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Tiki Central Forums Bilge Censoring Hollywood
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Censoring Hollywood
hanford_lemoore
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Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 1869
From: Tiki Central
Posted: 2005-04-28 8:50 pm   Permalink

If you can't discuss a topic without mentioning politics or religion, I would appreciate you simply not discussing that topic on TC, as opposed to bringing it up anyway, or continuing it once someone else brought it up. Because doing so often gets otherwise-valid topics locked.

This is not a religion & politics debate board. Period. If you need to discuss this so badly, go find one.





 
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DawnTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 1675
From: next stop Hulaville!
Posted: 2005-04-28 9:27 pm   Permalink

Here's a thought, if you don't want to see it, don't watch it, read it or participate.
We live in a time where we can have most anything we want, when we want it, however we want it. Isn't it really all about money anyway? No one cares about the writers or directors artistic, creative vision. I mean chances are its gonna be crap anyway so what do I care what kind of crap you prefer, the cleaned up version or dirty virsion, it makes no difference to me...crap is crap. All "they" care about it whats it gonna take for you to give "them" (whoever that is) your 20 bucks? How do you want it? Good and clean or good and dirty.
I've got an idea, how about just good!

[ This Message was edited by: DawnTiki on 2005-04-28 21:30 ]


 
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ikitnrev
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 1305
From: D.C. / Virginia
Posted: 2005-04-28 10:03 pm   Permalink

Societies have a tendency to produce certain unified views of looking at the world - a group mindthink that is common to most people. There is nothing wrong with this - it can represent our informal national identity, and perhaps even our culture.

A danger exists when this worldview is presented as the only acceptable and proper way of looking at things, and anything that strays from this view is listed as deviant or perverse and something to immediately be squashed.

Cultures do need artists who are willing to take a critical look at this mainstream groupview, and raise questions about the norms that exist, and be able to shout out 'The Emperor Has No Clothes' or "try looking at things this way!' The crowds may recognize the truth of the shouted warning or statement, or they might choose to simply ignore it, as they often do.

If a culture is to grow and be vibrant, its attitudes and opinions must be open to change. In what direction does a culture move? - it moves towards a view or expression that was formally not in the mainstream. Often the seeds of these views were first presented by an artist, or perhaps some other visionary not even associated with the art world. As cultures evolve, what may have been formerly taboo might now become common - an example being the level of nudity that Playboy Magazine helped introduce.

I do recognize that many people may not want to be constantly exposed to these differing views. The older generation may want to live nostalgically in the world of their youth, where movies did not show such graphic images. And those with children may worry about their ability to choose when and where their children will be allowed to view such images. There are other legitimate reasons for why certain groups of people might prefer to live in the mainstream world.

What is the proper amount of violence and nudity in our movies, our music, on the sidewalks in front of our streets? It will vary depending on whatever subculture - mainstream or subversive - that you are associated with. Your identity with subcultures may change according to whatever situation you relate to - whether it be geographical, professional, family, religous, political, recreational, age group, or whatever else you determine to be imporatnt at that moment. Some may identify with only one key identity, while others might like to swap them as often as they change their shirts.

There is a difference between recognizing the validity of a different subculture, while still allowing it to exist somewhere else where others can still discover it when the time is right, versus feeling the need to permanently squash that subculture for fear of it contaminating your own view of the world.

Is the editing out of sex and violence in DVDs a danger? If it is seen as an effort to help create and define your own subculture, then it can be a good thing. But if it is seen as the first steps to squash something that they feel should not exist in the world at all, then there is much potential for it to become a dangerous thing.

Having Wal-Mart sell only censored versions of music CDs may not be a problem when you live in a city and have the option of visiting other nearby stores. But if you live in a rural area, where there might be only one store (a Wal-Mart ) that sells music CDs - then you are in a sense being forced to live in a restricted world.

This is a fascinating topic, and I am enjoying reading the views of the others here.

