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save our tiki history
Dr.TikiMojo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 465
From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted: 2006-11-15 5:07 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-11-15 12:55, GatorRob wrote:
Dr. TikiMojo, I hear ya, and I'm totally in agreement with you with regards to saving historic places. Really I am. But I'm still very doubtful that it's in the best financial interests of the business owners, especially when the time comes to sell. If the Thorntons couldn't find a buyer for the Mai-Kai property because it was protected, we'd all be happy that the Mai-Kai property was saved. But would we all feel so good about it if the Thorntons went bankrupt as a result? I'm playing devil's advocate here. Asking the hard questions.



Thanks again Gator for your interest and participation, even as my devil's advocate!
I hate to sound like the "bad guy" now but honestly when it comes to saving historically important sites it's a matter of "Social Responsibility" not who your friends are.
No one is going to "go bankrupt" from being listed as a Historical Landmark, people go bankrupt from poor judgement in financial dealings! Honestly, I don't know the Thornton's or how long they/their family have owned the Mai Kai but if it's been that long I don't think they bought it with the thought, "Hey in 20 or 30 years we can sell this place and make MILLIONS!". The only limit on their possible buyers are the people interested in owning a Famous Tiki Restaurant not a piece of property in a great "location" to be bulldozed for something new.

Quote:

On 2006-11-15 12:58, thejab wrote:
In California, here are the guidelines for historic landmark listing. The Hanalei certainly didn't qualify.

And the results of Federal Listing (highlighting added):

Owners have no obligation to open their properties to the public, to restore them or even to maintain them, if they choose not to do so.



I really don't think that these programs can help stop what happened to the Hanalei, Sam's, and Royal Hawaiian, as they didn't with the Kahiki.

I would support a Mai-Kai listing if the owners wished to see it happen, if only to get them some publicity.


[ This Message was edited by: thejab 2006-11-15 13:07 ]
[/quote]

Hey Jab,
Many of these locations I'm not sure of the age of the building but I for one felt that the properties we've discussed so far fell into some of the qualifications. The A Frame Architecture of many of the buildings for one. I've gone through my "Book of Tiki" trying to find more ages and dates but I don't think Sven even imagined at the time of writing how rapid the decline of what remains of our Tiki Culture.

Owners have no obligation to open their properties to the public, to restore them or even to maintain them, if they choose not to do so.[/quote]
Ah, but this is where the lawyers come in.... while the above statement is true the unwritten truth is that they may not "ALTER IT FROM IT'S ORIGINAL LOOK - UNLESS TO RESTORE SOMETHING BACK TO A MORE HISTORIC LOOK OR AND ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DEMOLISH IT".

THAT IS WHAT WE SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR!


 
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tikipedia
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 25, 2004
Posts: 490
From: San Diego
Posted: 2006-11-15 9:42 pm   Permalink

Sad to say, but I think a lot of the pessimists in this thread are on target, with respects to preserving our ever vanishing Tiki institutions.

A few years back, I was involved with a group trying to save the
USS Cabot, a famed WWII aircraft carrier. This ship was sold to the Spanish Navy in the 1960s, and was in an almost unmodified state. It had a storied history, and was a true historical treasure. This ship was placed on the National Register of Historical Places, was designated as a project of the Save America's Treasures organization, as well as several other listings. But the museum that obtained the Cabot from Spain went belly-up, and the Cabot lingered in legal limbo for nearly a decade. At one point, when the ship languished in a shipyard in Texas, I wrote a letter to the then Governor George Bush, asking him to provide some state designation to hold off auctioning the ship until more money could be raised to pay off the numerous bills and Coast Guard fees the Cabot had accrued. But nothing worked, and the ship was sold to the breakers and scrapped in 2000. It was an exhausting effort trying to raise money, and fighting in court to hold off the sale of the ship.

It is EXTREMELY difficult to preserve historical sites. In reality, a lot of the historical designations are of relatively little value and are more symbolic in nature. A few local communities do have some stringent protections for buildings that meet (typically) a narrow set of criteria. But beyond that, the only guarantee is if some enthusiast or consortium buys the place. Also, a lot of local governments are looking at ways to raise tax revenue, and are often pro-development. This puts vintage tiki joints at even more peril. Few governments will recognize most post-WWII architecture as historic. It does happen in rare instances, but is the exception rather than the rule. And even if you do get historical protection, you need a constant influx of money to maintain the place.

