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Mickey Hart Music
congatiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 2471
From: wisconsin northwoods
Posted: 2009-11-03 5:07 pm   Permalink

Fankhauser was a hippie, always a hippie.
Dylan was a folkie,not a folkie now.
Lucas vigorously like Jobim, nice music, apparently fits into these
threads,lounge, bossa nova, samba, Black Orpheus soundtrack, lots of
percussion.
Mickey Hart, similar percussion, no hippie overtones, seems Lucas
vigorously inconsistent. Certainly not tiki music by any stretch,
but not altogether unlike Chaino or other "accepted" sounds. Certainly
as "tiki" or "poly pop" as surf music.


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2009-11-03 5:57 pm   Permalink

A majority of the bossa nova I like is from the early 60's, and features tropical rythems, lush strings and tinkling piano. Hallmarks of lounge music. Mickey Hart has nothing to do with tiki, not now, not ever.

 
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Hangtentiki
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 39
Posted: 2009-11-03 6:01 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2009-11-03 15:31, The Sperm Whale wrote:
Here is what happens when hippy's and tiki mix ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA Ha Ha Good Times

[ This Message was edited by: The Sperm Whale 2009-11-03 15:32 ]


That was just good, we don't give a crap fun. Thank's - I needed that.

[ This Message was edited by: Hangtentiki 2009-11-03 18:31 ]


 
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Hangtentiki
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 39
Posted: 2009-11-03 6:29 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2009-11-03 14:42, congatiki wrote:
Well, I might as well jump in. Anyone who calls Mickey Hart/Planet Drum/Global
Drum Project/etc "hippie music"...just because Mickey was/is in a hippy band....
hasn't listened to any of it. I guess that means Dylan is a 'folkie."


That's about it, pure and simple. And Mickey's music is exotic, maybe not exotica... I'm a hard core 60's guy I lived through it all, and Nam. I know the difference, good old surf and new wave exotic and Mickey's stuff rings true to me. It takes me right back to the Tiki's bars. I do have to say that SOME of the so called surf/rock played at the last Tiki Oasis and Bali Hai really sucked. But that just me.
The Blue Hawaiian's. ALWAYS get a Hang *TEN Tiki, from me, their the best.


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2009-11-03 7:21 pm   Permalink

I think that people on this forum do come from several vastly different directions when they head to tiki. For some, it's like the rockabilly crowd. You know, Tiki is punk rock's "retirement program". Other's are hippies looking for that mellow vibe and discovering Martin Denny. Then there are surfers who always had a tiki or two at their beach luau, and love slack key as much as they love surf rock. And finally there are the pure poly popsters, who love the tiki craze of yesterday with all it's trimmings and trappings. The people pictured eating pupus and drinking mai tais in Sven 's "book of tiki". I would say I fit more in that group. But, I am not a person that believes most people truly inhabit all those personality types at the same time. I think by nature each of us is part of a certain group. Yes, you can like Sinatra AND the grateful dead at the same time but I think if you really ponder it, you will find that you like one far greater then the other.

[ This Message was edited by: Lucas Vigor 2009-11-04 06:19 ]


 
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congatiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 2471
From: wisconsin northwoods
Posted: 2009-11-03 7:43 pm   Permalink

First off, I hardly visit "Tiki Music" because it is one of the more boring
threads on TC. How much new discussion about Martin Denny can there be?
If anyone suggests an artist that fits into the "tiki motif" they will
be "Buffetized" by a member of the tiki illuminati.

I just happened to stumble upon a discussion of Mickey Hart. I am
not a Deadhead, I have seem various versions of "Planet Drum" a few times,
have read more than one of Mickey's books, and have listened to all of
the cds repeatedly. To simply categorize this music as "Hippie Music"
is preposterous. This music would appeal to many people who take a
portion of their home and convert it into an "exotic" experience.

The real issue here is that there is a wealth of music that would
appeal to many visitors to Tiki Central, not just Mickey Hart, but
Sabu, Tito Puente, Mongo Santamaria, Ry Cooder, and on and on.

If we should only discuss Martin Denny, Arthur Lyman, and Les Baxter
this will remain a pretty sleepy place. Who is the "most hip"
among us? Lucas Vigor?


 
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Bora Boris
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2005
Posts: 2594
From: Boogie Wonderland
Posted: 2009-11-03 7:57 pm   Permalink

Hey Hippie, Shh!



Okay Iím done laughing at my own post now but honestly that music no matter how talented the artist is does not belong here. Sure it takes you to an exotic world and I guess that world is Planet Drum and Iím out! It doesnít look like a lot of Tiki Central members care either way and the ones that say it doesnít belong here are being called Trolls which is always nice especially coming from a spammer. If youíve given something a chance and you canít stand it whether itís Cilantro or Mickey Hart thereís no changing it. Iím sorry that only two Tiki Central members have chimed in on Mickey Hartís side but to me that verifies that it doesnít belong on this forum. Why not try
www.drumforum.org and maybe youíll get a more positive response there.



