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Digital art discussion
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-13 10:44 am   Permalink

Yes MadDogMike makes the point well, What differentiates the two is are you a "Commercial Artist"
or are you a "Fine Artist" and those even rarer people who can do both.

A Commercial Artist must do the work on a computer because the output is expected to be in a digital format
they must do it quick and be able to move onto the next job in the blink of an eye, The "Commercial Artist's"
job rarely has much to do with actual Art.

Grog's bread and butter is even more elusive, "Animation" is a real niche area and most of it has been farmed out overseas, maybe Grog can touch on just how many Animation jobs are available in the USA now?

A Fine Artist can do what ever they want, But if they are making a living from it is a sore point for many.


 
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Swamp Fire
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 31, 2003
Posts: 1097
From: Long Beach, CA
Posted: 2011-07-13 5:12 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-07-13 08:36, little lost tiki wrote:

is fannypack art?




Hey, don't knock the Fanny Pack, Batman and Spiderman both wear one!!




And Ken, don't think for a minute I've forgotten about the speech you gave in 2010
at the Seattle Fanny Pack convention! The camera doesn't lie, no Digital magic involved here!!







_________________



The Art of Doug Horne
http://www.swampfirelounge.com/


 
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happychi
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Posts: 71
From: Long Beach
Posted: 2011-07-13 10:07 pm   Permalink

I couldn't have said it better myself Swampfire! Those examples you posted are amazing!

 
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Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-13 10:12 pm   Permalink

Yea! what Stacey said, so there.

 
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tikiyaki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2710
From: The Exotic Port of REDONDO BEACH, CA
Posted: 2011-07-13 11:52 pm   Permalink

I'm with Swampfire and Tobor64 on this....

Having been a big Fan of Doug's for a long time now, to me, there is no way a hack with a good working knowledge of Photoshop (ie : ME for example) could ever create a Doug Horne art piece on the computer. If the artist is talented,his or her talent will come through whatever medium...ie a Doug Horne Painting. It's drawn by hand,but facilitated though digital means.

Just like when I saw Tobor64's pieces for the Halloween art show....I was shocked when he told me it was done on the computer....again...not just ANYONE can do that.

It's the same in the music world,tho' I think there is alot more ability to fix bad talent in digital music creating. Even so, it is THE current medium for making music...and it's certainly allowed me to have an actual career making music without having to deal with anyone in the way of my creative process...ie: pain in the ass singer, bad recording engineer etc....

So I say, if you're freehanding it with a tablet, you an artist...period. Painting over and manipulating existing images, well, maybe we call that a "Digital artist" ?

Interesting discussion tho'...



 
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hewey
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Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4278
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2011-07-14 04:28 am   Permalink

Interesting reading, and I LOVE hearing artists philosophies on art! I prefer non-digital art as a general rule. But that goes along with me liking old cars with drum brakes and chrome bumpers, single speed bikes with back pedal brakes, and so on... Seeing Doug's art was one of the first times I really turned onto digital art.

My biggest gripe about digital art is the undo button. However as has been pointed out, doesnt matter how good the computer is the human behind the mouse still needs to know what they're doing. All the crap digital art out there is proof of this!

On a slightly related topic - Appplying a posterising filter or putting a heap of contrast on your crap photo does not make it a good photo!
_________________
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THOR's
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Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Posts: 595
Posted: 2011-07-14 12:26 pm   Permalink

Funny all this discussion came up here at his time. Having experience in both fine art and the pressures of the Entertainment Industry and Illustration...as I said earlier and some are also saying..."context" and such really important. Here is an example I am currently using digital tools on..though did it the old fashion way for 40 some years.. I have a large commission from one of my collectors. This one is in Canada. He and bought a lot of my prints over the years and especially liked the piece I did called "Hawaiian Hold-em" since he and his 6 buddies play "Texas Hold-Em" in his "man cave" every thursday evening.

They smoke cigars and drink Scotch and snack on Ritz crackers and pretzles...etc. This customer is in a wheel chair and asked if I could somehow get that in here too...tall order!So, that gecko in front has a lil' "wheel chair" made of two Ritz crackers, a toothpick axle and a cork seat! He loved this idea!

Anyway, he has commission a large piece to be featured over the bar in his "man cave" which is full of deep dark wood, leather couches..and full bar...pretty slick. 24" by 36", oil. He said "Do something kinna like your Gecko's playing Hawaiian hold'em...but can I make them around Scotch and scotch bottles....and have a lit cigar in it...and play on "man cave" but all with a slight Hawaii twist with the gecko's and a lava rock pocket(lil' cave) they are playing in front off...etc. This is typical of a commission...I have words and have to put all these things into a composition that works...it has to lead the eye around...have flow..have light sources that feel believable...no reference other than my own brain.

Anyway...below are two digital sketches. The first is actually the second sketch I showed him...(first not included)....cleaned up a little..still just rough lines and notes all over the thing. I drew this TOTALLY on a Wacom tablet looking at my monitor. It's a digital sketch.

Second sketch below is also totally digital. I sketched and "painted" using photoshop and a digital pen...no reference or tricks...it was just like using paint..I could "paint" over my line sketch...think out the lighting lodgic in my head...and stay loose. If the customer likes this..I can use it like any painter would as my "value sketch"....then blow up the line drawing on canvas..and looking at this value sketch, incorporate color and al lthe bells an whistles in actual oils. Advantage of digital for early design for me is that if this customer says...Ohhh I like it but can you change the scotch bottle to Tiki or candle...or can you make the geckos all bigger in this composition.

