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Tiki Central Forums ╗ ╗ Tiki Drinks and Food ╗ ╗ The Mai Tai, a component study in Mixology
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The Mai Tai, a component study in Mixology
Scottes
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Joined: Feb 18, 2007
Posts: 490
From: A Little North Of Boston
Posted: 2007-03-02 5:05 pm   Permalink

I love orange liquers, so I'm very intrigued by the Senior Curacao. I know they're not going to be exactly the same, but any idea how they compare to Cointreau or Patron Citronage in orange flavor, sweetness, and quality of taste?


For the Whaler's Rum, any close approximation in another brand? Or can you describe it - sweet or mild? complex or simple? harsh or moderately smooth? quality or mediocre?



 
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Quince_at_Dannys
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Joined: Mar 29, 2004
Posts: 161
From: Command Records International HQ
Posted: 2007-03-04 01:17 am   Permalink

Compared to Cointreau, Senior Curacao is less boozy and a little sweeter; you don't get the "burn" like you do from Cointreau. Whereas Cointreau is a bit dryer and more sippable, Senior Curacao is equally complex and lends itself better to mixing. In a Mai Tai, I find Cointreau to be a little too dry.

Whalers is not a complex rum--it's very sweet and actually pretty mediocre on its own. It does mix very well, however, and can balance out woodier tones in Martinique Rum. As an alternative, Goslings has a similar character in drinks--I like it better on its own but I prefer Whalers in the Mai Tai.


 
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Hiphipahula
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Joined: May 27, 2006
Posts: 2426
From: The Valley! Female, leo,fav color pink.
Posted: 2007-03-04 10:06 pm   Permalink

I love Orange Liqueurs too but not particularly those mentioned above what about Grand Marnier?
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johnnyfootballhero
Member

Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 8
Posted: 2007-06-10 10:07 pm   Permalink

Quote:

Quince, how does the Senior brand compare to the Marie Brizard orange curacao?


Hi. I bought a bottle of Marie Brizard cura├žao eleven years ago and a bottle of Senior & Co. cura├žao two weeks ago after reading this thread. I doubt I can compare the two well with that much time in between. I am in a new apartment, though, 85-95┬░ this summer, and do not know whether it would help or hurt to put the Senior & Co. cura├žao in the refrigerator. I would appreciate any advice and of course contribute more to this conversation if there is interest.

Thanks lots.


 
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Chip and Andy
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Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 2211
From: Corner table, Molokai Lounge, Mai-Kai.
Posted: 2007-06-11 05:04 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2007-06-10 22:07, johnnyfootballhero wrote:
...a bottle of Marie Brizard curacao eleven years ago and a bottle of Senior & Co. curacao two weeks ago after reading this thread. ... and do not know whether it would help or hurt to put the Senior & Co. curacao in the refrigerator...



Aloha and welcome to TC. It always nice to see new names on the list.

As to keeping in the fridge.... It won't hurt.

It will only help a little bit, ultimately.

Most of the liqueur's have a relatively high sugar content and that is what leads to thier demise. Once you open the bottle, the 'process' has started and you have anywhere from a few months to a few years before the produce turns on you. Some bottles will turn on you in just a few months while others can make it three or more years after opening. There is no real set time on any of them, you just have to keep your eyes and nose on them.

The 'process' works like this: Ingredients have both sugar and alcohol in them. Alcohol keeps stuff from growing and eating the sugar. Bottle is sealed and placed on shelf where you buy it and take it home to put on your shelf, but only after you have broken the seal. Now, with seal broken, alcohol starts to evaporate (so called Angel's Share) and will eventually get to a point that is low enough a concentrate that stuff can now move in and grow in your bottle. End result, bottle 'breaks' and stuff inside goes bad. A 'Break' can look like fine webbing floating in the mix, an unusual color, an unusual head on the mix, bad smells, bad taste, all generally akin to moldy old bread.

Now, for that eleven year old bottle of curacao, I wouldn't trust that bottle. If it still smells like curacao and the color is still bright and clear you are probably fine. But! I would sniff that bottle every time I open it just to make sure. And if it is good, get to making some Mai-Tais so that your ingredients don't sit around neglected so long!


