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TIKI GARDENS LP!!! |
fatuhiva
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 634
From: Melbourne Beach, FL
|  Posted: 2002-09-16 2:11 pm Permalink
This is all I'm going to say on the matter at hand, and then I'm ignoring this thread.
The above rant of mine was, in my opinion, more about tiki price-whining in general on this board than the specific attack on my character.
However, since some more issues have been introduced, I shall respond:
#1) I *NEVER* said I was going to give CD's away for free to forum members or anyone else. I made an mp3 so people could hear some of it, and that's about it. If you read "free" into my last posts, you weren't paying attention- the people that would get a free copy from me would be someone like Tiki Gardener, who has a grandfathered-in right to have a copy. Other than that..? I don't get free mugs in the mail from forum members, so why...
#2) What is this fictious "tiki spirit" you hippies are coming up with? Does this have something to do with the Jimmy Buffet records you guys are spinning in your home tikibars? (repeat after me: AR-THUR LY-MAN)
Like I said earlier, I have been collecting tiki since the earliest days of its "resurgence". There was a time when I was one of three people bidding on tikimugs on Ebay- and that was after I had already built half my collection.
-I point this out *not* to claim I'm hipper than anyone else, or an innovator or any stupid crap like that- I point it out to back myself up when I say this "spirit" thing is something made up by the *NEWBIES* that wasn't ever a part of tiki-collecting.
Back in the day I don't remember anybody giving things away for free unless it was between close friends or something like that- trading was done with a serious tone, and tikis were absolutely COVETED before Ebay- when you'd be lucky to see a Leilani mug in a week of scouring.
The concept of "tiki" may have taken on a new-school free-love kinda vibe in recent days amongst drinkin/partyin types who are more interested in it as a social scene than a past cultural/artistic phenomenon, but in my eyes, it's still the same thing- a lost culture/fad that I study and collect- it has nothing to do with living in a commune hahaha
-my 2 cents worth
PS- TikiChris, I'll send it to you in London, no problem. That part of my template is a leftover from when I was selling larger items. Shoot me an email and we can set something up.
[ This Message was edited by: fatuhiva on 2002-09-16 14:21 ]
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Trader Woody
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 2301
From: Tiki Manor, Forest of Bowland,UK
| Posted: 2002-09-16 2:51 pm Permalink
Sorry you aren't going to read this Fatuhiva,
but your reply reads like a pile of horse-shit. In so many ways.
Sorry you don't like the 'Spirit of Tiki'. You equate it to hippies, I equate it to the early hardcore punk scene where tapes were traded and records were sold cheap. It's basic fraternity, decency and all that mushy stuff that you haven't got a handle on. While there's very few items of Tiki interest I can provide from the UK, I hope that Tiki Centralites could quite happily e-mail for a place to stay or for me to show them around if they come over here. Similarly, the offers I've had out of the blue have warmed the cockles of my heart. Can't put a $ on that.
This whole 'I'm into this first' (says who?) crap is pathetic, but it gives a good insight into the whole deal with the CD's. Of course, we're all newbies....ripe to be exploited.
Nobody asked for you to give away your frigging CD's for free. Just don't pretend you are doing us all a favor.
Trader Woody
And the Buffett crack was lame.
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TikiHula
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Apr 09, 2002
Posts: 505
From: SacTown
| Posted: 2002-09-16 2:55 pm Permalink
I think he's just sore that his tiki message board at tikimug.com never took off!!! 
_________________
"But why is the rum gone?!" -Capt. Jack Sparrow
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Tiki-Troll
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 17, 2002
Posts: 122
From: D-LAND FL
| Posted: 2002-09-16 3:11 pm Permalink
I think all of us on this board would agree that we love getting bargains. For some of us on a budget (like me and my hubby) getting a steal is the only way we ever get ANYTHING. But as an ebayer myself, I am getting very tired of all the pissing and moaning from people that think that anyone owes them anything for a bargian. I think the price of the tiki garden cd is incredibly generous, to even gripe is an insult to someone that probably has a mortgage and a car payment like the rest of us! Even offering the CD lowers the value of the LP that he paid top dollar for, something that I personally would never do. I love living in all my vintage madness, but sometimes when times get tough you have to sell a treasure to make the more mundane things in life...so he is actually doing you all a favor..dipping into his own "vintage savings account".
