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Tiki Central Forums Creating Tiki Other Crafts Digital art discussion
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Digital art discussion
GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6910
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-15 11:22 am   Permalink

The cover illustration GROG did for Tiki Magazine was ALL Photoshop. GROG originally want to do it tradional medium, like acrylics or watercolor, but GROG wanted to be sure and have Ben in the Maikai shirt, and that was going to be so much detail it would have taken forever. So, GROG decide to do it all digital. Still, it take GROG a week to complete (not full 8 hour days, though). In the end GROG was able to get the image GROG had envisioned in GROG' mind, and that was the bottom line---what medium could best get the final image that GROG had imagined, and that was digital.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0ufD6IKWIsQ/SBjV9KyD78I/AAAAAAAADtA/pHWw5aMwnIs/s1600-h/TM+Cover+10+-+Ben.jpg


Ben's body is actually 4 different photos combined and manipulated in Photoshop to get the pose GROG wanted. His head, both arms. and his body are all separate photos, and they still all had to be tweaked also.

The Bamboo Ben comic GROG does for Tiki Magazine is a combination traditional and digital. It is drawn and inked by hand, and then colored in the computer. GROG an animator, not a comic artist, so if not for the computer simplifying the process for making the comic, there probably wouldn't be a Bamboo Ben comic. The bad part is, that when GROG mess up some of the inking and drawing part, GROG not redraw it, GROG just scan into Photoshop and fix the images in there. So, GROG can't really sell any of the original Bamboo Ben comic art, because most of it doesn't match the final comic, and also GROG not do the comic the way most comics are done. Instead of drawing out the comic panel and inking it, GROG draw the elements, like the backgrounds and characters, separate and then combine them in Photoshop. GROG then crop the image and put the border on the panel. And that is not the way most comic artists do their comics.

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GROG miss Tiki-Kate


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Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-15 12:05 pm   Permalink

But you could sell a limited run of prints?

 
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GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6910
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-15 12:34 pm   Permalink

Si.

 
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hewey
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4278
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2011-07-16 04:24 am   Permalink

Interesting posts from both Grog and Thor from the artists perspective. Thought I'd share my experience of a similar process from the customers perspective.

About a year ago I approached Dutch artist Herr Rudolph to basically reproduce this picture below of Liana (on my Taboo Tiki bike). I loved his style of art, and was pretty confident this pic would be a good basis/reference for him. We agreed on a price and went from there.


First of all he knocked up quick sketch and emailed it to me to make sure I was happy with the layout. Sure was.


Once I said I was happy with that he scanned it onto his computer and send me these digital mock ups. I told him I liked the one on the left,as the orange hibiscus ties in with the orange rims and orange grips. I also said I like the tiki light on the front guard like it is on the right. I wasnt real happy with the roller door background (I never liked that about the original image), but I liked his choice of colour. I sent him a link to TC and suggested he do something like the tapa wallpaper on here. Which is pretty fitting because Liana and I met on here!


He then sent me through this revised digital mock up, now we're getting there! Yup, green light, put paint to canvas.


And this is the final painting below. I LOVE that I have an original piece of art where you can see the brushstrokes and the texture of the painting - no print or digital art is going to have the same soul to it. But speaking as a customer, the digital art was awesome in refining the artwork and getting something that 100% nailed exactly what I'd envisioned in my head. As a customer (be it something like this, or getting some digital design done for work), I'm very fussy about how things look.

And the finished piece.




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THOR's
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Posts: 595
Posted: 2011-07-16 07:07 am   Permalink

Perfect example of the digital tool used as a way to "stage" a painting and allow freedom to play with elements quickly and to the satisfaction of a buyer...then bring in the traditional tools to inject the "soul" and original. No "crutch" here for lack of talent....great example. This would fall into the "fine art" context I would say, since that was the intent of the final result of the process.

Technology arguments have always been a subject of debate in art. Norman Rockwell (by the way...ABSOLUTELY AWESOME COVER you did, Ernie, for Tiki Mag on that issue with Ben!) used to use an early version of image projector he called a "baloptocan" sp?). He used this to take a drawing or photo he took of a model and project it onto a surface so he could trace it. Many said he was "cheating"..but his argument was that he COULD DRAW without question without the thing..but it gave him a speed and advantage of trying different scales..etc. that allowed him to maximize his potential output for "Saturday Evening Post".

I think my opinion stand that again, as a tool that catalyzes the talent of an artist who could create impacting art and exhibit exceptional skill with a yellow #2 pencil and a stack of white paper or on a canvas with a brush and pigment without digital back up...is, in "classic terms"..a true visual artist. A designer lacking this ability and using the tricks and clicks and scans and filters and such of a computer as their only means of being able to make images that impress people, is a "technician" in my mind. A different level of respect.

No different than if a person were to have a program to write music that had formulated filters, harmony or chord changing tools that formulated to sound good to the ear, etc. where you could "borrow" riffs, no fail chord strums on a Martin Guitar in sound without ever having touched a guitar...blah blah. You can argue the better a person's "ear for music" is the more likely the end product will sound more authentic....but the skills were greatly technical adjustments and skill sets. Again, I say this from witnessing, working closely with all level of talents both technical and traditional. Students in my classes, co-workers and just fellow friends who are some form of creative minded spirit.