_________________
The Tikipedia
www.tikipedia.com


[ This Message was edited by: tikipedia 2006-11-16 07:58 ]


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Dr.TikiMojo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 465
From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted: 2006-11-15 10:43 pm   Permalink

Yes, Thank you Tikipedia!

Maybe I wasn't making that point clear in my efforts to explain why we need to FIGHT FOR OUR TIKI HISTORY!
You explained it perfectly.
NO AMOUNT OF WORD OF MOUTH AND PATRONIZING A BAR, RESTAURANT OR HOTEL IS GOING TO SAVE IT FROM CHANGE OR DEMOLITION!

We need to get sites registered, we need to contact our congressmen, state and local governments, create public awareness, become involved in historic preservation, if needed form a TRUST and find financial backers, find every way to make your voice heard about WHY these sites are important, and of course do what ever you can to support their businesses!

If you're not willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SAVE OUR BELOVED TIKI SITES then please don't post your complaints and sorrows when they're gone! Because like it or not, if you look at the current trend, they are going!


 
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GatorRob
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 20, 2004
Posts: 1771
From: 3 hrs 33 mins to paradise
Posted: 2006-11-16 11:29 am   Permalink

Here's an interesting article from 2001 that relates to historic preservation of not-so-old buildings:



The Atlantic Monthly Feb 2001

Tiki wars: how do we distinguish the historic from the sentimental? Curtis, Wayne C.


Last June, I had dinner at the Kahiki Supper Club, in Columbus, Ohio. The food was memorable, although not necessarily in a good way. Some meals were served in carved pineapples; others crackled with eyebrow-singeing flames. (The Columbus Dispatch once wrote that "the Kahiki is one of the few restaurants in Columbus in which food can injure you.") From time to time a nearby table would order up a four-person flaming drink, which was delivered amid the sound of gongs by an exotic "mystery girl"--a ritual that, according to the menu, "symbolizes an ancient sacrifice, which reportedly stopped volcanoes from erupting."

I entered the Kahiki, said to be modeled after a New Guinea men's meetinghouse, between a pair of twenty-foot-high Easter Island idols with flames spouting from their heads. Inside, after crossing a low bridge and passing through a damp grotto, I wandered into a series of dining rooms filled with thatched "dining huts." The main room, a conical structure with a towering ceiling, was presided over by an eighty-foot-high tiki goddess with glowing red eyes and a fireplace for a mouth.

No surface was unmolested. In and around the dining huts were totems, carved masks, woven grass mats, parts of ersatz shipwrecks, lamps fashioned from seashells, fountains spewing luridly tinted water, adult beverages served in skull-shaped mugs, and an assortment of lavishly varnished blowfish. Localized "thunderstorms," complete with "lightning," passed through every twenty minutes or so, drenching the tract of rain forest outside my dining-hut window.

Built in 1961, the Kahiki wasn't the first tiki restaurant in the nation (that honor goes to Don the Beachcomber's, in Hollywood, which opened in 1934), but it may have been the most elaborate. Last June, The New York Times dubbed the Kahiki "the grandest and best-preserved of a nearly extinct form of culinary recreation." Otto von Stroheim, the publisher of Tiki News, a newsletter devoted to Polynesian pop, once called the Kahiki "the first or second most important tiki restaurant in the world." In 1997 the Kahiki joined the nearly 70,000 other properties listed on the National Register of Historic Places. "I don't like to do firsts and biggests and bests and lasts," Beth Savage, an architectural historian who evaluates properties for the register, told me. "But I can say with certainty that this is the only tiki listed."

I had gone to Columbus last summer because Walgreens, the drugstore chain, had recently announced its intention to build a 15,000-square-foot store on the property occupied by the Kahiki. This plan, of course, would require the demolition of the restaurant, a fact that did not go unnoticed locally. A grassroots group (it preferred the appellation "grass-skirt group") circulated an e-mail petition to save the Kahiki. The Dispatch was filled with passionate letters from heartbroken residents. The newspaper editorialized against the closing.

All to no avail. It's an honor to be listed on the National Register, but, as with the social register, inclusion suggests more power than it actually confers. On August 26 the Kahiki served its final meal and then locked its hexagonal front door for good. The building was demolished in November.

