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Tiki Central Forums Beyond Tiki 3rd anniversary of 9/11
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3rd anniversary of 9/11
Tiki_Bong
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Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 0
Posted: 2004-09-12 10:35 am   Permalink

Picture this: ***** NewsFlash *****

"A radical group of native Hawaiians have bombed a Federal building in downtown Chicago. The group - Kama'aina First - claims that the deaths inflicted by the bombing pale in comparison to the destruction of the native Hawaiian people and their culture. The groups spokeman - Kimo Haku'ole - claims that because the US stole the Hawaiian islands and subjected its people to death and cultural destruction, payback is a motherfu#(#*"

Or replace native Hawaiian with native American. Please, what are your thoughts?

_________________
"I'm ashamed to be here, but not too ashamed to leave..."

Celebrate 'International Tiki Day' the second Saturday in August - hau'oli la tiki!

[ This Message was edited by: Tiki_Bong on 2004-09-12 10:36 ]


    
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Tiki_Bong
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Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 0
Posted: 2004-09-12 11:04 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-11 18:16, TNTiki wrote:
Bong, here's to you and your relatives.



Wow! I'm impressed. Great comeback!

And here's to your family tree also TNTiki, which I understand in the fine state of Tenn usually consists of a single branch.


    
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Satan's Sin
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 729
From: Imperial Beach, CA
Posted: 2004-09-12 11:04 am   Permalink

Bong, I am with you and I have an even better analogy, but unless Hanford or some other moderator declares this a "politics okay to discuss thread" am hesitant to elaborate. Unless you want to meet in some other forum.

[ This Message was edited by: Satan's Sin on 2004-09-12 12:11 ]


 
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Kono
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Oct 08, 2003
Posts: 1266
From: Orlando
Posted: 2004-09-12 5:15 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-12 10:35, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Please, what are your thoughts?



Inappropriate.

Ineffectual.

In poor taste.

Weak analogy.

Not in the spirit of Tiki Central.

Just off the top of my head...


 
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TNTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
Posted: 2004-09-12 5:58 pm   Permalink



[ This Message was edited by: TNTiki on 2004-11-06 15:18 ]


 
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Tiki_Bong
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Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 0
Posted: 2004-09-12 5:59 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-12 17:15, Kono wrote:
Quote:

On 2004-09-12 10:35, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Please, what are your thoughts?



Inappropriate.

Ineffectual.

In poor taste.

Weak analogy.

Not in the spirit of Tiki Central.

Just off the top of my head...




And rightly so, let's not talk about things that make us think objectively...


    
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Tiki_Bong
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Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 0
Posted: 2004-09-12 6:10 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-12 17:58, TNTiki wrote:
Yeah, as they say around here, truly the apple does not fall too far from the tree. I am surprised I figured out how to use this computer thing what with all of my genes coming from the same pool, and it being shallow and all. My mother, who is also my aunt and my sister and my grandmother, always told me to keep it simple stupid. So here it goes: screw you.

I must have misunderstood something you wrote. There was no harm or disrespect indended in what I wrote, as inelegant as it was. There was no "comeback" indended.




TNTiki,

If you indeed meant no disrespect, you have my sincere appology. It's just that from a internet-perspective, your choice of words did not come off as such.

Am I bitter about the mistreatment of my relatives, whether Eastern European or Native American, yes. Do I mean any unintentional disrepect to fellow TC's, no.

Sincerely,

Tiki Bong


    
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tikibars
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 2024
From: Aku Hall, Chicago
Posted: 2004-09-12 6:17 pm   Permalink

I think the important thing to think about here is that although there are two very different attitudes being expressed in this thread, they're BOTH right.

Posts by Bong and Kha_o pointing out the complacency, ignorance, and greed that characterize Americans (from the point of view of many people around the world) seem very negative and out of place in a thread that was started as a memorial to those that tragically died on September 11, 2001.

Those that died in Washington, New York, and Pennsylvania on that day were not soldiers or politicians, they were civilians.