 
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johnnyfootballhero
Member

Joined: Jun 10, 2007
Posts: 8
Posted: 2007-06-11 08:43 am   Permalink

Thanks! I shall move it if only to chill it.

No worries about the bottle eleven years ago: I last saw it eleven years ago, or ten and a half. I brought it up only because it was the first cura├žao I had, and someone asked about it.


 
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telescopes
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Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 567
From: Palm Springs
Posted: 2007-06-24 8:08 pm   Permalink

No one's really discussed this yet, but what do you think about substituting Mount Gay rums for the Martinique? Mount Gay is so much easier to find. And if you do substitute Mount Gay, what particular Jamaicans do you match with the Barbados? I've tried the standard Mount Gay with Myers. The result was fair, especially when fortified with orange and pineaple juice, 1 ounce of each. Yeh, yeh, I know... I've tried the Mount Gay Sugar Cane rum, which works extremely well in a Shark's Tooth, but it gave me a foul start in the Mai Tai. Any help?
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telescopes
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Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 567
From: Palm Springs
Posted: 2007-06-24 8:33 pm   Permalink

Well, while I am waiting for a reply, tamed down the Mount Gay Sugar cane by pairing it with 1/2 of each Appleton V/X and Myers. I did the two bottle sniffer thing. So, by blending two jamacians and a barbados I am now left with the question as to just how important the martinique thing really is. Could it be that the Mai Tai is really the child of a Jamaican and the Martinique thing is an adoptive father for a drink made an orphan by the winds of time?

 
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Chip and Andy
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Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 2211
From: Corner table, Molokai Lounge, Mai-Kai.
Posted: 2007-06-25 04:57 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2007-06-24 20:33, telescopes wrote:..Could it be that the Mai Tai is really the child of a Jamaican and the Martinique thing is an adoptive father for a drink made an orphan by the winds of time?



A very eloquent way of putting it. And proably very close to the truth.

As to you question of subbing Mount Gay, I like Appelton VX and Mount Gay Eclipse in a Mai-tai, both of which are staples at my local suppliers and both about $30 a bottle.

I can't recommend Myers for a Mai-tai because I don't recommend Myers for anything. And, the only reason I don't recomend it for anything is becasue I don't like the stuff. There is nothing wrong with it and many people here call it their favorite rum. If you like it, keep pouring it. Just none for me, thanks.

And, just for experimentations sake.... Try using Amarreto in place of the Orgeat when using the Meyers. Amerreto is not really almond, but the aroma is still exotic enough that it might help the Meyers. Of course I could be way wrong........


 
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The Gnomon
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Joined: May 01, 2007
Posts: 1293
From: MD-DC-VA
Posted: 2007-06-25 09:39 am   Permalink

I use Mount Gay Eclipse for my mighty Mai Tais.



This one was made with a jigger of Mount Gay Eclipse and a jigger of Coruba, plus a shot of Appleton Estate 12 year for the topper.



I use Bols Orange Curašao, home-made orgeat (in this case my Emergency Orgeat Syrup) and home-made, kick-ass rock candy syrup.



Shaved ice, of course. Shaken ruthlessly, afterwards poured over the rocks.



These days I'm using key limes 'cause they are currently available (Washington DC area). When they disappear, I'll go back to Persian/Tahiti limes.








[ This Message was edited by: The Gnomon 2007-06-25 09:41 ]


 
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telescopes
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 567
From: Palm Springs
Posted: 2007-06-25 1:14 pm   Permalink

Thanks for responding so quickly about the use of Barbados rums. I'm going to get some MG Eclipse tonight. The nice thing about Barbados rums is their availability. Sandiagodan maintains that he has bought me an extra bottle of St. James, but I've yet to see the scoundrel anywhere. His excuse is that it makes a bitter Mai Tai.

Anyway, its nice to hear that the Barbados substitution is a viable alternative: And, if it is in all probability that the purpose of the Martinique Rum isto add a certain element of say nuttiness to the flavor of the Mai Tai - one that was lost when the 17 year old
W@N Jamaican became unavailable, then it is our role to find a substitution - one that isn't necessarily limited to the Martinique.