I realize that I'm hardly alone in saying I hate it when drugstore chains raze cool old buildings and replace them with boxy, harshly lit stores selling eyeliner and blister packs of batteries. But I found myself mustering a bit of sympathy for Walgreens in this fight. The Kahiki was, after all, a fake Polynesian restaurant that served mediocre, dangerous food and sat on an unlovely commercial strip at the frayed edge of the city. Its loss didn't really rank with the destruction of a Frank Lloyd Wright masterpiece or a Civil War battlefield. Then I called Nathalie Wright, the National Register coordinator at the Ohio Historic Preservation Office. She was the person responsible for nominating the Kahiki for the National Register, and when I asked her what the big deal was, she made an articulate case.

Placed in its socio-historical context, Wright argued, the Kahiki vividly recalled a time when America inhabited a sort of South Seas Camelot. Songs from the movie musical South Pacific (1958) were on everyone's lips, Hawaii had joined the union as the fiftieth state just two years before (1959), and Elvis was starring in Blue Hawaii (1961). If historic buildings serve as cairns that mark our path as we march resolutely forward through time, we should preserve places like the Kahiki in the event we ever want to go back.

Furthermore, Wright said, tiki bars were among the original theme restaurants, dating from a time when Americans began to evince an apparently lasting appetite for the artificial over the real. And with Mount Vernon, for example, now sharing space on the National Register with the likes of the Kahiki, it becomes harder for American families to distinguish the genuine from its simulacrum. On a wall near the Kahiki's men's room I found a 1995 article from Fortune in which Michael Eisner, the CEO of Disney, who went to college nearby, revealed that he had attended his first drive-in movie in Columbus and enjoyed meals at the Kahiki. If there's a better contemporary version of "George Washington slept here," I don't know it.

That we're now trying to save the very places we once derided is nothing new. Queen Anne-style houses and Craftsman-style bungalows followed similar tracks: they were icons of an era which fell out of fashion and were subject to ridicule and large-scale demolition before being "discovered," dusted off, and placed on pedestals. "I call this the grandmother principle," the architect Robert Venturi has said. "You hate your mother's wedding gown in your parents' wedding photograph, but you love your grandmother's wedding gown in your grandparents' wedding photograph."

Venturi made this observation last October in Philadelphia, at a conference titled "Preserving the Recent Past." The gathering, of some 850 preservationists, engineers, and architects, was largely given over to arcane technical matters--for example, how to maintain glass-curtain walls and acoustic-tile ceilings. But a more philosophical question was on everyone's mind: How do we preserve the past when faced with accelerating cycles of building and demolition? Today we destroy buildings before they've ripened. We don't allow ourselves the luxury of waiting to evaluate their historical importance. If we are to preserve the best, we need somehow to flag our landmarks for exemption from this hasty winnowing.

This is a complicated matter. Not only is it a daunting task to persuade the members of the public that buildings constructed in their lifetime are historic and worth saving, but also it requires that we sort the truly historic from the merely nostalgic.

"There's a real danger that sentiment can overtake rationality, and preservationists can be made to look ridiculous if we're not careful," says David De Long, a professor of architecture at the University of Pennsylvania. "All of us have a sentimental attachment to these things. One of the great responsibilities of those of us in preservation is to edit. It's a big responsibility. The easiest way to avoid it is to be against any destruction."

But what to save? Early strip malls? Subdivisions filled with tract homes? Drive-in theaters? White Castle hamburger stands? (One paper presented in Philadelphia was titled "The Ubiquitous Parking Garage: Worthy of Preservation?") After all, these are icons of the twentieth century, much as canals and carriage houses and Richardsonian Romanesque train depots are icons of the nineteenth. Isn't it important to preserve the best architectural examples of our era for our grandchildren? How do we decide which are the best?

Before the wrecking ball came in, the Kahiki's owners removed much of the interior and put it in storage. Plans call for the restaurant to reopen within two years, in a better location downtown, with the original interior. That's the good news. The bad news is that the new Kahiki certainly won't have the comfortable and dusky patina of the original place. (And it will lose its National Register listing.) It's easy to imagine the Kahiki reborn as just another "eatertainment" venue--a Rainforest Cafe with varnished blowfish.