The suffering of those people, their families, and all the rest of us is not to be forgotten and cannot be understated.

Some of the memorials and annecdotes here are powerful, and should be cherished.

HOWEVER, the reason that these terrorists hate Americans so much are reasons that are somewhat valid (though terrorism, of course, is not the answer). In other words - we asked for it, to a degree.

In order to prevent further attrocities, we need to consider some of the points made by some of the more cynical posters to this thread - while also remembering the tragedy and sacrifice of those who died - and change the way we treat the rest of the world.

Look at it this way: if there's a family picnic, and your cousin goes and whacks a bee hive with a stick, and it pisses off the bees, and some of your other family members get stung when the bees go crazy defending their nest, well, we will help and heal those stung as best we can. But we can't blame the bees if it was members of our own family who whacked their home with a stick. Killing all the bees isn't the answer - it's that rowdy cousin who we need to reprimand, family member or not.

If we leave the bees alone, we can have our picnic, while they pollinate flowers and make honey (oil!). If our cousin fucks with the bees, WE get stung. So it's the cousin who needs some lessons. America needs some family counciling, BIG TIME!


 
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TNTiki
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Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
Posted: 2004-09-12 6:21 pm   Permalink



[ This Message was edited by: TNTiki on 2004-11-06 15:19 ]


 
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Kono
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Joined: Oct 08, 2003
Posts: 1266
From: Orlando
Posted: 2004-09-12 6:28 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-12 17:59, Tiki_Bong wrote:
And rightly so, let's not talk about things that make us think objectively...



This site's membership isn't made up of a bunch of 19yo college freshmen (no offense to any 19yo freshmen intended!). Most people here have lived a few years and have already thought these things through. You're not going to shock anyone into seeing things from your perspective, unless that perspective is already shared.

Your inference would seem to be that the act was on some level deserved and I doubt you'll find many supporters of that position. Objectivity is best achieved by examining facts, not analogies or rhetoric, ill conceived or not. Regardless, this thread was being used by people to share their feelings about a tragedy that occurred three years ago. Hijacking it to insert a personal political statement is inappropriate and in poor taste in my opinion; not to mention the fact that discussing politics is against the wishes of the man who runs this place.

[ This Message was edited by: Kono on 2004-09-12 18:51 ]


 
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Shipwreckjoey
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Joined: Nov 29, 2002
Posts: 1794
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2004-09-12 7:12 pm   Permalink

My job took me out to a U.S. Navy Amphibious Assault ship last year that had just returned from the Persian Gulf. The ship had submitted a work request to upgrade the air conditioning systems in their Cargo Ammo Holds. When I got down to the first hold I noticed the ordinance hadn't been offloaded yet. As I walked between racks of bombs I begin to notice most of them had names written on them in chalk. Upon closer inspection the names on those bombs were those of passengers on the four airliners that went down on 9/11 complete with flight number and (in some cases) seat number. If I had forgot, that sure would've reminded me!

 
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donhonyc
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Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Posts: 1173
From: The Quiet EAST Village
Posted: 2004-09-12 7:37 pm   Permalink

Quote:


Look at it this way: if there's a family picnic, and your cousin goes and whacks a bee hive with a stick, and it pisses off the bees, and some of your other family members get stung when the bees go crazy defending their nest, well, we will help and heal those stung as best we can. But we can't blame the bees if it was members of our own family who whacked their home with a stick. Killing all the bees isn't the answer - it's that rowdy cousin who we need to reprimand, family member or not.

If we leave the bees alone, we can have our picnic, while they pollinate flowers and make honey (oil!). If our cousin fucks with the bees, WE get stung. So it's the cousin who needs some lessons. America needs some family counciling, BIG TIME!



Great analogy and one, by the way, that I have heard used before in varying degrees. So it seems that some of us are using our heads when thinking about all this. Let's just hope that the 'counseling' comes sooner (ahem...November) rather than later. It never ceases to amaze me that we can make this analogy you have just described, yet any advances to avoid situations like this defy common logic. And while writing this I can just hear some political pundit saying "well...it's not as simple as batting a beehive". And I know there are folks out there that would say that. To them I say 'It's SIMPLER than you think" The operative word here is 'think'....let's start doing that.

