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The Navy Grog, a component study in Mixology |
DJ HawaiianShirt
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Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 148
From: NoVA, DC
|  Posted: 2007-07-18 05:21 am Permalink
On that note, I think it's safe to assume that any recipe involving grapefruit juice refers the very tangy and slightly bitter stuff that one may get from the grocery store or have juiced from grocery store grapefruits.
It sounds like the "super duper fresh" stuff might be a little too subtle to stand up in a cocktail (or at least Navy Grog).
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Chip and Andy
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Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 2079
From: Corner table, Molokai Lounge, Mai-Kai.
| Posted: 2007-07-18 11:59 am Permalink
Quote:
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On 2007-07-18 05:21, DJ HawaiianShirt wrote:
On that note, I think it's safe to assume that any recipe involving grapefruit juice refers the very tangy and slightly bitter stuff that one may get from the grocery store or have juiced from grocery store grapefruits.
It sounds like the "super duper fresh" stuff might be a little too subtle to stand up in a cocktail (or at least Navy Grog).
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Well, that depends.....
From a Cocktail Historian standpoint, the super-duper-fresh is probably what was used originally. We don't know about the quality of the fruit used 'back in the day.' As has been discussed previously, the quality of the limes varies greatly by the shipping distance from the orchid/orchard of origin. But, since Southern California was one of the larger Grapefruit producing areas we can hope that was a minor concern. And, if we go under the assumption that it was nothing but the best was used behind the bar we can suppose (hope, actually) this Super-Duper flavor, however sublte, is what we are aiming for.
From a Home-Bar standpoint (and that is our goal in this conversation) we can sort-of establish a base line for our flavors so that we know what and why we are adding to our glass. From there we can make sure that we are drinking nothing but the best. So, for the Super-Duper fresh, we will just have to sacrifice and make two drinks to compare the differences. Who knows, maybe the bottled stuff actually works out better on the modern palate....
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telescopes
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Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 554
From: Palm Springs
| Posted: 2007-07-18 3:54 pm Permalink
Your point is well taken. Because I grow my own grapefruits, I prefer the taste of fresh off the tree grapefruit. The flavor is so gentle that you can drink a quart of it without blinking. What it does in the Navy Grog is to impart the essence of grapefruit without actually imparting the twang of grapefruit. Now, I reiterate, this does impact the character of the overall drink - it allows the other flavors to become more pronounced while making the drink a little more gentle, "feminine", in its taste. Mr. Grog doesn't seem so mean and dastardly without his "twang".
This effect is only possible if the grapefruit is off-the-vine freshly squeezed. For most of our mixologist, this is something that simply won't be possible.
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telescopes
Tiki Socialite
Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 554
From: Palm Springs
| Posted: 2007-09-02 3:03 pm Permalink
According to Beachbum Berry's website, grog mix is essentially an allspice syrup, i.e. pimento liqueur? His recipe for a Trader Vic Navy Grog is as follows:
Into a cocktail shaker pour
3/4 ounce fresh lime juice,
1/2 ounce grapefruit juice,
3/4 ounce allspice syrup, and
1 ounce each dark Jamaican rum and Demerara rum.
Shake well with lots of crushed ice and pour into a double old-fashioned glass.
My question is, how is this one different than the one we've been discussing?
Navy Grog
3/4 oz. lime juice
3/4 oz grapefurit juice
3/4 oz honey (okay, there is one difference - allspice syrup instead of honey
1 oz light PR rum - Another difference
1 oz Demerara rum
Any thoughts on the use of allspice syrup instead of honey?
By the way, on another discussion board that I've bumped next to this one,
Martiki wrote:
The restauant recipe is juice from 1/2 lime, 3/4 oz grapefruit, dash simple syrup, 1/4-1/3 oz rum grog concentrate, and then the rum. This is where some of the locations differ. Emeryville uses 1 oz silver, 1 oz gold, 1 oz dark- all Trader Vic's brand. SF uses 1 oz gold, 1 oz dark and 1/2-3/4 oz Lemon Hart 151. The rum grog concentrate is MUCH different than the retail version. TV is not supposed to sell it, so I suggest you head to Atlanta- that's quite a coup.
[ This Message was edited by: telescopes 2007-09-02 15:08 ]
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VampiressRN
Grand Member (5 years) 
Joined: Nov 23, 2006
Posts: 5085
From: Sin City Lincoln Hills (NorCal)
| Posted: 2007-09-02 4:34 pm Permalink
First off....let me make it perfectly clear, I am not a connoisseur of all the individual ingredients as most of your are. Rum drinks are not my favorites as they typically give me a headache, but I do like and appreciate a well made rum drink. Mostly my goal is to make good drinks that my party guests will like. So far, I have done OK with my Mai Tais (just a little adjusted from the Grog Log).
I have a party coming up and want to make Navy Grog, but will need to do some substitutions, so appreciate your help. I have the following substitutions, but not sure about the Demerara?
~Lime Juice = I use Nelly & Joe's Famous Key West Lime Juice
~Grapefruit Juice = I will get a good name brand
~Honey = will use what I have (it is a new bottle)
~Light Puerto Rican Rum = will probably use Cruzan
~Dark Jamaican Rum = will probably use Meyers
~Demerara Rum = [what would be a good substitute?]