Of course, its resurrection will also raise the question of whether the new Kahiki should one day be preserved as an example of the pervasive influence of retro kitsch on American culture. This, I'm happy to say, will be up to the next generation to decide.



 
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thejab
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 2986
From: Tradewinds Apartments, Alameda, CA
Posted: 2006-11-16 12:03 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-11-15 17:07, Dr.TikiMojo wrote:
the unwritten truth is that they may not "ALTER IT FROM IT'S ORIGINAL LOOK - UNLESS TO RESTORE SOMETHING BACK TO A MORE HISTORIC LOOK OR AND ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DEMOLISH IT".



I don't understand what you're quoting from, as you said it was an "unwritten truth". Please clarify the source of that statement, because if there is a law stating that I would like to know more about it.


 
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Dr.TikiMojo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 465
From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted: 2006-11-16 2:16 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-11-15 12:32, Dr.TikiMojo wrote:
This means, (for US and ONLY within our city and codes),



This is "exactly" the way the rules/laws apply in OUR City.
I apologize if I made that a more "blanket" statement but I do "believe" it holds true anywhere you find a Preservation Law on the books.

I will clarify. I am not a lawyer, a trained historian or a master of research in general, nor a politician.

I only got involved with Historical Preservation when my wife and I bought our Victorian 3 years ago. I served on a City Board for revitalizing downtown Vallejo for nearly 7 years.

It has already been stated on this post that often local City Heritage laws can be more stringent than Federal Laws.

What I have stated is based on OUR city and what I've found within the Historical Preservation Society, (or my "understanding" of it right or wrong).

There is no Tiki in the City of Vallejo, nor the County of Solano. I am trying to get people to do their own research within their own communities that DO POSSESS a Historical or Important Tiki Location to get involved before they are no longer.

I will do what ever I can from where I'm at to help those who are interested.


 
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Dr.TikiMojo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 465
From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted: 2006-11-16 2:36 pm   Permalink

Thank you Gator for your most recent post!

Call me sentimental, (or just "Mental" ), but I do weep for the Kahiki Supper Club and it's loss to our Tiki Community!

Your info on the old homes is also correct. In our city, in the 1970's, (oddly enough the beginning of the decline of Tiki as well), the city started tearing down 100 plus year old buildings right and left and putting up boxy, stucco crap instead....they're all over the city now, including one HUGE High Rise apartment building that sticks up out of the Historic Old Town like a ripened pimple!

Here's another loss I just can't figure:

To quote Wikipedia:

Donn Beach (born Ernest Raymond Beaumont Gantt February 22, 1907 – June 7, 1989) is the acknowledged founding father of tiki restaurants, bars, and nightclubs. The many so-called "Polynesian" restaurants and pubs that enjoyed great popularity are directly descended from what he created. After years of being called Don the Beachcomber because of his original bar/restaurant, Gantt legally changed his name to "Donn Beach".

The original Don the Beachcomber restaurants are no longer in existence


To think that this didn't fall into Historic Preservation?




 
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Dr.TikiMojo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 465
From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted: 2006-11-17 6:56 pm   Permalink

The comments below were posted about the Trader Vic's Beverly Hills which has been in talks of closing!
I took this straight from Trader Vic's website:
A Brief History of Trader Vic's
1955 Trader Vic's Beverly Hills opens



That makes it over the 50 year old mark not to mention plenty of reasons I believe this one falls into a "protective" category!

Anyone?

http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/viewtopic.php?topic=21811&forum=1&5

Quote:

On 2006-11-16 17:05, Ojaitimo wrote:
Apparently the new owner is getting flack from the locals and according to Johnson there is at least a five year extention and possibly a permanent one. It seems local residents opposed have some clout and may be able to save Trader Vic’s after all.

Anyone know if there is any truth to this extention or is it wishfull thinking?




Quote:

On 2006-11-16 20:44, bigbrotiki wrote:
That is wishful thinking that sounds possible...after the shock of the Islands, even only a five year extension, even if it turns out to be just a rumor, is a spark of positive energy. Thank You.



Guys, it's gonna take more than just wishful thinking and high hopes!


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I dream of tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 12, 2004
Posts: 494
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted: 2006-11-17 8:27 pm   Permalink

What hasn't been mentioned yet is marketing.

