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Tiki Central Forums Creating Tiki Tiki Carving I think it has reached a point where it bears discussion...
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I think it has reached a point where it bears discussion...
Humuhumu
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Joined: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 3691
From: San Francisco
Posted: 2005-11-14 12:54 pm   Permalink

Well said, Tipsy McStagger & purple jade. And yes! Purple jade gets credit for "Chicklet teeth" -- I knew I'd picked that up from someone else, and a TC search wasn't yielding it -- thanks for the memory jog, pj! For those who might be skimming instead of reading, I didn't say "Chicklet" in the context of this discussion, it was on a different thread.

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McTiki
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Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 1962
From: Sunny Florida
Posted: 2005-11-14 2:27 pm   Permalink

I don't disagree with the effort to preserve the "classic" Tiki forms and carvings that the masters here continue to motivate us with, in fact I appreciate the fact that there are purists out there that "only" carve the traditional. That's for them (their niche in this Ohana)and while I wish I possesed an eighth of their talent, reality keeps me at the level that I am at for now. As far as posting works in the future...I am sceptical now of being quite judged by the purists. I do try to maintain some element of polynesian flare to my carvings but I guess unless it's a Lono, or a Marq, or something from the books, it isn't respected as an attempt at the art or spirit of Tiki.

Can't beleive I jumped off the bleachers but, I'm Irish and this is my 2 cents.

Respectfully,

McTiki


 
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Basement Kahuna
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Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 3601
From: Jawja Province, Isle of North America
Posted: 2005-11-14 3:28 pm   Permalink

Those are the wellsprings... And everything from the most traditional tikis to the ones that are the most far fetched from the golden age like the Kahiki greeter, the Tiki Gardens Lono and the Beachcomber "Blockhead" still drew from those wellsprings and had a very discernable feel and flavor and, most importantly GREAT diversity and a style all their own. There was no cookie cutter element. But one would have to admit there is a cookie cutter element or little polynesian pop or South Seas at all in not all -but a lot of stuff nowadays, or at least not easily discernable. And I'm speaking of the whole Tiki world at large as James said. And all I'm saying is I think that stems from a mere lack of knowledge of tiki-past. An evolutionary cutoff, if you will. A small amount of "current" has become the "past, present, and future". When you walk into a tiki bar, don't you want to feel like you're walking into a (tiki) bar? I couldn't imaging anyone walking into the Mai Kai for the first time and not being completely awestruck and inspired, to say the least.

 
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finkdaddy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 2061
From: Wisconsin
Posted: 2005-11-14 4:01 pm   Permalink

I am completely awe-struck each and every time I see an update to BK's thread. His traditional-style carvings stir something in me and makes me long for something larger that I will probably never have or even understand. Benzart's carvings do exactly the same thing for me and, as he said himself, they are usually not traditional at all. I pray that neither would ever decide to put down their tools.

I don't really know what I'm trying to say here. I know I had a point, but I lost it half way through my run-on sentences.

I'd also like to say that if you held a gun to my head and said, "carve something traditional", I wouldn't be able to do it even though I would love to.

I love Tiki Central. This whole thread makes me sad for some reason. Sorry if this makes no sense.

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[ This Message was edited by: finkdaddy 2005-11-14 17:09 ]


 
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PalmCityTiki
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Joined: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 229
From: Palm City, Florida ( no really)
Posted: 2005-11-14 4:17 pm   Permalink

I had removed the pics from my post.

I know its silly to so ... but I just wanted to show how we would end up with if we were only purists. My stuff doesn't fit easliy into the realm of True tiki, but when a child can see my stuff, recognize the intent and still enjoy the experience the effect... then i feel as though Maybe, just maybe i have sparked another flame to possibly pass the torch onto and that person might be the prodigal son or daughter that elevates the Tribe. I am not offended or upset, because I actually like what BK is saying and the intent was well taken. However I felt that removing the pics for short time would spark more people to voice themselves and just possibly build a fire for everyone to produce better from themselves. Only time will tell and personally I like what is happening in this forum. Someone needed to ignite the passion and feel that this is just the post to do it.

To everyone.... keep voicing your thoughts and let the wood chips fly.






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Basement Kahuna
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Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 3601
From: Jawja Province, Isle of North America
Posted: 2005-11-14 4:39 pm   Permalink

If the thread is making people sad then I'll take it down. Nothing is that important around here...

 
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congatiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 2539
From: wisconsin northwoods
Posted: 2005-11-14 4:41 pm   Permalink

BK....understanding a little better where you were
going...it is a good topic....I think the family is
becoming happy again.....plus...little spats are always
kinda fun to clear the air. Love is all we need.


 
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finkdaddy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 2061
From: Wisconsin
Posted: 2005-11-14 4:46 pm   Permalink

Don't take it down! It's good to open up discussions like this, and just because it makes me uncomfortable doesn't mean it should go away. I'm not a democrat or anything.

Sorry to all you democrats, I was just trying to lighten up my previous reply.
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Basement Kahuna
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Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 3601
From: Jawja Province, Isle of North America
Posted: 2005-11-14 4:58 pm   Permalink

I brought some of the old Tiki Postcard and Vintage Tiki art forums up on General Tiki again...fits the end to where I was headed..and those always inspired me...The first tiki thing I ever collected...the aesthetic in those old Tiki postcards brought me into the fold..inspired me to create the Kon Tiki Paradise Room..and find Tiki Central...and say "THAT's the art form I wanna learn..I wanna carve like those guys could", (and learn who those guys were!). P.S. Amen, Palm, and you scared me...