Vern


 
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DawnTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 1675
From: next stop Hulaville!
Posted: 2005-04-28 10:26 pm   Permalink

ikitnrev wrote:
Quote:
But if you live in a rural area, where there might be only one store (a Wal-Mart ) that sells music CDs - then you are in a sense being forced to live in a restricted world.



Rural? With the internet rural doesn't really exist the same way it used to. If someone wants something bad enough, like music, a book or movie, you can get it within 24 hours just by typing in your credit card number. Heck! You can even buy a wife over the internet!


 
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Unkle John
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Joined: Oct 22, 2003
Posts: 1217
From: Middle-of-the-Ocean, TX
Posted: 2005-04-28 10:42 pm   Permalink

It's funny (not hah hah, but you know what i mean), that you don't really notice censorship in many movies.
Ok lets take E.T. Speilberg changed the fact that the feds had guns in their hands (the famous group flying scene) and had walkie-talkies digitaly placed in their hands. I didn't agree with the move because in all actuallity, it didn't bother me that they had guns in their hands. Speilberg did, so he changed it. It's his movie he can do what he wants. But atleast I get the choice if i want to watch it "enhanced" or not.
Another movie I know had more scenes, that where edited for my wittle head was "The Lawnmower Man". The scenes that whee cut where most of the "Cybo-Man" scenes. One in particular was when the monkey was shot. I know it probably upset some people, but the realism about it is.. it wasn't a real monkey and something like that could never happen.

..Just a few thoughts on my experience.
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bananabobs
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 824
Posted: 2005-04-28 11:36 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2005-04-27 05:56, Feelin' Zombified wrote:
Is anyone else sickened by the movement to create censored versions of DVDs?

just askin'...

-Z


Back to the question, no. Thats all I can say.


 
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vintagegirl
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Joined: Jun 12, 2002
Posts: 542
From: Los Angeles
Posted: 2005-04-29 12:53 am   Permalink

I am very disturbed by such censorship. In past generations it seemed more fueled by morality, but today (with the whole Wal-Mart issue) it seems to be fueled more by money and greed. Entertainment companies are so greedy that they will gladly butcher a film or CD in order to sell more to a giant chain. And while the internet has opened up a lot of options for people in rural areas, the physical stores are their immediate environment and may still influence what the locals buy. In that sense, it's almost like capitalism (on that large of a level) is becoming the new communism. Forcing the masses to comply with one mainstream way of thinking (or shopping) by making the almighty dollar more important than anything else. Only offer people what will make the companies the most money regardless of whether there's any quality to it whether it's film and CDs or clothing, food and housing. Sorry, I will not comply.

In fact, I was once censored for an art piece I collaborated on at a gallery. The title of the (rather innocent) piece was changed by the gallery because a so-called fellow artist who was also in the show perceived it as offensive and complained. Actually, the piece was a simple exercise in visual randomness. The fact that the "fellow artist" read something more into it spoke volumes about how she viewed the world.


 
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Feelin' Zombified
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Joined: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 1329
From: The Exotic Shores of Lake St. Clair
Posted: 2005-04-29 06:04 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2005-04-28 23:36, bananabobs wrote:
Quote:

On 2005-04-27 05:56, Feelin' Zombified wrote:
Is anyone else sickened by the movement to create censored versions of DVDs?

just askin'...

-Z


Back to the question, no. Thats all I can say.




So violation of Copyright Law doesn't bother you? Piracy doesn't offend you?

-Z


 
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Feelin' Zombified
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Joined: Jul 15, 2003
Posts: 1329
From: The Exotic Shores of Lake St. Clair
Posted: 2005-04-29 06:12 am   Permalink

"Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!"



 
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ikitnrev
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 1305
From: D.C. / Virginia
Posted: 2005-04-29 08:58 am   Permalink

The internet does allow a person in a rural area to seek out items they truly desire, that might not be available in their home area. But there is a type of impulse buy that happens when one is just wandering through your local store, and discover a new title or CD cover and decide to purchase it on the spot. In those cases, your choices are limited to what is on display at the store, and often the consumer is unaware that the version that is being purchased may be the edited version.