Well, instead of taking out tracing paper like the old scool taught and patching and such...I can access the layer or area on either of these sketches, draw a loop around the gecko's, hit "enlarge scale" and then go back and "paint" areas around to fit the new change. Time on computer would be maybe 2-5 minutes. Time in old way? an hour maybe. Since this guy is paying a healthy sum for an "original" in oil on canvas in the end of all this, I saved time on this "design phase", the customer feels far more "a part" of the process, cus I am open to many changes to please them since it is so fast to do so. I still need to know composition, perspective, and how to draw though...or the computer would be a useless tool in this case.
So.I am sharing the "in progress" with you all. I just sent these to the guy who commissioned me too and will see his response. This is an interesting sharing experience from all...and maybe as we throw al this in the air...we can all get a feel for what digital art is...when it is "likable" and when it is a "crutch".

Either way..we all learn something. The bottom sketch, as "production art" digitally is fun and very efficient for me. Only draw back...is if we look at this in context of "fine art", if this guy askes to buy the layout "sketch"..which has happened many tines in past work where I did stuff on paper... I gained speed but lose $ for that extra art original to sell. It's give an take eh?

~~~~~~THOR
















 
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Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-14 12:35 pm   Permalink

A great example of what computers do in the process, Thor.
yet it is all about the skill set.


 
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GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6910
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-14 2:30 pm   Permalink

Excellent example Master Thor. GROG love seeing artists work-in-progress shots. (P.S. Your painting for the new Tiki Magazine cover looks great.)

GROG did the same thing with GROG' Mermaid and Moai statue. However, the original drawing was done in blue col-erase pencil on animation paper. GROG scanner not work with new computer, so GROG take digital photo to get it into computer. GROG then did several different quick color thumbnails in Photoshop to work out color, lighting, and mood. Eventually GROG want to do the final as traditional art, but the computer definitefly sped up the thumbnail developement stage.( It would go even faster if GROG would hook GROG' Cintiq up instead of painting on the computer with a mouse!) You can also see how GROG changed the mermaid head to face the Moai by adding it on in Photoshop, and also in the first color thumbnail you can se how GROG shrink the mermaid in the piece. Both changes took minutes in Photoshop, but like Thor said, would have taken much longer to redraw tradionally.








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GROG miss Tiki-Kate



[ This Message was edited by: grog 2011-07-14 18:36 ]


 
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THOR's
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Posts: 595
Posted: 2011-07-14 3:24 pm   Permalink

VERY COOL GROGSTER!!!

 
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Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-14 5:36 pm   Permalink

Now that's what I'm talking about, very nice.

 
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zerostreet
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Joined: Feb 06, 2010
Posts: 1959
From: http://www.zerostreet.com
Posted: 2011-07-14 6:14 pm   Permalink

Excellent words and pics in this thread Thor! And as I said before, great drawing Grog!

 
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GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6910
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-14 6:56 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-07-13 10:44, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
Grog's bread and butter is even more elusive, "Animation" is a real niche area and most of it has been farmed out overseas, maybe Grog can touch on just how many Animation jobs are available in the USA now?



There aren't any major tradional "2-D" hand-drawn film or TV productions going on in the U.S.A. that GROG know of. The TV shows are farmed out overseas, but they are storyboarded here in the U.S.A. on computer. And the animated movies are all CGI (computer generated images). Some minor Productions like Bill Plymptons films and art film shorts may still use more traditional methods, but the computer is involved in some aspect in most every production now in the U.S.

Found this on the internet:


Digital ink and paint
The current process, termed "digital ink and paint," is the same as traditional ink and paint until after the animation drawings are completed; instead of being transferred to cels, the animators' drawings are scanned into a computer, where they are coloured and processed using one or more of a variety of software packages. The resulting drawings are composited in the computer over their respective backgrounds, which have also been scanned into the computer (if not digitally painted), and the computer outputs the final film by either exporting a digital video file, using a video cassette recorder, or printing to film using a high-resolution output device. Use of computers allows for easier exchange of artwork between departments, studios, and even countries and continents (in most low-budget animated productions, the bulk of the animation is actually done by animators working in other countries, including South Korea, Japan, Singapore, Mexico, and India).

The last major feature film to use traditional ink and paint was Studio Ghibli's Princess Mononoke (1997); the last major animation production to use the traditional process is Cartoon Network's Ed, Edd n Eddy (19992009), although it was forced to switch to digital paint in 2004.[1] Minor productions such as Hair High (2004) by Bill Plympton have used traditional cels long after the introduction of digital techniques. Digital ink and paint has been in use at Walt Disney Feature Animation since 1989, where it was used for the final rainbow shot in The Little Mermaid. All subsequent Disney animated features were digitally inked-and-painted (starting with The Rescuers Down Under, which was also the first major feature film to entirely use digital ink and paint), using Disney's proprietary CAPS (Computer Animation Production System) technology, developed primarily by Pixar (the last Disney feature using CAPS was Home on the Range). Most other studios use one of a number of other high-end software packages such as Toon Boom Harmony, Toonz, Animo, and even consumer-level applications such as Adobe Flash, Toon Boom Studio and TVPaint.



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GROG miss Tiki-Kate

[ This Message was edited by: GROG 2011-07-14 18:57 ]


 
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Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-14 9:25 pm   Permalink

Grog you obviously have computer skills on top of all your other Art skills
do you do all digital "Computer Animation"?


 
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GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6910
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-15 10:51 am   Permalink

Nope. Haven't learned any computer animation or programs like FLASH. Too busy doing these damned ceramics.


_________________

GROG miss Tiki-Kate


 
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