[ This Message was edited by: Bora Boris 2009-11-03 20:46 ]


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congatiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 2471
From: wisconsin northwoods
Posted: 2009-11-04 04:27 am   Permalink

Hey, I didn't start this thread, I simply responded to a question.
That question was what we thought of one direction of Mickey Hart's
music. Isn't that what a forum should be, question, response?

It's funny that a member who portrays himself as part of the "Un Kool"
wants to set all the standards for what is worth discussing or
listening to. Maybe there should be a thread titled "Appropriate
tiki lounge music that Vigor hates!"

At any rate it doesn't matter to me, doesn't affect what I listen
to, and I'm never gonna be rubbing elbows with you experts anyway.

Not too long ago Vigor was gonna leave and find a lounge music formum
because he wasn't getting enough response here, apparently he wasn't
getting validated enough. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the fact that
"only two" of us have piped in to endorse Hart's percussion bands.
There has been some discussion, in fact more than a number of recent
posts. Members know what happens here when you guys get your groove on,
and most simply want to avoid being shouted down.

Final points....
Mickey Hart compatible with tiki lounge music?....worth discussing.
Planet Drum/etc is "hippie music"? Wrong kids...take a listen. It's
critically acclaimed, award winning "world music" that encompasses many
of the moods and vibes of exotic or exotica music. I don't care
if you don't like it...just don't be stupid about it.



 
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Hangtentiki
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 27, 2009
Posts: 39
Posted: 2009-11-04 04:43 am   Permalink

What a strange, strange thread it's been...Right-on-Right-on-Right-on and on... Now "Beat" it Boris.


[ This Message was edited by: Hangtentiki 2009-11-04 04:45 ]


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2009-11-04 06:37 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2009-11-04 04:27, congatiki wrote:
Hey, I didn't start this thread, I simply responded to a question.
That question was what we thought of one direction of Mickey Hart's
music. Isn't that what a forum should be, question, response?

It's funny that a member who portrays himself as part of the "Un Kool"
wants to set all the standards for what is worth discussing or
listening to. Maybe there should be a thread titled "Appropriate
tiki lounge music that Vigor hates!"

At any rate it doesn't matter to me, doesn't affect what I listen
to, and I'm never gonna be rubbing elbows with you experts anyway.

Not too long ago Vigor was gonna leave and find a lounge music formum
because he wasn't getting enough response here, apparently he wasn't
getting validated enough. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the fact that
"only two" of us have piped in to endorse Hart's percussion bands.
There has been some discussion, in fact more than a number of recent
posts. Members know what happens here when you guys get your groove on,
and most simply want to avoid being shouted down.

Final points....
Mickey Hart compatible with tiki lounge music?....worth discussing.
Planet Drum/etc is "hippie music"? Wrong kids...take a listen. It's
critically acclaimed, award winning "world music" that encompasses many
of the moods and vibes of exotic or exotica music. I don't care
if you don't like it...just don't be stupid about it.





First off, you have been following my career on tiki central a little to closely. I quit posting for a long time for a lot of reasons, mainly because few people seemed to understand what polypop was all about, and several of my fellow artists apparently are also hippies and got really offended that I ain't one as well. Oh, they collect every mug in existence, but when push comes to shove the MUSIC they like is Shania Twain, Jimmy Buffet and hippy crap of all stripes. Yes, that bothers me. This is supposed to be a tiki forum. But I encounter a lot of TINOs here. (Tiki in name only).

Second, since you follow my posts so carefully and keep track of everything I say, you would notice that I have some other tastes in music not related to Tiki...and guess where I post them? In BILGE where they belong. That's where your hippy crap music like Mickey Hart belongs. In Bilge.

It's not ME who is deciding what is cool. My tastes and attitudes towards lounge and tiki are exactly reflected in major tomes like "Book of tiki" or ANY of the liner notes to ANY of the capitol record's ultra-lounge series. Have you read them? Or is the "party city" approach to tiki good enough for you?

As far as not getting support for lounge and real tiki here, there are actually a few people who agree with me. Most probably secretly agree, but don't want to get involved in any "hot" topics here, so they don't try to chime in and support my position. Some have chimed in, because they too are bothered by the slow encroachment of non-tiki elements to this forum. They don't want to see this place "buffetized" and that's where things seem to be heading. Others are like me, state their opinions and are percieved as "Negative" because everything that comes out of their mouths is not happy and fuzzy and touchy-feely. I can't believe, for example, how many times big tiki dude has been flamed for his tastes or opinions. And guess what, the guy is a total expert when it comes to music. He calls it like he sees it and I have nothing but respect for a man that goes against the PC grain and stands on his principles.

But then again, it is not MY position. As I have said, my tastes are the same as anyone who is into lounge and retro culture. People like me do not get into crappy hippy music. That music is terrible, really. There is nothing sophisticated either techincally, musically or stylistically about it. With a couple of exceptions, it is basically the work of self-taught garage musicians. That's fine if you like it. Good for you. But don't get all upset with me if I tell you I don't like it, and give you my reasons. No need to call me "stupid" because I don't like dirty smelly hippy music. There are tons of real world musicians I like and respect who are MILES ahead of Mickey Hart in every category. That guy just has the money and the star power to do whatever he wants. Doesn't mean he is qualified. You need to check out Zakir Hussein or Trilok Gurtu to see what a REAL percussionist does.

