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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Drinks and Food Copywrite question
Copywrite question
finkdaddy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 2061
From: Wisconsin
Posted: 2004-09-27 08:53 am   Permalink

Please help me settle a debate I'm having with a co-worker.

Is there any legal danger at all in using a recipe from a book in a place of business?

For instance, if I served a Missionary's Downfall in a bar using the same name and recipe from the Grog Log, would that be illegal in any way?


 
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Bamboo Dude
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 164
From: Orange Countiki, CA
Posted: 2004-09-27 09:15 am   Permalink

The danger would probably be in trying to include a recipe in a publication without the consent of the copywrite owner.

Recipes are not like secrets...I believe there is an implied use when they are published. Can you bottle the drink, and mass market it??? No. But making the drink, even using the name in a bar is what a lot of mixologists strive for...universal acceptance.

There is no harm in using the drink. In my opinion, the WORST that could happen is you'd get a cease and desist order. Then just refer to it with the prefix: "The drink formerly known as....."!

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[ This Message was edited by: Bamboo Dude on 2004-09-27 09:16 ]


 
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Satan's Sin
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 729
From: Imperial Beach, CA
Posted: 2004-09-27 09:18 am   Permalink

I say no.

And I also think that a recipe -- in order to be protected -- has to be patented. Like an invention. Like Kentucky Fried Chicken. Or Coca Cola.

I've heard of patented cocktails. Ages ago there were cocktails in a can -- martinis to manhattans -- and you opened the pop top and had at it.

They didn't take.

There is also the concept of "fair use." As in quoting something from a copyrighted work and not having to pay the copyright holder for this priveledge. Using a recipe from a cocktail book in your place of business may be considered fair use, I think.

As for out-and-out theft of recipes -- I think the best treatise I've read on that is in the Mixologists chapter in BOT.


 
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Bamboo Dude
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 05, 2004
Posts: 164
From: Orange Countiki, CA
Posted: 2004-09-27 09:25 am   Permalink

Just a fun fact to know and tell, SS...

Actually, the recipe for Coca Cola NEVER was patented. Patents expire after 20 years, and then they enter the public domain. So to keep from having the recipe made public, they elected NOT to file for the patent.

(pssst...pass it on!)


 
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Satan's Sin
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 729
From: Imperial Beach, CA
Posted: 2004-09-27 09:34 am   Permalink

Damn, but you are right! Went right to the fridge and checked it out! Who knew?

Fox goes crazy over Al Franken using "fair and balanced" and Coke doesn't even patent the most successful drink of all time! Wow.


 
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Tiki-Toa
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 1012
From: Somewhere on Planet Tiki
Posted: 2004-09-27 7:27 pm   Permalink

Please be careful about this kind of stuff, I only am offering adivce but this is why I removed ALL TC recipes from my book concept.

 
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PolynesianPop
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 2369
From: Corona, Ca
Posted: 2004-09-27 10:19 pm   Permalink

Here is a great website that I bookmarked a couple of years ago. It answers a lot of questions regarding copyright matters --

http://www.whatiscopyright.org/

I think in the case of copyrights, a little common sense goes a long way. For example, all you have to do is ask yourself, does the information, content, etc. belong to you? If not, then obviously, you cannot republish that information, content, etc without consent. Even then, you still need to be careful. As quoted in the link provided, "Permission to use someone else's material does not make you the rightful owner or holder."



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He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ This Message was edited by: PolynesianPop on 2004-09-27 22:19 ]


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finkdaddy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 11, 2004
Posts: 2061
From: Wisconsin
Posted: 2004-09-28 07:31 am   Permalink

I'm not talking about marketing a recipe as my own, I just mean using one that is already published.

I certainly don't think that if I mix 1 1\2 oz vodka with orange juice and call it a Screwdriver that I would be in any trouble. That same drink must be in a million books. So why would it be different for any other recipe that is published in a recipe book?

If I baked breaded chicken stuffed with ham and swiss cheese and called it Chicken Cordon Bleu it shouldn't cause any trouble right? I don't want to steal the KFC recipe, I just want to make chicken.

So if I use this Mai Tai recipe (found in the book 'Bartending for Dummies'),

1/2oz. rose's lime juice
1/2oz. orange curacao
1/4oz. orgeat syrup
1/4oz. rock candy syrup
3/4oz. light rum
1/4oz. 151 rum

and call it a Mai Tai, is that a problem? Maybe if I called it the Finkdaddy people might get upset.

(for the record, I don't like that recipe, it's just the first one I found in my desk)

At what point does one cross over into the territory of unethical or illegal?


 
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Tiki-Toa
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 1012
From: Somewhere on Planet Tiki
Posted: 2004-09-28 09:50 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-09-27 08:53, finkdaddy wrote:
Please help me settle a debate I'm having with a co-worker.

Is there any legal danger at all in using a recipe from a book in a place of business?

For instance, if I served a Missionary's Downfall in a bar using the same name and recipe from the Grog Log, would that be illegal in any way?



Going back to your original question....if you wanted to use a drink to name a bar such as you said then you would want to contact the author and have a discussion, maybe pay him a bit for the rights to use the name and the drink. I think it is a hard question to ask though that if you took Berry's Log and used it as the foundation for a establishments drink menu whether that would be illegal, I am curious myself and I agree in the thought that would that be any different then using the Bartender's Guide? But even then you said the discussion you were having with the co-worker was about serving drinks from a book, it might depend on what the book says, does it say anywhere in it that the recipes are limited in their use? Man so many ways to look at this, I think I need a drink.


 
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Chip and Andy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 2217
From: Corner table, Molokai Lounge, Mai-Kai.
Posted: 2006-12-11 8:33 pm   Permalink

Thought this was an interesting thread and deserved a bit more discussion. The Copyright Office official answer. To sum up... The recipe is not subject to any kind of copyright. The book you found the recipe in may be subject to Copyright, but not the actual recipe.

For example:

You could offer a Missionary's Downfall on your menu and not have any concerns.

You could not offer "Beach Bum Berry's Missionary's Downfall" or "The Intoxica Missionary's Downfall" or even substantially quote those books in your description of the drink. Well, you could if you got permission from the Copyright holder.

And, when in doubt just ask. Ask the author, or the publisher, or your lawyer. Ask the internet, it knows everything....
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cheekytiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 1091
From: The Haole Hut, London, UK
Posted: 2006-12-12 01:26 am   Permalink

Goslings own the copyright or have trademarked the "Dark & Stormy" which I think means you can't make the drink with any other Rum and call it that.
But i think as long as you use their Rum they are quite happy for you to use the name and recipe on a menu.
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Chip and Andy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 2217
From: Corner table, Molokai Lounge, Mai-Kai.
Posted: 2006-12-12 06:05 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-12-12 01:26, cheekytiki wrote:
Goslings ... have trademarked the "Dark & Stormy" ...



Trademarks are an entirely different beast. The recipe for the drink is fair game, but the name of the drink is not because it is under Trademark protection.

And you are right, I doubt you would get a cease-and-desist if you were using thier rum in thier drink.


 
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