~Club Soda = I usually buy Schweppes
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Scottes
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Feb 18, 2007
Posts: 490
From: A Little North Of Boston
| Posted: 2007-09-03 05:41 am Permalink
I see no real problems with everything you're using.
Nelly & Joe's is about as good as you're going to get outside of fresh limes. However, be aware that it is Key Lime juice, which I find *very* different from the "typical" limes one gets in the stores. I don't particularly care for Key Limes, so the taste difference is quite noticeable to me.
As to the demerara... Well, demerara is demerara. I don't think there's really anything to substitute. Oh, I'd sub El Dorado 5-year-old in place of Lemon Hart, but they're both demeraras. You *might* get away with a dark rum - though Myer's is fairly distinctive, so maybe Coruba (which I'd use instead of Myer's in any drink that doesn't explicitly call for Myer's). Someone in another thread suggested Pusser's, though I'd go 50/50 Pusser's with some other dark. But demerara is demerara....
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telescopes
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Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 554
From: Palm Springs
| Posted: 2007-09-03 10:10 am Permalink
Try Barcardi Select. You can do a search on TC and read the discussions about Lemon Hart vs Barcardi Select.
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GentleHangman
Grand Member (4 years) 
Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 350
From: Stuart, Florida
| Posted: 2007-09-03 12:58 pm Permalink
How did allspice syrup end up in a Navy Grog? It is totally absent from the Grog Log recipe (pg. 53). There is a BIG difference between honey and allspice. Allspice can have a very strong flavor which I sometimes find overpowers the other flavors in a drink (Like in the Nui Nui) . . .
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telescopes
Tiki Socialite
Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 554
From: Palm Springs
| Posted: 2007-09-03 1:28 pm Permalink
According to Berry, both through email correspondance as well as on his own blog, the secret ingredient in TV's grog mix is essentially an allspice syrup.
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paranoid123
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 374
From: New York City
| Posted: 2008-09-09 8:17 pm Permalink
I thought I would bump this thread as I made my first Navy Grog last night. Here's how I built it.
lime juice - fresh squeezed, it may have been organic from TJs
grapefruit juice - bottled by TJ, made from organic pink grapefruit
honey - I eyeballed the local honey and water when heating
light PR rum - I used white Flor de Cana 4 yr Extra Dry
dark Jamaican rum - I used Appleton's 12 year
Demerara rum - Used El Dorado 15 year
club soda - I can't remember the brand, but it wasn't Canada Dry
I didn't use a blender, but shook it with ice and strained it on fresh ice, and topped it with club soda. I added too much ice in the highball initially, so I didn't have enough room to top it with club soda, so I had to drink it down to level.
I noticed it was a strong rummy flavor and taste, with little of anything else. There was very little sweetener to balance it out, so I think I didn't use enough honey as a honey mix.
I've had the Navy Grog at Elettaria in the West Village, who uses the same Beachbum Berry recipe, and find theirs more balanced. I've also had Navy Grogs with a bit of spiciness in it, perhaps using a spiced rum, or substituted St. Elizabeth Allspice Dram for club soda, and I prefer it that way.
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arriano
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Joined: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 1123
From: Birdland - San Diego
| Posted: 2008-09-15 10:29 am Permalink
I was wondering -- has anyone ever tried making a Navy Grog with cola rather than club soda? I ask because I know that some make it with allspice or allspice dram, and since cola is basically sweet spiced soda, I was wondering how that might taste. Good? Or would it just be a Cuba Libre on steroids?
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Tipsy McStagger
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Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Posts: 3388
From: HELL
| Posted: 2008-09-15 11:18 am Permalink
..i didn't bother to read this thread so shame on me if someone mentioned this already....but the navy grog at chef shangri-la includes scotch as an ingredient and it's quite tasty....i do not know in what quantity or if it is a rum substitute...
..but there you have it...make of it what you will....
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savoy6
Grand Member (first year) 
Joined: Aug 18, 2008
Posts: 35 | Posted: 2008-11-29 10:03 am Permalink
I think that the allspice probably crept into the mix ,given it's origins in the Caribean, as a more easily carried substitute for honey,which would require more space to stow aboard ship.You find this sort of "discrepancy" in alot of "period correct" recipes....the ship might not have had honey available at the last port it stopped in for provisions and used the allspice instead...and vice versa.I do agree with the line about the Key Limes though if you are looking for the taste closer to the original.They would be more correct and closer to the time and place then the ubiquitous Persian Limes in the stores everywhere.
Working on my allspice syrup now....
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Austin_Tiki
Tiki Centralite
Joined: May 31, 2008
Posts: 49
From: I'll give you three chances to guess
| Posted: 2008-12-09 10:24 am Permalink
Trader Vic's Navy Grog definitely includes some kind of allspice. I've attempted the Bum's recipe at home, but substituted allspice liqueur for the syrup. The resulting drink was far too sour. I haven't had time to whip up a batch of allspice syrup, so can't comment on how well the Bum's actual recipe tracks the navy grogs served at TV (which are excellent).
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Kon-Hemsby
Grand Member (8 years) 
Joined: Sep 17, 2003
Posts: 1225
From: Andover, England
| Posted: 2009-11-15 09:23 am Permalink
I've just mixed up some really nice Navy Grogs:
Grapefruit Juice
Lime Juice
Honey Mix
Pimento Dram (Allspice made by The Bitter Truth)
Coruba Rum
El Dorado 15 year
Very very nice.
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