I am having fun exploring digital art. It's like an etch-a-sketch on steroids in my book!! But, Classical skilled artists have always fascinated people the most. Not unlike watching a tightrope walker as they exhibit years of hand, eye, mind and body skill to defy gravity using a pole and their feet on a wire. If we give them a mechanical leotard (let's call it an "I-Tard")that is wired to a data base that fires signals off to their muscles to maintain perfect balance...they could perhaps accomplish feats anything we have seen to date! But is their skill still as "magical" to us? Would it not be less entertaining after a while..when their is no sense of human error adjustment or the way they walk seem just not the same? I dunno... Just thinking out loud here on this thread. Always with the argument that we can have strong opinions on this subject based on the context we insert it into.

OK...had my Sat. AM coffee and heading for a hike and then to my studio. Have a great weekend all!



 
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MadDogMike
Grand Member (7 years)  

Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 7364
From: The Anvil of the Sun
Posted: 2011-07-16 11:03 am   Permalink

Sorry Thor, "I-Tard" is already taken - that's the retards who walk around all day with an iPhone to their heads
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THOR's
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Posts: 595
Posted: 2011-07-16 4:13 pm   Permalink

HAAAA U are right on that one
MDM! lol!


 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2011-07-20 8:50 pm   Permalink

I'm a new guy here. I joined up a few days ago mainly because I became interested in this digital art discussion. I have been reading the forum for quite some time and found my feelings hurt when a number of the posters here said that computer art has no soul. I've been doing computer graphics for a very long time and I don't mind folks judging my work for quality, but it does make me sad that someone would call it soulless. No mater what tools I use, the main tool is my imagination.

This discussion has always gone on in art. There were folks who said Picasso's art or Pollack's art or many others who took art a new direction had no soul. But that is what art is, a journey of discovery. I'm old enough to remember when folks said the same about acrylic paint. It was just fake oil, they said. A good artist finds tools that works for them and should be judged by their art and not those tools.

I think most complainers have not used a computer to create. It would help if you tried. If you always wanted to carve a Tiki, check out a free program that can be found on line called Sculptris. Ten minutes with this software may open your eyes to the possibilities of creating on a computer.


 
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GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6910
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-21 02:02 am   Permalink

Welcome Gene, and thanks for contributing to the digital art discussion.

 
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teaKEY
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Posts: 3664
From: The thumb !
Posted: 2011-07-21 05:23 am   Permalink

Whoa Hewey. Thats a nice piece.

 
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Zeta
Grand Member (2 years)  

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 2049
From: Atlantis/Basque Country/Spain/Mexico
Posted: 2011-07-22 07:20 am   Permalink

This is theoretical talking. I don't mean to offend anyone and nothing is written in stone.

Do you like "Live" music where the artist press buttons in his Macs and beat boxes?
Do you like Barry Bonds breaking the home run record on steroids?
Do you like french fries that don't decompose for weeks?

I don't

Technology is not always good.


 
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THOR's
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Posts: 595
Posted: 2011-07-22 6:18 pm   Permalink

I think we went back a bit here Zeta... Read all the comments through and you will understand better that there is no need to hammer "digital art" or technology as a negative...it's all about "context" of any tool to create and I think you will see this if you really listen to everyone and be open as an artist should.

Best to focus on what brings YOU yourself a tool that expresses your creative spirit and shows your talent....the outcome will measure the skill of both mind and heart. If the soul is there...as I see many artists who use digital mediums say, it comes through...If not..you have pixels and data, with no heart. Same as an unskilled painter who cannot mix the hues that speak to someones empotions and inspire their response.

I feel very enlightened by this thread...and it actually inspired me to play with "Sculptris"!!! I HATE it..know why? I can't stop playing with it thanks to you Gene!!! LOL!! Really though..thanks Gene..you contributes a great part to this thread and a toy for the creative minds.

Have a great weekend....



[ This Message was edited by: THOR's 2011-07-22 18:46 ]


 
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ZeroTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 825
From: Rohnert Park, California
Posted: 2011-07-22 7:28 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-07-22 18:18, THOR's wrote:If the soul is there...as I see many artists who use digital mediums say, it comes through...If not..you have pixels and data, with no heart. Same as an unskilled painter who cannot mix the hues that speak to someones emotions and inspire their response.



Bravo. That really gets to the heart of the matter for me: the heart of the artist. There are incredibly talented artists that have work that, to me, seems empty. Conversely, there are digital pieces that make my heart sing. I can only appreciate what causes my soul to rise. I cannot say the other is not art, just not art for me.
~Zero


 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2011-07-22 7:43 pm   Permalink

Thanks Thor (Tom) ... I'm sure glad you tried Sculptris. I bet you make some amazing stuff with it. All of your art is amazing .....
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VampiressRN
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 23, 2006
Posts: 5772
From: Sun City Lincoln Hills (NorCal)
Posted: 2011-07-22 8:21 pm   Permalink

I haven't read through all of this but will go back later as I find this very interesting. I don't expect to be a digital artist, but soooo wish I had some skills. Sure I have the applications and the books but need someone to show me what to do as that is how I learn. I would so love to take a 1x1 class on use of Photoshop. I struggle at work trying to build e-Learning products because I don't have the skills in graphic, video and audio applications. I spent a fortune buying Director for myself...haven't got a clue how to use it. JEALOUS of all the folks that have the digital skills. I do like digital art.

I also understand the dying art of hand-drawing/art but think that will turn around some day. Same thing is happening to many other skills...such as cursive writing...might even be deleted as something taught in school, kids can't count back change without the cash-register doing it for them-they have no math skills, Borders Books closing its doors due to e-Readers. Sign of the times...but the old masters and genius's works still ring true.

Tiki artists digital and old school are all appreciated in my book.

Grog...when can I sign up for my private Photoshop lessons????



[ This Message was edited by: VampiressRN 2011-07-22 20:25 ]


 
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