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Tiki Central Forums Beyond Tiki Shag should do a tomorrowland make-over
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Shag should do a tomorrowland make-over
Feelin' Zombified
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Joined: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 1329
From: The Exotic Shores of Lake St. Clair
Posted: 2004-08-30 2:29 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-08-30 14:10, cynfulcynner wrote:
Quote:

On 2004-08-30 13:18, dangergirl299 wrote:
As for the comment above about not drinking in Disneyland: you can drink beer and wine just across the way in the CA Adventure, and just outside the gates in Downtown Disney



You can drink at Club 33 in New Orleans Square -- if you can get in.






Yeah yeah yeah. I know all that, but wouldn't it be fun to have some Stoli on Space MT., rum in Pirates, a bloody mary in the Haunted Mansion or a mai tai in the TikiRoom?

-Z


 
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Unga Bunga
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Joined: Jun 06, 2003
Posts: 5808
From: CaliTikifornia
Posted: 2004-08-30 3:27 pm   Permalink

Monsanto's "House of the Future" at Disneyland, 1957.
Read this short exert. Amazingly, everything the house predicted, came true.
http://www.yesterland.com/futurehouse.html


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dangergirl299
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Feb 18, 2003
Posts: 893
From: Bay Area
Posted: 2004-08-30 3:37 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-08-30 15:27, Unga Bunga wrote:
Monsanto's "House of the Future" at Disneyland, 1957.
Read this short exert. Amazingly, everything the house predicted, came true.
http://www.yesterland.com/futurehouse.html



I want to live in a house that wrecking balls bounce off of! Like a Nerf house!

That's now the site where you can get your pic taken with Ariel.


 
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Tiki-bot
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Joined: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 1345
Posted: 2004-08-30 4:11 pm   Permalink

Nice link, Unga. But the fact that their "predictions" came true isn't so astounding when you consider it was the very industries that built those attractions whose technologies were being promoted. They essentially used the attractions to "sell" them to the public, and they seemed to be mostly successful at it.

I don't have any problem with this except that it imposes limits on imagination. Corprations are only interested in promoting what they can sell now or the very near future, and are fairly myopic when it comes to exploring the many other opportunities that might exist for those products. I don't recall any of those exhibits saying we would use lasers to read compact disks, though the lasers' first patent was submitted in 1959.

I agree with ARJ that the future image should be of a positive one. Many people can appreciate dystopian imagery when it's used for effect in a movie or book, but would generally feel it is not appropriate for a theme park, at least not Disneyland.

It would be very difficult to come up with an entirely new futuristic archetype since product cycles are a tiny fraction of what they once were. Almost any design would tend to look dated almost instantly. I think it _is_ possible, but it would take an awful lot of skill and careful thought. Personaly, I would find that a fascinating job, though I am not known to possess either of those traits.
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BaronV
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 204
From: Moving again...
Posted: 2004-09-01 4:51 pm   Permalink

The present has always sucked, it's just the past thirty years or so that the tide changed and the majority started believing that the future would suck too.

 
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tiki mick
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Joined: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 398
From: Socal
Posted: 2004-09-02 10:35 am   Permalink

I think it started happening when Blade runner came out....that movie all to accurately predicted a dark and dirty future..gone was the optimism shown by Disney!

Unfortunatly, Disney was wrong and Ridley Scott was right!


 
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freddiefreelance
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Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 2990
From: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: 2004-09-02 1:03 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-08-30 14:09, aquarj wrote:
Quote:
I don't want to see THE future as per the way things are going......At least there was excitement and hope about the future back then.



I don't know, guys - personally I still choose optimism, even if it might be called blind. I can't stand dystopian future themes. No offense if other people like to focus on the negative, but personally I don't see the attraction.

Remember that in the 50s and 60s, the Cold War presented the prospect of total mutually assured destruction, something that people often overlook when looking back today and seeing the technology-driven optimism of the mid-century. Also remember that theme parks are about escapism! At least that's why I like them, and why I like tiki too for that matter. Nobody in the 50s was interested in visiting nuclear-winter-land, even though that was one of the stark realities of the day. I do agree though that people have probably gotten more sophisticated and skeptical about the future that is marketed to them, and that there actually may be a larger proportion of the population that somehow enjoys visions of a dark future. But I'm not in that group.

If you really look around, many of the mid-century futurist concepts have come to life! Picture phones, image walls (ie, flat panel TVs), instant worldwide communications, centralized and distributed in-home controls, GPS, and on and on. Even 25 years ago a lot of this would've been pure fantasy.

Regarding Shag and Tomorrowland, actually I wouldn't use the term retro for Shag. I think his style is more about a specific esthetic than about a specific time. My opinion is that he could develop some fantastic designs for Tomorrowland, not necessarily sticking to the style of his paintings, but just based on his esthetic and also his extensive "graphic vocabulary". But still, I'm not sure that he'd be the right person.

Someone like Frank Gehry could do a neat job. He seems like one of the best known modern architects with the ability to offer a modern, non-retro vision of the optimistic future. In fact, look at the convention center that Disney already had him design. But still, everything by Gehry looks just like Gehry, so there would probably be too much individual identity, as opposed to a broader future theme.

-Randy



I gotta agree here, the future holds alot of promise. We already have:

Robot Vacumns, like Roomba from iRobot;


Flying Cars, like the M400 from Moller;


Mega-Float Floating islands, like this test airstrip in Tokyo Bay.


Imagine future developments like space environments that are Fuller spheres made made up of inflated polygonal plastic bubbles with carbon nanotube spars & wires in tension for structural integrity, built like russian nesting dolls with micro-G water filled algae & krill farms on the outside to create air & protein, and to absorb radiation & micrometeorites before they can reach the inner spheres' living quarters.