One of my peeves is when you see the statement 'This film has been edited from its original content' and then they never tell you what scenes were removed. I think they should add a statement that say something like '3 minutes and 17 seconds of excess violence and 5 minutes of nudity have been removed in this version of the film.' That would alert the consumer that what they are watching is not the original, but an altered version of the film, and they can then choose to search for the unaltered version if they wish.

Vern





 
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ikitnrev
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jul 27, 2002
Posts: 1305
From: D.C. / Virginia
Posted: 2005-04-29 09:04 am   Permalink

Quote:

Heck! You can even buy a wife over the internet!

"Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!"



Who knows, maybe some day we will be able to buy children over the internet. We would then probably have to check to assure that they were not altered in any way.

Vern


 
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Geeky Tiki
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Joined: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: 533
From: Las vegas
Posted: 2005-04-29 09:41 am   Permalink

Fun topic!

Hey, remember, even the film that is originally released is edited for commercial purposes.

Studios may demand a certain rating or the avoidance of a certain rating, so every artist faces supervision by non-artists with fiscal oversight.

Myself, I'm more sick of seeing "Director's Cut" or "Unrated Version" plastered on DVD's as a selling point. Shouldn't every cut be the "Director's Cut?" That message says that the director didn't get to make the film he or she wanted in the first place.

Pisses me off - now they use the fact that the director apparently thinks the DVD is the true version of his film and wants to let us all know that we wasted our time in the theater. Either that, or, like the bowdlerized versions, it is a ploy to grub more sheckels from the citizenry.

These "clean" store edits are not based on what the store believes, either. They are based on the store being able to make more money than if they didn't offer that edited cut - to me, that's exactly what the studio did in the first place.

Calling the cut of a film that hits the theaters "definitive" and considering any further editing to be sacrilege ignores all the other things that are part of the commercial film indutry.

Think about how many director's kvetch about the studio not releasing their films a certain way because the studio needed to avoid an NC-17 rating.

Or, consider: Isn't it an amazing coincidence that 99% of all film are between 90 and 120 minutes long? Wouldn't you think there'd be more variation in length? Isn't telling a director that a 90 minute or 2 hour film is required to keep customer flow going a serious case of artistic coersion just to keep ticket sales at a certain level?

Think back to the last "Director's Cut" version of a flick you saw with "20 more exciting minutes" or extra boob shots that never made the theater. Which version is the "true version" of the film?

Which version of "What's Up, Tiger Lilly?" or "Blade Runner" is the true version?

________________________________

Same goes for music. Is it the album cut or the singles version of a cut that is "true."

Artists release "radio cuts" and "extended dance mixes" all the time to satisfy purely commercial demands. I sure hope they don't start relesasing "Artist's Cuts" of songs.

If the artist releases several takes, or a DJ remixes it, isn't that a crime as well?

Bottom line: Follow the money. If something that is done can be explained in terms of trying maximize profit, odds are that is the real reason behind why it was done.



 
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WillTiki
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 56
Posted: 2005-04-29 10:56 am   Permalink

Of course it is all about the money. It all boils down to who owns or has control of the ("intellectual property") rights. A movie, album, song, book article etc. cannot legally, re-edited or otherwise, be offered for sale or for free, by anyone other than those with the legal (copy)right to do so. Those edited WalMart versions are made with the signed consent of the artists whether they now like it or not. Many musicians are becoming dissatisfied with music publishing companies policies and profits and are using cheap, available technology to publish their own CD's etc. If you do not support a companies practices, then do not support the companies.

 
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DawnTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 1675
From: next stop Hulaville!
Posted: 2005-04-29 7:20 pm   Permalink

ikitnrev wrote:
Quote:
Who knows, maybe some day we will be able to buy children over the internet. We would then probably have to check to assure that they were not altered in any way.


Wal-Mart babies on aisle 9...


 
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Tiki_Bong
Deleted

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 0
Posted: 2005-04-29 8:54 pm   Permalink

Remember: quality sells itself, no reassembly required; Hitchcock, Hemmingway, Happy Kine...
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