Trader Vic's uses its own blend that may or may not be an authentic heir to the origonal. That being stated, the modern bar tender's role is not to be limited to ingedients printed in a third or fourth revision of a recipe from TV's, but rather to find those ingredients that best recreate what the intent of the origonal was. Chip and Andy seem to have a fantastic nose for this and have done a great job describing the bouquets and flavors of those ingredients that constitute the core of the Mai Tai. On this discussion page, you start with the small and work your way to the main attraction. Now here is a challenge that can take this discussion to the next level.

Try deconstructing (working backwards) the aromas, flavors, and tastes of an origonal Mai Tai or one that is as close to the origonal as possible, and then match today's shelf ingredients in a manner that reproduces that sensation.

For instance, what did the Trader smell and taste in his orgeat, curacao, and rums when the final product was concocted. What do we have today that approximates those sensations?

What do we have today that is easily available to approximate those sensations?

Remember, if one wants only authenticity in regards to Polynesian life, one can spend the money to hop on a plane and go to Tahiti. However, if one wishes to escape only for just an evening, then you only need to find a local Poly Palace.

Accessibility is a key component in terms of defining the tiki ideal. So, what is there today that can help most of us have that accessible Mai Tai? Remember, even TV changed his recipes as the whims of accessibility dictated change.

Thank you, and happy mixing!


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Spike
Member

Joined: Jun 25, 2007
Posts: 1
From: Oregon
Posted: 2007-06-25 10:50 pm   Permalink

I am brand new to this forum. I have enjoyed this Mai-Tai thread very much and would like to add my 2 cents to this subject.
I have a physical reaction to dark rums and usually avoid them whenever possible. Sort of an alergy thing. Also my wife is on a sort of low-carb quest at this time which severely limits drinks of the high-sugar sort. Today I picked up a quart of Baja Bob's Maui Madness mixer w/Splenda and a bottle of Meyer's white rum. It made for a tasty low-carb drink that we both enjoyed very much. In fact I am drinking one as I write this post. I am looking forward to trying some made from scratch Mai-Tais ASAP. I do have to aquire the basic ingredients and some type of a press but am very much looking forward to sampling a well-built Mai-Tai. Please forgive my pedestrian tastes.


 
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The Gnomon
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Joined: May 01, 2007
Posts: 1293
From: MD-DC-VA
Posted: 2007-06-26 07:16 am   Permalink

I just visited Trader Vic's Gourmet ľ Drinks Recipes and saw this painful sight:

Quote:
The Famous MAI TAI
4 oz. Trader Vic's Mai Tai Mix
2 oz. fine dark rum
juice of 1 fresh lime

Fill a double old fashioned glass with cubed ice and add the ingredients above. Stir well and garnish with fresh mint sprig, pineapple spear, cherry and slice of lime. Substitute 2 oz. of bourbon for the rum, and you've made a HONI HONI.



Then it went downhill from there...

Truth in advertising?

If you go to the Mai Tai Mix page you're treated to this claim:

Quote:
MAI TAI MIX LITER

Created half a century ago, but as bracingly contemporary as ever, this is The Trader's original formula - and the most requested tropical drink in the world. We've done our homework to recreate the famous Mai Tai of our restaurants, combining the flavors of oranges and almonds and formulating a mixture that stands up proudly to cubed or crushed ice.



I don't know if there is a new mix that replaces the TV Mai Tai mix long available on grocery store shelves, but if it is, it not only bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original formula, it isn't anything like any of TV's recipe adjustments either.

Does anyone know what's up with this outrageous claim?

Also at the site you can buy "official" Mai Tai glasses and cocktail shakers.



TV Mai Tai Glass $40.00 for a set of 6 (damn!)

TV Shaker with Mask Insignia $49.95 each (double damn!!)

I wonder what Jules would think if he was alive to see this.


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Squad 701
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 30
From: Dublin, Ireland.
Posted: 2007-06-26 07:34 am   Permalink

What exactly does the 4oz represent, as the Curacao, Orgeat and Rock Candy only amount to 1-1.5oz.
Obviously the idea is to bloat the drink to a more customer friendly amount.


 
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cheekytiki
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Joined: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 1091
From: The Haole Hut, London, UK
Posted: 2007-06-26 07:42 am   Permalink

Well you've got no worries with the TV MaiTai mix in Europe as we can't have it due to it containing Genetically modified Corn syrup, not sure if they use it behind the bar though?

 
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