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Tiki Central Forums Creating Tiki Tiki Carving Flounder - Someone's ripping you off
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Flounder - Someone's ripping you off
MaiTaiMafia
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 84
From: Kapolei, HI
Posted: 2004-12-21 12:04 am   Permalink

I am friends with Buddy Holly's widow. She owns outright the copyrights and licenses for most of his music as well as full licensing rights to his name and his likeness. Anyone wanting to sell something with his name on/in it or a photo, drawing, stick-figure of him has to get permission from her (and always at a price). Don't get ripped-off, people. Protect yourself first; if you don't you are just asking for trouble and you'll have a very hard time getting legal satisfaction from rip-off artists... yea - a letter from an attorney might get them to stop, but after they sell how much of YOUR designs?
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Mike the Headhunter
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 24, 2004
Posts: 190
From: Wastelands of western NC
Posted: 2004-12-21 01:31 am   Permalink

Thanks kipepeo, your response was the one that made the most sense and put it all in perspective. So unless you get total control via contract when you purchase it you own nothing, that's pretty right on for the artists. Since I am working on some mug designs now this and a couple of other copyright threads here have been very helpful.

 
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PolynesianPop
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 2368
From: Corona, Ca
Posted: 2004-12-21 08:26 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-12-20 23:55, MaiTaiMafia wrote:
First - you must include a Copyright stamp (the "C" in a cirlcle)and the date on all of your work, no matter what it is. If there is no symbol, it's pretty much open turf and anyone can reproduce it. Worse yet, they can beat you to the punch and copyright YOUR design before you do!




I'm sorry but this information is incorrect. Copyright begins when the piece is created. As quoted
here, "Copyright is established when an original work is created, composed or written and fixed to a tangible medium such as paper, canvas, recording, a hard drive, on film, etc. The copyright is owned by the creator.

Registering your original work with the Office of Copyright is not required for intellectual property to be protected by copyright.

While registering for copyright is not required, the legal registration with the Office of Copyright will benefit the copyright owner should an issue of infringement occur. Registering copyright is beneficial because you cannot sue for copyright infringement without registration."


http://www.rightsforartists.com/copyright.html



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Poly-Pop *



He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ This Message was edited by: PolynesianPop on 2004-12-21 08:26 ]


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MaiTaiMafia
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 84
From: Kapolei, HI
Posted: 2004-12-22 5:57 pm   Permalink

PP-

Having been involved in a few litiginous circumstances in my life, the one thing I learned was that in court, the person with the most paperwork wins. If you clearly establish the "when" of your creation, you are a lot better off than if you did not. Hence, the copyright symbol and date... Without it, you can "say" you created the piece on such and such date, and that the creative property is yours, but then so can another person. Until you clearly establish you rights to something, it's just your word against theirs. It sucks, but that's the way it is...
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PolynesianPop
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 2368
From: Corona, Ca
Posted: 2004-12-22 9:49 pm   Permalink

MTM,
I understand what you are saying. I agree with you when you say:

Quote:

On 2004-12-22 17:57, MaiTaiMafia wrote:
If you clearly establish the "when" of your creation, you are a lot better off than if you did not.



When I said your information was incorrect, I was referring to when you said:

Quote:

On 2004-12-20 23:55, MaiTaiMafia wrote:
If there is no symbol, it's pretty much open turf and anyone can reproduce it.



This is not true. Again, just because it doesn't have the copyright symbol on it doesn't mean its not protected by copyright laws.

I would bet that some artists here on TC (or elsewhere) do not put a copyright symbol when they create and sign an original painting or carve a wall tiki -- but that still doesn't mean its ok for anyone to reproduce it.


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Poly-Pop *



He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ This Message was edited by: polynesianpop on 2004-12-23 08:18 ]


 
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ToonToonz
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 15, 2004
Posts: 139
Posted: 2004-12-23 03:35 am   Permalink

And adding a copyright symbol can sure make a work of art look ugly. Besides, a shifty lawyer could say you manipulated the date on the print or art (made it earlier)to help your case.

The best way to copyright and get your added rights as the artist is to formally register your copyrighted works with the U.S. government. It is fairly simple and cheap to do. Just photograph or scan all your work onto a CD and, following their procedure, register your copyrights with the copyright office. Costs $30 for as many as you want to register at one time.
That way your copyright is officially dated and registered.


 
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Kim
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 135
From: Portland, OR
Posted: 2004-12-23 5:23 pm   Permalink

Poly Pop & ToonToonz are correct-- you don't need the copyright symbol for copyright to exist, it's automatic. It's still a good idea to register copyright, though. In the event that you need to take legal action against someone, your copyright must be registered before you learn of the copyright violation in order to recover legal fees or statutory damages.

Here is an old topic with some information.


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FLOUNDERart
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 1140
From: Orlando Florida
Posted: 2004-12-23 7:12 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-12-23 03:35, ToonToonz wrote:
And adding a copyright symbol can sure make a work of art look ugly. Besides, a shifty lawyer could say you manipulated the date on the print or art (made it earlier)to help your case.