How many tiki establishments do you know market themselves heavily? There has to be a way to spin the establishments in a way that reintroduces them to the masses, thus upping business.

Okay, not everyone can really patron their fav place as much as we'd like. But we can insist that the place gets the word out.

Honestly, I grew up in South Florida and didn't know about the Mai Kai until a friend of mine told me it still existed. Otherwise, I don't see advertisements aside from a small little add in the free New Times publication.

There has to be a way to up the profitability as well as wade through the red tape for preservation status.

I think its got to be a little bit of both, as well as some thinking outside the box. Look at Tiki Kiliki's Tiki Torch nights at the Atlanta Trader Vics'. It upped business and local awareness to a place that was almost empty for a time.


 
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nichols
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 43
Posted: 2006-11-17 9:06 pm   Permalink

...

 
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nichols
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jul 03, 2003
Posts: 43
Posted: 2006-11-17 9:56 pm   Permalink

Hi, I don't drop in here too often, but thought I would try to offer some 'in the trenches' observations.

I'm the former chairman of the Los Angeles Conservancy Modern Committee
http://modcom.org/ (Thanks for the plug Vintagegirl) I started volunteering in the late '80s.

MODCOM has been working very hard for the past 22 years to preserve historic sites from the Post WWII period and currently have an agenda with well over 50 locations in L.A. County that are threatened. There are groups like ours forming all over the country. Off the top of my head we've got Futura Girl in Las Vegas, http://atomicagealliance.com/ and folks in Palm Springs http://psmodcom.com/ Portland http://www.portlandmodern.com/ Phoenix http://www.modernphoenix.net/ and Kansas City http://www.kcmodern.com/ and the Society for Commercial archeology http://www.sca-roadside.org/ all working to save modern resources, which would include tiki.

Typically, historic preservation laws apply at three levels: city, state and federal. Out of the 88 cities in Los Angeles county,for example, only a handful have serious preservation laws and out of those, even fewer understand the resources of the recent past. However, ANYONE can prepare a landmark nomination locally - and there will always be volunteers in the Modern Committee willing to walk you through it. Designation is what makes city planners work to try and come up with a compromise that allows development, but not at the expense of historic resources.

Our tactics have ranged from simple publicity campaigns to full blown designations to protests and street theater. We have found new sympathetic owners for threatened properties, volunteered to write landmark nominations, and on rare occasions, filed lawsuits when we felt that Caliornia Environmental Quality Act was not being observed. Environmental laws like CEQA are extremely important tool in preservation. Here, read this: http://ohp.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=21731

The main problem with traditional preservation planning and what you are discussing here is that even after a major success, you preserve only the architecture. The preservation laws do not dictate the use of a significant building, or decorations or (for the most part) the interiors themselves. Historic blacksmith shops need not shoe horses.

The mention above about the Starbucks conversion was a 1958 bowling alley with an incredible rich cultural as well as architectural history. It took over 5 years, a huge community coalition, major press, a museum exhibition, the full-time staff of the Los Angeles Conservancy and the end result was a Starbucks. An architecturally significant, restored 1958 coffee shop, but a Starbucks nonetheless.
http://www.lottaliving.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=1806 I like to think it's in stasis - awaiting an even more glorious return a la Austin Powers.

If you want to preserve a culture, an interior, a way of life, the only feasible way is to find new, sympathetic owners and work with them dilligently to help find financial incentives, things like the Mills Act http://ohp.parks.ca.gov/default.asp?page_id=21412 or other historic tax credits, utilize the simpler and easier historic building code in renovations, etc. Do whatever you can to remove the threat to the site and bring in people that get it and are able to help...but this type of work is the most difficult of the most difficult. Sometimes it's like working in a hospice... but the survivors make it well worth it.

As for the concern that you are taking profits from those sensitive heirs who sell off everything the minute gramma is gone....many studies show that historic designation increases the value of a property. Here is a study from Rutgers Univerity: http://geography.rutgers.edu/people/faculty/leichenko/leichenko_coulson_listokin2001.pdf

We're in the initial stages of Trader Vic's in Beverly Hills right now. It's going to be an incredibly rough and complex battle. I hope some of you will join us.

Thank you.