Go back and read the subject header for this section of the forum if you are having trouble understanding what kind of music is considered tiki by the owner and operator of this forum. It's pretty clear to me that hippy music ain't it.

And for the record, I was raised as and supposed to be a hippy. But since an early age both me and my brother laughed at all the inane hippy things we encountered.

Some examples: My mom had a bunch of hippies over to the house. Despite the fact that we had perfectly good furniture, you hippies insisted on sitting indian style or cross legged on the carpet. That made no sense to me or my brother. as I recall, he even asked "Mom, don't they like our chairs?"

1971, standing in the line at Disneyland, waiting for "adventure to inner space"...there was a hippy playing some wooden flute just ahead of us. Always being musicians, we asked him "what are you playing?" Hippy looked at us and said "I'm just playing my feelings, man". We were confused. We wanted to know what type of instrument it was. The hippy did not have much talent anyway, and what he was playing sounded horrible. My 4 year old brother deadpanned, "oh, you feel bad then?" We laughed about it for the rest of the day.

1973, My uncle (who looked almost exactly like John Lennon) had a female friend who did not like to shave her armpits. However, she did enjoy doing fake "tai chi" (She had never really seriously studied it) at what is now triangle square in costa mesa. In other words, she really wanted everyone to see her stretching and doing her stuff. It was all for show, so everyone would know how "spiritual" she was. Apparently, her own backyard was not good enough.

I could give you countless examples of the pretentious hippies I have encountered in life. I was born in the early 60's, not of that generation but always an observer. I will tell you this much: Hippies are always willing to accept mediocracy in life. For a hippy, things are always "good enough". few seem to understand the work involved.

It's like being a true jazz artist,folks. You don't just cash in your parents trust fund and suddenly become a jazz artist and start releasing albums. If you don't know the lineage and where the music came from, the path from dixieland to swing to bebop to cool and onwards, you really are not understanding the forces and thoughts that combine to create the style of jazz. It takes hard work and practice to be good at music, but a lot of hippies sidestep that and take the easy way out. Everything is "groovy" and we are just "playing our feelings", and that should be good enough. Not in my opinion. If any of the current members of Phish could be time- travelled back to the Les Baxter era, and put on the stage with him with the charts to "quiet village" in front of them, I think they would be hopelessly lost.



[ This Message was edited by: lucas vigor 2009-11-04 07:00 ]


 
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congatiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 2471
From: wisconsin northwoods
Posted: 2009-11-04 06:46 am   Permalink

You generalize too broadly, Mr. Tikiphile.
And you certainly do not know my musical tastes. I have heard and seen Trilok Gurto,
Airto, Zakir, Babatunda (I was listening to him when you were still in diapers),
I have played with Mamady Keita, and I really enjoy Brazilian, Cuban, Middle Eastern,
and other forms of percussive music.
My only disagreement with you, and it's my only one, is your repeatedly ignorant
hippie references. I haven't listened to the Grateful Dead in nearly 40 years,
and it's clear you haven't listened to much Mickey Hart music.
Bye for now.


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2009-11-04 07:05 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2009-11-04 06:46, congatiki wrote:
(I was listening to him when you were still in diapers),



Then, you are like 60-70 years old? I am in my mid forties.


 
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congatiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2004
Posts: 2471
From: wisconsin northwoods
Posted: 2009-11-04 07:53 am   Permalink

Yes, I am like 60. My brother was listening to "Drums of Passion" when I was nine.

A few more thoughts after pondering this discussion while in the dentist chair
this morning.
You seem like a great person to discuss music with, very broad tastes, just a
little too quick to generalize unnecessarily

A final thought on Mickey Hart. You are right, he is not a spectacular drummer,
especially in the company he keeps. As for this discussion, I endorse Mickey Hart
as a great facilitator, bringing together world-class percussionists into a
tribal and exotic "stew" if you will. If people get beyond his "hippie" background
and get a chance to listen to Giovanni Hidalgo, Babatunda Olatunji, Zakir,
and the other percussionists involved in the project, then I believe it fits into the
experiences we call "tiki." No, it is not tiki music in the sense that
Les Baxter is, maybe not even in the sense that Jobim could be considered
lounge, but to some people it might fit into the mix.

Although I said earlier that I won't be rubbing elbows with you guys anytime
soon, I backtrack to add that I think it would be fun.

Don't toss me in the dumpster just cuz I seem to like "hippie" music. How
do you feel about Quicksilver Messenger Service and how it fits into
the tiki/exotica picture?


 
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tabuzak
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 284
From: New York City
Posted: 2009-11-04 08:24 am   Permalink

[quote]
[ How
do you feel about Quicksilver Messenger Service and how it fits into
the tiki/exotica picture?
[/quote

LOL!


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2009-11-04 09:37 am   Permalink

Do you have an example other then this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqVVnExlX9c


Because that is about as "hippy" as can be.

Show me something by this band that would fit in a tiki bar.


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