The best way to copyright and get your added rights as the artist is to formally register your copyrighted works with the U.S. government. It is fairly simple and cheap to do. Just photograph or scan all your work onto a CD and, following their procedure, register your copyrights with the copyright office. Costs $30 for as many as you want to register at one time.
That way your copyright is officially dated and registered.



Here's a cheaper way, and trickier way to copyright something. You can't beat a USPS postmark! Take a pic of your piece, put it in an envelope and send it to yourself. Dont open the envelope when you get it, just file it. The postmark assures the authenticity of the copyright. No judge would ever go against the goverment. If none of this makes since it's because I'm drunk on rum.
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Original Art by
Scott "Flounder" Scheidly

www.flounderart.com

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ToonToonz
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 15, 2004
Posts: 139
Posted: 2004-12-24 07:06 am   Permalink

The purpose of registering a copyright also gives the author/artist additional protection. When one registers it and then one has to sue some one for unauthorized use of the art and one wins can also receive payment of your legal fees.
Without registration one cannot claim for legal fees.

Plus there are additional problems with the art in the postmarked envelope; such as:
Once the envelope is opened it is no longer any good. So if you have to sue more than one person for illegally copying ones work, how do you prove in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th lawsuits that the date is correct?

And you can only put one work of art per envelope - whew! Ive got hundreds and hundreds of pieces of copyrighted art - I would need one heck of a filing and storage system for all that.

The copyright system is cheap and effective and takes about as much time as the sealed envelope and postmark trick. (And have you tried to read the postmark on an envelope lately? - I can hardly ever read the date on it.)


 
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RevBambooBen
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 7445
From: Huntikington Beach
Posted: 2004-12-24 08:42 am   Permalink

You can win a million judgements but collecting is another story.

 
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fishhead
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Sep 01, 2003
Posts: 42
From: Huntington Beach,CA
Posted: 2004-12-24 10:33 am   Permalink

Ben duhhh?you only sue the people with money....hey it worked for me.

 
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MaiTaiMafia
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 84
From: Kapolei, HI
Posted: 2004-12-25 7:40 pm   Permalink

PolyPop... you're right... and I didn't explain myself well enough. But you've all got the basic idea: copyright your stuff or you are leaving yourself wide open. And like the Reverend says, winning is one thing - collecting is a whole other matter. But at least with the copyright, you're covered. Now all you have to do is figure out which lawsuits would be worth your time. At least if you send a letter telling someone they are violating your copyrights, you have a good chance of getting them to stop (or a "better" chance anyway)... Protect yourselves, that's all I'm saying...
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Kim
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 135
From: Portland, OR
Posted: 2004-12-27 4:16 pm   Permalink

Since the "mail it to yourself" thing is so frequently sited as a way to "prove copyright", I want to repeat this:

Quote:

On 2004-12-24 07:06, ToonToonz wrote:
Without registration one cannot claim for legal fees.



In order to recover legal fees your copyright must be legally registered with the Copyright Office before you learn of the alleged copyright violation. Postmarks do not cut it.

If your copyright is not registered before you learn of a violation, you cannot seek to recover legal fees. Unless you have the $$ to pay your own lawyer, this means you can't really do anything beyond asking the violator to stop.


 
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Rattiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 03, 2003
Posts: 422
From: Key West, FL
Posted: 2005-01-12 04:51 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-12-16 12:21, kipepeo wrote:
Because we, as the artist, own the idea. Thats our client's piece of paper/canvas/etc..., but the image, the idea, belongs to us and us alone. I am an artist as well. I paint watercolors of Moais. I produce them, and own the vision. The concept. The idea. The client I sell it to, they just get a copy of that, so they can hang it up on a wall and enjoy it. But its not now THEIR idea, vision, and concept. Its mine. Does that make sense? I hope I explained that well, and got my point across ok.



That is a fine answer, BUT one question. If you "paint watercolors of Moais" aren't they in turn the lost Polynesian people of Rapa Nui's intellectual property? How about a painting or drawing of a house? Isn't that the architect's? Not that I am disagreeing with you but there is question there.


 
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freddiefreelance
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 2990
From: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: 2005-01-12 09:29 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2005-01-12 04:51, Rattiki wrote:
Quote:

On 2004-12-16 12:21, kipepeo wrote:
Because we, as the artist, own the idea. Thats our client's piece of paper/canvas/etc..., but the image, the idea, belongs to us and us alone. I am an artist as well. I paint watercolors of Moais. I produce them, and own the vision. The concept. The idea. The client I sell it to, they just get a copy of that, so they can hang it up on a wall and enjoy it. But its not now THEIR idea, vision, and concept. Its mine. Does that make sense? I hope I explained that well, and got my point across ok.



That is a fine answer, BUT one question. If you "paint watercolors of Moais" aren't they in turn the lost Polynesian people of Rapa Nui's intellectual property? How about a painting or drawing of a house? Isn't that the architect's? Not that I am disagreeing with you but there is question there.


I think it comes down to the fact you can't copyright an idea. The "idea" of Moais isn't protected, but the actual physical Moais are. You couldn't copyright the idea of painting a watercolor of a Moai, but you can copyright your watercolors & protect them from being copied. I believe you can also sue under copyright protection if someone copys your style too closely without saying that the physical object is a copy, a pastiche, "in the style of," or in some way lets people think that the copy is an original by you.
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