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Tiki Central Forums Beyond Tiki 3rd anniversary of 9/11
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3rd anniversary of 9/11
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Posts: 1173
From: The Quiet EAST Village
Posted: 2004-09-13 11:04 am   Permalink


Osama is wrong. Osama -- or whoever replaces him -- will never "win." But this thing did not happen in a vaccum.

Soooo true. I'm sick and tired of hearing all this nonsense about we're being attacked by 'people who hate our freedom'. Freedom is desired by most or dare I say, all human beings. C'mon now! Yes Osama et al, are wrong but int heir minds they are fighting the good fight against a US presence in the Middle East.

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Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3293
From: Victoria, BC
Posted: 2004-09-13 11:54 am   Permalink

Bong, I appreciate your comments. Yours were maybe just as: "Inappropriate. Ineffectual. In poor taste. Weak analogy."
As everyone else's. Slight irony.

I look at TC as being a community without borders.

Hi! I live in a different country! I have lotsa love to give to all of you

I understand the need to remember horrible events that have taken place in the past, but all this country specific stuff makes me want a mai tai at 10 in the morning. Maybe that's not such a bad thing.

Don't get me wrong, you have my support. My Husband spent 8 months on a hot ship in the Gulf of Oman working with the US Navy and I know there's more to come.

It's kind of true, the old "many have been touched"(by 9/11) line. I just don't feel that this is the right place for it. Beyond a simple post reminding others to 'remember' that is.

Crap happens all over the world, everyone knows that. I guess it's all relative. We find this event to be beyond horrendous, when for decades other countries have had to deal with genocide, torture, murder, hangings, bombings, the list goes on. Can you imagine living in those conditions? I can't. It frightens me to think about it.

I guess, for me, this crosses the border(ha, get it?) when it comes to political talk.

So I'll be quiet now, and think to myself about how I hope all of this mess isn't resolved with a huge war. I mean bigger than it already is.

Anyone who has a problem with this post can just buy me a drink at the Hukilau and I'll forget allll about it. SO THERE!

Great Minds Drink Alike

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Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 02, 2002
Posts: 1105
From: SF bay area, CA
Posted: 2004-09-13 7:45 pm   Permalink

One of the things that really scares me about 9/11, and unfortunately human nature in general, is the readiness to hate. In Rwanda, I guarantee that most outsiders would have difficulty picking out a Hutu from a Tutsi, but Rwandans seem to have perfected this skill. An entire power structure was built on this distinction and the hatred between the groups resulted in a jawdropping genocide, the likes of which the UN had decades earlier promised itself would not be allowed to ever happen again. For those who seek a shortcut to power, one of the quickest routes is to teach young people to hate, and exploit this hatred by assuming a leadership role against a common enemy. I think the choice of an enemy is often almost arbitrary, although certainly it makes sense to exploit emotions like envy. But it is disturbingly easy, because people seem to have an amazing natural tendency, almost a desire, to find dividing lines, whether they be race, religion, height, economic status, culture, language, physical features, or whatever. There are so many examples of this not only in history but in the world we occupy right now. Despite the baffling tendency to look for explanations behind Osama's behavior, it should be obvious that nothing justifies the slaughter of innocents perpetrated by his organization. That is NOT fighting the good fight in any rational mind. Whatever realities underlie the emotions that he has succeeded in exploiting among his followers, the fact remains that he must be stopped, and I feel that the memory of 9/11 is an important reminder of this.

Watching the political discourse in the US, especially now leading up to an election, it's alarming to see the degree to which hatred seems to be encouraged here too. It seems like political groups are leading the political discussion beyond disagreeing with opponents, and into the realm of fostering visceral hatred. And unfortunately a rational review of positions, issues and facts is often easily subverted by this more direct route. The more people are taught to hate, rather than to think, the more it seems like a recipe for disaster.

I don't mean for this to be a political post, and this is not an invitation for right-leaning or left-leaning TCers to point out how their political opponents are guilty of fostering this kind of hatred. It would be much nicer to see people assert their own refusal to submit to hatred, no matter how bad they believe their opponents are. It's not about pointing fingers, it's about doing the right thing oneself.


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Tiki Socialite

Joined: Oct 08, 2003
Posts: 1266
From: Orlando
Posted: 2004-09-13 8:02 pm   Permalink


On 2004-09-13 19:45, aquarj wrote:
One of the things that really scares me about 9/11,...

Outstanding post from beginning to end. Thanks!

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Satan's Sin
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 729
From: Imperial Beach, CA
Posted: 2004-09-14 12:04 pm   Permalink

"All hate is self-hate."

-- sometimes attributed to Freud, other times to David O. McKay

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