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vintagegirl
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 12, 2002
Posts: 542
From: Los Angeles
Posted: 2006-11-17 10:35 pm   Permalink

Great post Nichols! I was hoping you could give us some of your expertise and experience in the matter. BTW folks, it's not just Trader Vic's at stake here, it's the architectural integrity of the entire Beverly Hilton hotel. And anyone in LA should be sympathetic to the fact that what they are proposing would increase traffic in that area to the point of complete gridlock.

Read more about the Beverly Hilton's history here:
beverly-hilton-hotel-beverly-hills-california/" target="_blank">http://www.charlesphoenix.com/beverly-hilton-hotel-beverly-hills-california/



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Dr.TikiMojo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 465
From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted: 2006-11-18 02:07 am   Permalink

Thank you vintagegirl for sending Nichols our way and THANK YOU Nichols for some the best and most informative information that we've had so far!

OK everybody, you heard it, this is going to be a struggle and it's going to take a lot of us and require some work. I will keep trying to learn more but as I stated already I don't live in an area with Tiki locations that need saving. So I can only do so much!

Other than that, the mention of the different levels...I also mentioned that sometimes the city government can enact the strictest preservation rules of all! In my city we have two "protected" districts, the Heritage District and the Saint Vincent's Hill District, (which is were we live). Both of these fall into the
http://www.historicvallejo.org/ and as a homeowner and resident here I find this preservation group pretty strict, even homes built in the 1970's have to jump through all the same hoops because they "reside" within one of these two districts. AND THIS IS VALLEJO FOR GOD'S SAKE! A city with so little revenue they want the citizens to pay for public street and sidewalk repairs!

My point being that if a city like Vallejo can form this strict of Historical Preservation group then there certainly is NO EXCUSE for a city like Beverly Hills, California or Ft. Lauderdale, Florida for the Mai Kai.
Again, there aren't many people who are actively involved here in Vallejo either so again, there just is NO EXCUSE why a few concerned TCers that live in these cities or others with Tiki locations couldn't become involved with the City Council and start up a local preservation group....then you are also choosing a lot of what is and isn't allowed....because I certainly don't think the City of Vallejo pulled "no concrete, aluminum, vinyl or chain link fences" out of a book! They also dictate what can be built and how it's built via the "HISTORICAL APPROPRIATE PERMITS".

If you all think it's really that difficult to start a group that calls public awareness and protective aid to "some unusual" locations when my wife and I traveled to Portland, Oregon we stayed at THE PALMS MOTEL, (in the Tiki Tour Book and walking distance to The Alibi Tiki Bar), they actually had a letter there from a Preservationist Group for NEON SIGNS thanking them for maintaining theirs!



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TikiLaLe
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 09, 2006
Posts: 891
From: Largo, Floriduh
Posted: 2006-11-18 5:06 pm   Permalink

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6cf23b3127cce8e934e4ac16300000010100AZtWLZm2ZsWJg

I do support my local 'Tiki Bar'

Correction for the good Doctor ...most people who go bankrupt ... Health Care !!!!

People come People go who knows how long this party is going to last !!!!


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PoisonIvy
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Mar 04, 2005
Posts: 72
Posted: 2006-11-18 6:42 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-11-18 02:07, Dr.TikiMojo wrote:
Thank you vintagegirl for sending Nichols our way and THANK YOU Nichols for some the best and most informative information that we've had so far!

OK everybody, you heard it, this is going to be a struggle and it's going to take a lot of us and require some work. I will keep trying to learn more but as I stated already I don't live in an area with Tiki locations that need saving. So I can only do so much!



With all due respect, you say you "don't live in an area with Tiki locations that need saving" and "can only do so much." I understand that point. Yet, you are yelling at people to get involved. You, in turn, must understand other's points and feelings. Yes, many tiki enthusiasts are crushed when an establishment is sold and leveled. There's no shame in announcing sorrow over losing a landmark. But you seem to "bag" on people for "bitching" or "complaining" over the loss because perhaps they weren't available to camp in protest. Who is? Are you available? Would that help unless it's years in advance?
Nichols is positive proof. It takes years of concentrated, tough, passionate dedication. I'm sorry, but it's not an "I don't live there, so got on the ball," mission. It can't be.
I appreciate your passion, but please remember, it's easier to rally your army when you are actually in the trenches.
XXOOIvy


 
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