Or a sea going, floating city with a population of several million, that's built out of thousands of individual interlinked floating blocks, powered by nothing more than the temprature differential between the surface & the water 100 feet below the water, and that can travel around the ocean like a giant Portugese Man-O-War.

Or using a series of hollowed out asteroids set in eccentric, cometary orbits outside of the plane of the ecliptic to run as "shuttles" between the Earth & Mars, the asteroid belt & the outer solar system's Gas Giants (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus & Neptune) to transfer goods & people "up" to the outer solar system and send goods & raw materials back "down" here.

Or starships traveling to our nearest exrasolar neighbors powered by hexagonal solar sails miles on a side but only 2 atoms thick and driven forward by nothing more than the weight of the photons in a ray of sunshine; sails raised, reefed & repaired by an army of tiny insect-like robots, and pulling a payload of 500 people & everything they need to build their own space environments around another star, & build more starships to go even further out...
_________________
Rev. Dr. Frederick J. Freelance, Ph.D., Th.D., D.F.S


 
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Tiki Matt
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 924
From: North O.C.
Posted: 2004-09-02 3:55 pm   Permalink

This is the way it should be...

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BaronV
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Oct 10, 2003
Posts: 204
From: Moving again...
Posted: 2004-09-03 01:50 am   Permalink

Quote:

Unfortunatly, Disney was wrong and Ridley Scott was right!



i don't agree. i've walked through some very "Blade Runner-ish" cities - Tokyo, Riyadh, Osaka, Shanghai, Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong - and haven't seen anything "cyberpunk." I usually see happy people wandering around, drinking Cokes, and eating hamburgers (even the women in Riyadh who are stuck wearing their "garb").

Ridley Scott has 15 years to prove himself right - i bet there won't even be those cool umbrellas with lights by then (unfortunately).

Katsuhiro Otomo has already been corrected - where's Neo-Tokyo?

William Gibson is even upbeat nowadays - where'd the beast-USSR go?

You would think all the anti-depressants Americans are taking would lighten them up a little...


 
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Tiki-bot
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Joined: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 1345
Posted: 2004-09-03 02:26 am   Permalink

Actually, when I think of what the future will look like, I can't get "Brazil" out of my head. It really seems the most prescient of "future movies". It's an almost unbearably morbid scene, but when the terrorist attack happens in the restaurant and they put up a divider and emplore patrons to keep eating, I get the sickly feeling that this is about 30 seconds into our own future. Or the present if you live in Isreal.

I love the view of the future in that film. It's not the one I want to live, but is certainly the one that seems most likely at this point.
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tiki mick
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Joined: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 398
From: Socal
Posted: 2004-09-03 09:30 am   Permalink

Oh man, that picture of tommorrowland terrace is so freaking cool! Thanks for sharing!!!!!

I remember some of the names of the house band that played there...friendship train, sunshine balloon,...(or was it the other way around?)

anyway, I remember being about 10 and just totally rocking out to the band..while my brother and sister went on the scary rides like space mountain, I was totally into the band.I remember thinking "that bass drum is so well miked"!! As I recall, it was Disco/top forty that they played..right on!!


 
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cynfulcynner
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Joined: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 1800
From: Ocean Beach, San Francisco
Posted: 2004-09-03 10:38 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-03 02:26, Tiki-bot wrote:
Actually, when I think of what the future will look like, I can't get "Brazil" out of my head.



After working at a job that required me to do business with various San Francisco city agencies, I can tell you that the future depicted in "Brazil" is already here, but no one speaks your language.



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Tiki Matt
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 924
From: North O.C.
Posted: 2004-09-03 4:36 pm   Permalink

Quote:
I remember some of the names of the house band that played there...friendship train, sunshine balloon,...(or was it the other way around?)



What about Polo?
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Philot
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Joined: Apr 04, 2003
Posts: 196
From: The armpit of Florida
Posted: 2004-09-05 11:42 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-08-30 14:09, aquarj wrote:

If you really look around, many of the mid-century futurist concepts have come to life! Picture phones, image walls (ie, flat panel TVs), instant worldwide communications, centralized and distributed in-home controls, GPS, and on and on. Even 25 years ago a lot of this would've been pure fantasy.






As much as I appreciate Shag, I find that I must agree that Tommorrowland should be an optimistic view of the potential future. And aquarj tells us why right above. People, _particularly children_ saw all these cool futuristic ideas at Disney, Star Trek and such, and over 20, 30, 50 years, went out and made them happen.. We still need that.

The dystopias that became fashionable in the 70's and on also serve as a needed warning so that people may choose to prevent them from occuring. But, since D-Land bills itself as "The Happiest Place On Earth" (tm), they should stick to selling the optimistic view. I don't need Disney to make me maudlin about the unfulfilled promise of atomic flying cars and moon cities.




\

[ This Message was edited by: Philot on 2004-09-05 23:47 ]


 
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Hot Lava
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Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 190
From: Saint Petersburg, FL
Posted: 2004-09-06 9:33 pm   Permalink

Funny you should mention Lebbeus Woods -- I think his work did influence WDW's Tomorrowland makeover to a certain degree. There is a series of overhangs on top of the revamped Mission to Mars/Alien Encounter/Stitch's Escape building that are eerily similar to one of his painting in a book I have.

I don't know if we'll ever see a 'real' Tomorrowland again. The creative juices don't seem to be flowing in Glendale anymore, at least as far as Tomorrowlands go. I had an interview there about a decade ago in a misguided attempt to become an Imagineer -- my portfolio project was a revamp of WDW's Tomorrowland that took place in the future, would have been relatively cheap to build, and would have been pretty darn cool if I say to myself.

Note to future designers: Tomorrowland doesn't have to be on Earth.


 
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