[ This Message was edited by: Basement Kahuna 2005-11-14 17:00 ]


 
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hewey
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Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4284
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2005-11-14 5:29 pm   Permalink

I forgot to say earlier that I have Anthony Meyer "Oceanic Art" book too. Hell, that thing makes the BoT look like a short story. For those of you who havent seen it is 638 pages of traditional art from "Oceania", with a museum like approach. Massive pages, full colour, very authoritive. Again, this is where I agree with BK that it is good to look at this stuff for inspiration. I dont necessarily think we should just accept everything in there because it is "authentic"

Man, some of the stuff in there is pretty much a goofy smile cut into some wood. If it was posted on here (judging by this post) some people wouldnt think it was appropriate or "true" tiki. What an irony. The true island art isnt really true tiki art? Yes I am being pedantic and anal myself here, but I think the point is valid.

And while Im going, I strongly DONT want to carve traditional art. I dont feel comfortable with copying someones elses culture (and religious items in many cases). I wouldnt play with a crucifix in pop culture art either, so it goes both ways.

But again, I do agree with BK we should continue to challenge ourselves as artists, and look at a variety of different influences as we do our thing. I will get ideas from traditional stuff, but have no desire to faithfully recreate them myself.

One last point (I ramble dont I?). Some people have taken the "people shouldnt get offended, theyre too sensitive" line. "Theyre artists, they need to have a thick hide". Most of us are just posting on here because we love to carve/paint and share it with like minded people. Realistically, bugger all of us are going to launch into full time art as a career. Yes, the real world is big and mean and nasty and will criticise our art. But, TC should be about supporting artists, not making them feel unwelcomed. If it was just a single artist getting this vibe, then maybe they are being a little too sensitive. But when a number of artists are smarting REALLY badly, youve got to wonder what the hell is goin on. Especially when one of them has been carving since before i was born, and is revered with an almost god-like status on here.
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hewey
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Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4284
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2005-11-14 5:33 pm   Permalink

I agree that this is a important discussion to have too. The positive thing to take out of this is that there are lots of people who feel passionate about tiki art, and that IS A GOOD THING.
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rodeotiki
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Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 1513
From: calgary
Posted: 2005-11-14 5:45 pm   Permalink

After reading and re-reading everything again I can say that I see the intent that Bk had put forth. But I didn't like the way that it came across. ****this is just my opinion***** Too me Bk you came across as all knowing and better than anyone else because of your great passion.I am sure that I and others feel that we are equally as passionate. They way that you asked for the "old salts" to join in made me as a someone less experienced feel looked down on. Everyone can disagree with me and what not but I also feel sad by this thread.

[ This Message was edited by: rodeotiki 2005-11-14 17:52 ]


 
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GMAN
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Joined: Jul 14, 2005
Posts: 2999
From: My Island
Posted: 2005-11-14 5:48 pm   Permalink

Yes, sad indeed.

 
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teaKEY
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Posts: 3683
From: The thumb !
Posted: 2005-11-14 6:09 pm   Permalink

Thanks a million back BK but I see things on both sides of the fence here and I sometimes don't want to type a BOT sized log and I understand very well.

I have an art class that will not see tiki as high art and I agree. I don't see tiki as "high art" but I see it as great art. Something, I'm attracted to very much. My teacher would see anything here a waste of supplies and then to hear it from another tiki guy in a way.

Tradition is not the highest tiki form of tiki. I can see tradition art in a dusty book (and have read many times) but I choose TC to be surprised with imagination and creativity. The numbers don't lie. The greatest tiki art and the people doing them is not traditional, based off it yes, and thats what tiki is. Bosko isn't close and yet he is a tiki carver. Your a tiki carver if you carve with a tiki frame of mind. And he dose

I see tiki that I wouldn't do and a few that turn my stomach (one guys actually) but I see the good in it all. There is always something that I say nice about each piece and I'm not sugar coating it. Just looking at the positive side. I should tell them the negatives (which creates growth and perspective)too but I like to be positive here because TC is a positive place that I come back to each day.
I guess that if I was to start to give a word of advice I will start with BK. I wrote earlier that we should try our hand at traditional. BK, you will be more more open if you try a nontraditional. Maybe you have, maybe its been too long since. I can't wait to fight you back with a flying kick next to my tiki creation (in photos only) People do believe in you greatly because I probably would have not got more that three post after I wrote what you said.

You presented a "problem" (tiki style) and that is where I think people have backed you. Now we need a agreeable solution. And here is mine. More helpful hints to people that could use that extra push whether or not that choose to use. And , say I do a tiki that is not "your traditional" and I know this, which I would, cause I'm not stupid and need to read more, I should say so. I will say, this is my creation called tiki although, not south seas tiki. s.s.tiki for short.

PS as for keeping tiki alive, create and as for keeping traditional alive look it a book if you choose. Their there. As like Benzart I'm done [b]here[b] too.

-teaKEY


 
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teaKEY
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Posts: 3683
From: The thumb !
Posted: 2005-11-14 6:15 pm   Permalink

one last thing, sorry, I hate it more when someone edits there message. You said it, it in the open , leave it and move on.

 
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