Also for anyone that might gripe about ebay, where else can you sit in you PJ's in the middle of the night, and bid on an amazing tiki item and get it shipped straight to your house. All this after SOMEONE ELSE searched it out, knew what it was, cleaned and photographed it, paid the ebay fees, packed and shipped and prayed it got there okay. You are paying for the labor too, and the people make the price. Ebay might be the greatest thing that has ever happened to the collecting community, I feel the price is a miniscule compared to the service and great items you can get!
do you think some of you might be bitter than someone has something cool that you don't? If you really feel that way then you'll never really appreciate the "finds" you might get. I don't think any of us are ever going to have the "definitive" collections, and even if we did...how much happier would that really make you? Chill out folks...its only tiki!
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Swanky
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 4807
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
| Posted: 2002-09-16 3:23 pm Permalink
I feel this is just ruffled feathers. I think there is plenty of "tiki spirit" here. Maybe just someone decided what that should mean for someone else.
And I think once some four-lettered words got used, it makes it a flame instantly here on the Internet.
I do also realize there were some Tiki Gardens feet stepped on. Maybe there should have been some negotiations behind closed doors.
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Double Crown
Tiki Centralite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 86 | Posted: 2002-09-16 3:42 pm Permalink
I don't even know where to begin. First of all, you have no idea who I am, so most of your post regarding my character is complete bulls**t. You don't have any idea how long I've been collecting tiki, and even if you did it has nothing to do with why I am upset about your Ebay auction. Just FYI though, I happen to <OWN> Double Crown Records with about 20 releases to date. I also put out a publication called The Continental Magazine which began about the same time as Tiki News. I own a complete collection of Tiki News fanzines, have a large mug collection, own a couple of dozen tiki/cocktail books, have a home bar and have a 5 foot tiki in my back yard. Shag has designed the covers for two of the releases on my label and I have contributed articles/reviews to Tiki News and Cool & Strange Music. I only post this information on this public forum because you have chosen to attack me <personally> in this public forum.
The reason I am so fired up about your Ebay auction is that you are, in essence, bootlegging the original LP. I don't care if it's rare, or that you paid $175 for the LP, to make copies and sell them for profit is bootlegging. Are you paying any royalties to the folks that put the original LP together? Have you made any effort to contact them to see if it could be released legitimately? Do you have their permission to do what you're doing? Should I start selling CD-R copies of all of my Martin Denny and Esquivel LP's so I can make back the money I spent on them? It's absolutely absurd to justify what you're doing by saying it cost you $175 for the LP and $245 for your CD burning equipment.
I don't f**kin' appreciate being called a hippie...if you even knew me you would know that I hate hippie bands/music/lifestyle. I get e-mails all the time because I slam hippie surf bands like The Mermen and I can't stand the Dead/Phish/Buffett etc.
Boy am I glad that this is the official Tiki Central message board and not www.tikimug.com. Why didn't you just post your e-bay messages to your own board...oh wait, nobody visits your board anymore ;-(
I really wanted to shut your auction down by notifying Ebay, but in the end decided not to because I figured that someone would get the CD and offer it to members of the list at cost. I think people are upset because they thought that's what you were going to do, not offer it for free, but offer it to anyone who wanted it at cost. $5/copy seems fair, it covers your cost and postage. Perhaps a CD-Tree would have been better so you wouldn't have to do all the work yourself. But it is very obvious that your intention was to make money off this.
I have no problem with making out of print music available free or at cost, but when people try to profit, well, as a label owner it makes my blood boil. You're not the only one - I just heard that Jack Diamond has begun selling CD-R's of hard to find exotic music and that pisses me off just as much (especially since he doesn't mention on his website that he is selling CD-R's!).
