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Smuggler's Cove - "It's Beyond Tiki" |
MadDogMike
Grand Member (3 years) 
Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 6403
From: The Anvil of the Sun
|  Posted: 2010-02-03 11:58 am Permalink
I too can't see why people confuse Pi-rates and Smugg-lers.
 
Or is that Smugg-lers and Pi-rates??? 
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JOHN-O
Grand Member (first year) 
Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2457
From: Dogtown, USA
| Posted: 2010-02-03 12:06 pm Permalink
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On 2010-02-03 11:25, Limbo Lizard wrote:
"It wasn't long after the first taxes on alcoholic beverages that someone began to smuggle them . . . Pirates often made extra money running rum to heavily taxed colonies."
(emphasis added)
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I think the point is that while all pirates might be smugglers not all smugglers are pirates.
If I'm interpreting the Bigbro's comments correctly it's acceptable to have Caribbean iconography as part of Tiki-style as long as it's trader/smuggler influenced and not specifically pirate. I'm guessing because pirates smell and have bad table manners.
We don't want that kind of riff-raff inside the Tiki bar !!
Also pirate iconography (at least from the Hollywood over-the-top standpoint) might tend to overpower the Tikis. I'm thinking of the kitschy elements like skull and crossbones, parrots, and Jolly Roger flags. At least the trader/smuggler stuff is a little more neutral from a nautical standpoint.
[ This Message was edited by: JOHN-O 2010-02-03 13:17 ]
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JOHN-O
Grand Member (first year)
Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2457
From: Dogtown, USA
| Posted: 2010-02-03 1:30 pm Permalink
A true "Pirate bar" might be more along the lines of Crazy Hook in Koreatown.
FYI, this place is not always hospitable to large groups of non-Koreans. I always try to "pass" when I'm drinking in K-Town. 
There are no Tikis in this place.
[ This Message was edited by: JOHN-O 2010-02-03 13:34 ]
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Shaun of theTiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 25, 2008
Posts: 109 | Posted: 2010-02-03 2:17 pm Permalink
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I don't get it, why does "pirate" still enter the discussion? I thought I pointed out above that SMUGGLER is a completely different job description than PIRATE. Or do you remember any smuggling going on in the "Pirates of the Carribean" movies? And this is NOT splitting hairs: This IS a discussion about style concepts and their meaning. Pirate stuff is child's play, the "Smuggler" concept is a much more adult form of ...playing. And it is much more RUM-, and thus Tiki-related.
Just because the media and blogosphere cannot differentiate the meaning of a theme concept does not mean we have to buy into it.
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Please use the men's room at the SC and look at the wall.
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Tiki Diablo
Grand Member (8 years) 
Joined: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 1889
From: socal
| Posted: 2010-02-03 6:14 pm Permalink
This sounds kind of like a DTB thread, no?
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bigbrotiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 10561
From: Tiki Island, above the Silverlake
| Posted: 2010-02-04 07:53 am Permalink
So who of all the PIRATES = SMUGGLERS smart asses here can show me that Smuggler's Cove is predominantly decorated in the Pirate theme? I said myself previously that the two overlap, but are they the same? Should we tell Martin to call it "Pirate's Cove", then?
For every point made, there can always be exceptions found. Great achievement. Clap clap clap, guys.
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JOHN-O
Grand Member (first year)
Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2457
From: Dogtown, USA
| Posted: 2010-02-04 09:35 am Permalink
C'mon Bigbro, no need to be sarcastic. We were just having a little fun as you like to do.
I for one have found this thread to be both educational as well as entertaining.
Seriously at this point, I think that everyone here (well most everyone) will now agree that Smuggler's Cove is aesthetically a tiki/nautical bar and not a pirate bar. The posts by Humuhumu and Jonpaul articulately made that point. The only question I still have is can a true "Tiki" bar have a name connected with Caribbean culture. But as Jungle Trader pointed out, SC is being defined by Martin as a "nautical rum bar".
I'm sure I wasn't the only one confused here and we all can't visit these places in person. That's what's great about a site like TC, it allows us to "travel" to other places though the experiences of others. The frustration I was having was that most early posts here on SC were of the golly-gosh congratulatory type: "SC is a great place, you should go !!" and not very descriptive or thoughtful. Only the Jab made the analogy of "Pre-Tiki". That's why I (and I'm sure others) looked to Yelp to get the skinny.
And let's admit it, whether we're talking about Tiki or Pirates, it's still a POP CULTURE iconography. You can reference all of the Oceanic Art books and Caribbean history you want, but in the end aren't these pop culture styles at the mercy of the general public's perception? For most people, Nautical = Pirates because of the overwhelming popular imagery of "Pirates of the Caribbean". Right or wrong, that's a reality.
Yes, I can see how first generation Tiki-style was directly influenced by the original native subject matter but what happens when that pop culture iconography starts feeding on itself rather than the original or historically accurate inspirations. Does that make it any less valid? I know that you might feel that way but I'm not so sure.