[ This Message was edited by: donhonyc on 2004-09-12 19:41 ]


 
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Shipwreckjoey
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Joined: Nov 29, 2002
Posts: 1794
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2004-09-13 12:37 am   Permalink

[quote]
On 2004-09-12 19:37, donhonyc wrote:
Quote:

And while writing this I can just hear some political pundit saying "well...it's not as simple as batting a beehive". And I know there are folks out there that would say that. To them I say 'It's SIMPLER than you think"


K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid. If this policy worked for a fabulously popular, wildly sucessful, world renowned rock band with minimal talent and only one hit song for the last 30 years maybe our government should give it a try.



 
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Satan's Sin
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 729
From: Imperial Beach, CA
Posted: 2004-09-13 08:29 am   Permalink

I think Osama et. al. should be hunted down like dogs, but this thing did not happen because they are boogeymen who envy us our goodness.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Imagine Saudi Arabia as the most powerful, dynamic country in the world. Imagine the U.S. as a corrupt monarchy with only one industry (oil exports) and no future for our young men and women, unless they happen to be related to the royal family.

Imagine a gigantic Royal Saudi Arabian Air Force Base in the middle of Kansas -- for our "regional security." Imagine being able to look out from a skyscraper in New York or Los Angeles and see cruising just offshore a Saudi Arabian Carrier Battle Group -- again, for our "regional security." A Carrier Battle Group is the most potent weapons systems ever invented, quite capable of going anywhere in the world and destroying entire cities, if not countries. No other country in the world has even one Carrier Battle Group. But the Saudis have twelve. Not that there's a war on. Not that anybody's threatening the Saudis. But here they are -- in international waters, of course, where they have every right to be -- conducting flight operations within sight of L.A. or N.Y. And the Saudis and the U.S. royal family keep telling us that everything is "cool."

Can anyone imagine a U.S. citizen going a little bonkers over this situation ... ?

Osama is wrong. Osama -- or whoever replaces him -- will never "win." But this thing did not happen in a vaccum.


 
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Bamboo Dude
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 164
From: Orange Countiki, CA
Posted: 2004-09-13 09:07 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-12 10:35, Tiki_Bong wrote:
Please, what are your thoughts?


Quote:

On 2004-09-12 17:59, Tiki_Bong wrote:
And rightly so, let's not talk about things that make us think objectively...



Hey Bong...here's a couple of thoughts for ya:

Timothy McVeigh had some issues with how the government handled the Waco incident, as did many of us; however, Timothy McVeigh was executed BECAUSE his reaction...blowing up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building and killing a bunch of kids...WAS inappropriate. Here's an interesting interview with Tim:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,109478,00.html
The guy seems like a normal dude...seems to think his actions were not so inappropriate.
So, MY question is: How do we deal with this type of individual/group? How does the federal government protect its' citizens from this type of treat...I mean, I'm not eager to go down to the federal building to get blown up...so I'd expect for there to be some sort of activity going on to ensure our safety from radical groups/individuals who have some sort of 'beef' with the government.

My second thought is that in my earlier post, all I was suggesting is that it is not unreasonable to allow a day to honor our brothers and sisters who died in NYC, in Virginia, and in Pennsylvania on Sept. 11, 2001. I think that discussions of our shortcommings can be put on hold for 24 hours while we pay our respects.

Finally, I think that objectivity is a MYTH. We are all inclined towards a certain perspective, so I tend to become a little suspicious whe the 'objectivity' card is played. No offense, my friend, I agree with many of the sentiments you've expressed, but I don't consider myself objective by any means. Your experiences allow you to see things I miss. I'd like you to consider my point of view, when it differs, as being valid too, not just too subjective.

Anyway, I hope some day that we can discuss this, and other issues, over drinks. You are thought provoking, and that is always appropriate!

Mahalo, my friend

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Don't be a mommy's moai!


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