So I hope you're happy getting $16/CD in your auction (hope that covers postage!). To the 32 people that didn't win - hang tight. I'm sure someone will be kind enough to make this available to you all very soon.
Sean
Double Crown Records
oh please, you ass.
I've been in this tiki collecting scene before you grew your first goatee. If my main goal was trying to make a profit, I'd be selling my 800+ tikimugs on Ebay to guys like you.. oh wait, you're one of those guys that thinks every mug should be 50 cents.
I'm tired of "enthusiasts" like you who are constantly whining about prices and what people are selling/buying stuff for- I have news for you, its a capitalist society. Its based on money.
Nobody owes you anything, so if you have a problem with the price of something, I suggest you quit your record store job and do something that pays for more than your roommate-share of rent- dahmn!
And I'll tell ya one other thing- Trader Frank himself didn't work for free, and I don't plan to either.
And before you go telling me what my "profit" is- try factoring in the $175 bucks I paid for the record AND the $245 bucks I paid for the analog CD burning equipment.. and no, they DON'T turn up at a Salvation Army for 82 cents, and they don't give them away at any SF Hippie FreeStore hahahaha
[ This Message was edited by: fatuhiva on 2002-09-15 21:03 ]
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_________________
Sean
Double Crown Records
Surf~Instro~Rockabilly Music
http://www.doublecrownrecords.com
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hanford_lemoore
Grand Member (8 years) 
Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 1864
From: Tiki Central
| Posted: 2002-09-16 3:51 pm Permalink
Please no more name-calling. These days that's basically the difference between a flame and a thread.
~Hanford
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TikiHula
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Apr 09, 2002
Posts: 505
From: SacTown
| Posted: 2002-09-16 6:24 pm Permalink
Into every paradise a little rain must fall...
_________________
"But why is the rum gone?!" -Capt. Jack Sparrow
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TikiGardener
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 1359
From: 1st website dedicated to Tiki Gardens
| Posted: 2002-09-16 11:47 pm Permalink
Quote:
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[i]the people that would get a free copy from me would be someone like Tiki Gardener, who has a grandfathered-in right to have a copy.
[ This Message was edited by: fatuhiva on 2002-09-16 14:21 ]
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<<<Tiki Gardener notices his name above the din, and warily approaches>>>
Well, thanks, as I always tell my folks when they offer me something; " You're sure? Because, I'll never ask for it, but if you're offerin, I'll take it! "
And since I look like a hippie, I will be offering free copies of the cd to those people who have contributed to the Tiki Gardens Memorial. Once I have a cd burner, or Tangaroa will allow the use of his for this purpose.
I have a feeling that certain somones will be offering up copies for sale, whether they're at cost, well I wouldn't hold your breath. At least given what I've seen recently.
I have to admit to being on both sides of this argument, and I ask for a slight notching down of the pissing match.
Would it have beem better if the cd's had been offered up in a limited run at a set price ( with moderate profit for the time, equipment investment, etc )???
The bootlegging question, well Trader Frank, and Jo are both dead, their daughter died years ago, the Australians who bought
them out sold the park to Pinellas County, so, that combined with my fleeting knowledge of copyright laws that tells me this thing probably became public domain years ago.
Does all of that make it any less technically " bootlegging "? I dunno. Anybody have a clue on that one?
This all taps into a different question I've wrangled with. Namely- I started the Memorial as a non profit endevor to broaden the ( at the time ) limited apparent knowledge available about this cool cool Tiki land. I've had plenty of tres cool product ideas, but always put the idea out of the picture. Who knows, maybe if the ultimate product idea pops into my head, I'll follow through, and offer up a number for first comes first serves on Tiki Central.
But who knows. Right now, as I've discovered another 50 megs of webspace, I don't have to try and think about how to pay for the Memorials web presence.
And it would be nice to have the site generating money so I could have deep pockets to buy all the Tiki Gardens stuff that pops up on ebay, and other places, but, I'd rather have people dig up their memoribilia and send me images or stories of their Tiki gardens Memories.