Like it or not, Smuggler's Cove even though Martin's intent was a "nautical rum bar", has reinforced the general public's (ignorant?) perception of what a "Tiki bar" or what a "Pirate bar" is. Should we care what the public thinks or just be content to play here in our insular Tiki sandbox?
No offense intended here, but I gotta imagine that Smuggler's Cove (God bless it, Martin, and his master mixology) is only going to make it harder for evangelists of Tiki-style to spread the faith. Now not only do you have "Buffet-ization" as part of the confusion, but "pirates" as well.
Yeah I know as Ung Bunga pointed out, I should be more drinking more and thinking less, but I couldn't help comparing this to the exhaustive (it's still going on !!) thread on the new Trader Vic's. All of that discussion on a place who's sole intent was to be a fun affordable place to get a good Mai Tai. To me, Smuggler's Cove with all of its ambition and its twist on Tiki-style is the more worthy topic.
[ This Message was edited by: JOHN-O 2010-02-04 14:42 ]
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little lost tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 7460
From: Orange,CA-right near the Circle!
| Posted: 2010-02-04 2:11 pm Permalink
i vote to re-name it SNUGGLER's COVE!
Kind of more warm and fuzzy..like Rum!
Plus,it wouldn't encourage folks to nitpick about Smugglers and Pirates....
Instead they would just drink their rum and snuggle up next to somebody....
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JOHN-O
Grand Member (first year)
Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2457
From: Dogtown, USA
| Posted: 2010-02-04 2:38 pm Permalink
That's a good idea. I agree with LLT.
And if that someone next to you looks like this...
Are you seriously gonna tell her she's NOT sitting in a Pirate Bar ?
(I know this will lighten the Bigbro up. Cheesecake is his weakness.)
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tikiskip
Grand Member (6 years) 
Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 2085 | Posted: 2010-02-04 2:44 pm Permalink
Now THAT'S some booty!!!
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aquarj
Grand Member (8 years)
Joined: Apr 02, 2002
Posts: 1040
From: SF bay area, CA
| Posted: 2010-02-04 5:50 pm Permalink
I really like this Smuggler's Cove tiki.
I also really like this Smuggler's Cove tiki bowl.
I also like the embedded references to Tiki Bob's and other kinds of classic polynesian pop places we celebrate on TC.
Obviously those references are not only visual in the decor, but in the flavor of the drinks!
But I haven't seen any pirate stuff in Smuggler's Cove - maybe I missed them, because there sure seems to be a lot of talk about them! Anyone recall better than me - is there pirate-y stuff like treasure chests or a skull-and-crossbones flag? I recall tapa, bamboo, blowfish lights, a little a-frame, rum barrels, crates, lots of rope and rigging, and of course the cannon and anchor. But none of that specifically ties to pirates, and a lot of it specifically doesn't.
I still say they should make a little rope-and-pulley drink delivery system from the main floor bar to the upper polynesian perch.
-Randy
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KAHAKA
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 03, 2003
Posts: 756
From: San Jose, CA
| Posted: 2010-02-04 6:17 pm Permalink
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On 2010-02-03 11:58, MadDogMike wrote:
I too can't see why people confuse Pi-rates and Smugg-lers.
Or is that Smugg-lers and Pi-rates???
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I can't wait until this thread is buried in the archives of TC. I apologize for kicking it back to the top. All I know is, I love me some Tiki, and I love me some Smuggler's Cove. The end.
_________________
Custom Tapa Swag Lamps and Sconces Built By Kahaka
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dewey-surf
Tiki Socialite
Joined: May 27, 2009
Posts: 164
From: Clearwater, FL
| Posted: 2010-02-04 6:29 pm Permalink
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On 2010-02-03 11:58, MadDogMike wrote:
I too can't see why people confuse Pi-rates and Smugg-lers.
Or is that Smugg-lers and Pi-rates???
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Whadda 'bout Buccaneers?
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JOHN-O
Grand Member (first year)
Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2457
From: Dogtown, USA
| Posted: 2010-02-04 6:58 pm Permalink
Quote:
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On 2010-02-04 18:17, KAHAKA wrote:
I can't wait until this thread is buried in the archives of TC. I apologize for kicking it back to the top. All I know is, I love me some Tiki, and I love me some Smuggler's Cove. The end.
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Sigh... I was warned this was going to happen.
I should have listened. 
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Trader Bob
Tiki Centralite
Joined: Nov 29, 2009
Posts: 75
From: Gold Coast, tropical paradise
| Posted: 2010-02-05 12:06 am Permalink
Well I thought it was a good question. Being new to the whole Tiki culture I want to learn as much as I can and this thread has been useful to me. Who actually invented Tiki? who invented the Mai Tai, dose anyone know 100% without a doubt? is there someone who is qualified to say? I love this fourm, I love peoples effort and imagination with their Bars and crafts. Smugglers Cove looks like a wonderful place, we should be thankful it exists and congratulate Martin for creating it. and for those lucky enough to get there and sample its atmosphere, I envy. What ever it is Nautical, Tiki, whatever. I like it!
Trader Bob
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