Sorry to ramble, and perhaps I've not made any sense, but I really hate to see everybody getting their panties in a knot over this.
Double Crown, send me yer email addie, and I'll make arrangements to send you a cassette dub ( I don't have a burner ) once I get my tiki mits on a copy of the Disc.
I hope the Gardener ( who happens to look like a hippie ) has balanced his way through this little Typhoon, and he invites all of you to take a slow stroll through the Memorial, accompanied by the Tiki Gardens theme ( graciously provided by Fatuhiva ).
And reflect upon what was a great place, and upon what a great place we have here.
Tiki Gardener
( Trying to unstir the pot for a change )
The Tiki Gardens Memorial
http://www.exotic-tiki-gardens.com
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TikiGardener
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 1359
From: 1st website dedicated to Tiki Gardens
| Posted: 2002-09-17 12:00 am Permalink
<<< The capitalist hippie, now grabs a bottle of Meyers and ambles to a safe corner>>>
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the75stingray
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 446
From: Dayton, Ohio
| Posted: 2002-09-17 1:35 pm Permalink
Ahhh, TIKI...just another four letter word.
Interesting threaded debate.
Staying in the "TIKI SPIRIT"...
P.S.
"Now lets not resort to childish name calling, right Mr. Poopie-pants?"
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TikiMikey
Tiki Socialite
Joined: May 24, 2002
Posts: 179
From: Dallas, TX
| Posted: 2002-09-17 2:47 pm Permalink
Well, just as the smoke was clearing, eBay declares the auction null and void. Now NOBODY gets one. 
Dear (bidder)
Please be aware that auction:
2138972536 - TIKI GARDENS LP RECORD on CD! Vintage Record in which you were a bidding participant, has been ended early by eBay as it appears to offer an item or contains material which is prohibited for sale on eBay. Because the auction was ended early, you as a bidder are not required to complete the transaction.
If you would like to review our listing guidelines for a better understanding of our auction policies, they can be found at: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-list.html
Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns you may have on our existing policies.
Regards,
Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
ebay
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SugarCaddyDaddy
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jun 03, 2002
Posts: 1500
From: Huntington Beach, California
| Posted: 2002-09-17 3:23 pm Permalink
Quote:
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eBay declares the auction null and void. |
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Wow! Mom was right when she yelled at us saying: "If all of you can't play nice, then nobody gets to play at all!"
Oh well, I'll just have to enjoy the mp3 fatuhiva posted and just loop it over and over and over and.....
SugarCaddyDaddy
_________________
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Double Crown
Tiki Centralite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 86 | Posted: 2002-09-17 3:29 pm Permalink
Wow, I guess somebody else felt the same way about this auction. I didn't notify the Ebay police because I was hoping one of the recipients would be willing to start a CD tree or offer the CD to Tiki Central members at cost. I am sorry for using foul language in my previous e-mail, but I was (and still am) a little upset at somebody slamming me in public, without knowing anything about me.
Sean
On 2002-09-17 14:47, TikiMikey wrote:
Well, just as the smoke was clearing, eBay declares the auction null and void. Now NOBODY gets one.
Dear (bidder)
Please be aware that auction:
2138972536 - TIKI GARDENS LP RECORD on CD! Vintage Record in which you were a bidding participant, has been ended early by eBay as it appears to offer an item or contains material which is prohibited for sale on eBay. Because the auction was ended early, you as a bidder are not required to complete the transaction.
If you would like to review our listing guidelines for a better understanding of our auction policies, they can be found at: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-list.html
Please feel free to contact us with any questions or concerns you may have on our existing policies.
Regards,
Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)
ebay
[/quote]
_________________
Sean
Double Crown Records
Surf~Instro~Rockabilly Music
http://www.doublecrownrecords.com
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inkylouise
Grand Member (first year) 
Joined: May 18, 2002
Posts: 522
From: las vegas
| Posted: 2002-09-17 3:55 pm Permalink
Now I got no real Tiki Gardens, no peace on the planet, no tiki spirit & no CD either....
I've gotta go mix a drink.
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