FEATURES | MUSIC | BOOKS | DRINKS | FORUMS | GAMES | LINKS | ABOUT


advertise on Tiki Central

Celebrating classic and modern Polynesian Pop
  [Edit Profile]  [Edit Preferences]  [Search] [Sign Up]
[Personal Messages]  [Member List]  [Help/FAQ]  [Rules]  [Login]
Tiki Central Forums Tiki Music Any thoughts on differing CD REISSUES: Mono/Stereo Martin Denny, Esquivel
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
Any thoughts on differing CD REISSUES: Mono/Stereo Martin Denny, Esquivel
professahhummingflowah
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 296
From: honolulu, hawaii & boston, ma
Posted: 2005-10-31 11:58 pm   Permalink

Yeah Gwen, I think you're right on that one. From what I know of the story (I could be wrong), what happened was that when Denny decided to re-record the album in stereo, Mr. Lyman had already left the group to form his own band. Mr. Denny's decision to use Julian Wechter, and the fame of the original recording, led Denny to meticulously re-create the mono recording for the stereo recording as closely as possible -- including the exact alignment of the group's improvised birdcalls.

However one detail that cannot be found on both recordings is the sound of a vehicle driving past the Dome that they were recording in. I can't remember, off-hand, on which version (mono or stereo) the vehicle is on.

If any of you have stayed on O'ahu, prior to about 1997 or so, you might recall the big aluminum dome that was out towards the front of the Hilton Hawaiian Village property. Many shows were presented in the Dome (I even played in there once), and that is where some of the earlier albums were recorded.

Then they tore down the dome, and there was a mini-golf course near where it used to be (which is now gone).

Hope this helps.
_________________
WAITIKI INTERNATIONAL LLC: Advancing Exotica & Tiki for Modern Times
www.WAITIKI.com and also visit The WAITIKI 7

 View Profile of professahhummingflowah Send a personal message to professahhummingflowah  Email professahhummingflowah Goto the website of professahhummingflowah     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
tikibars
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 2024
From: Aku Hall, Chicago
Posted: 2008-01-17 10:17 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2005-06-23 18:58, rupe33 wrote:
...I suspect that everything after that probably had both mono & stereo *mixes* as opposed to actual re-recordings. It looks like a year or three passed between the different recordings of "Exotica"--the notes on the album indicate the Mono version was recorded in December 1956, and Liberty "brought Denny back to the studio to re-record Exotica in stereo, from scratch --apparently a cheaper, technically simpler and more effective process than attempting a cursory remix." (from the Rev-Ola notes by Joe Foster.)



I think Joe Foster might have neglected one thing when writing his notes, which is that records weren't actually mixed in the 1950s.

That process didn't begin until the 1960s with the advent and widespread propagation of 3 and/or 4-track machines (and then 8-, 16-, 24- etc. tracks as time went on).

Before the advent of multitrack (thank Les Paul, among others, for helping to come up with the idea), records were played live in the studio directly to disc or tape. No remixing or overdubbing. A 'balance engineer' (obsolete job title) did a primitive version of what we now call mixing on the fly during the artist's performance.

Anyway, a 'cursory remix' - never mind whether or not it was possible at the time - would always be cheaper than a re-recording, hands down.





 
View Profile of tikibars Send a personal message to tikibars  Email tikibars Goto the website of tikibars     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Quiet Village Idiot
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 13, 2007
Posts: 149
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Posted: 2008-01-18 04:53 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2005-09-30 06:56, rupe33 wrote:


Back to PRIMITIVA - some of the tracks on the Rev-Ola reissue frankly sound as if they've been taken directly from vinyl, as there are some pops recorded into the CD. I've sent an email to the company asking if this is indeed the case, as it's not mentioned on the packaging at all. Will post anything I find out.



Did you ever hear anything back about this?


 
View Profile of Quiet Village Idiot Send a personal message to Quiet Village Idiot      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
OnyaBirri
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 419
Posted: 2008-01-18 05:40 am   Permalink

Quote:

Before the advent of multitrack (thank Les Paul, among others, for helping to come up with the idea), records were played live in the studio directly to disc or tape. No remixing or overdubbing. A 'balance engineer' (obsolete job title) did a primitive version of what we now call mixing on the fly during the artist's performance.




In the early days of two-track stereo, it was not uncommon to have two engineers and tape set-ups at a session - one mixing the mono recording and one mixing the stereo recording. The two could sound radically different.


 
View Profile of OnyaBirri Send a personal message to OnyaBirri      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
rupe33
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 08, 2004
Posts: 319
From: DC Metro Area (MD)
Posted: 2008-01-18 06:59 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-01-18 04:53, Quiet Village Idiot wrote:
Quote:

On 2005-09-30 06:56, rupe33 wrote:
Back to PRIMITIVA - some of the tracks on the Rev-Ola reissue frankly sound as if they've been taken directly from vinyl, as there are some pops recorded into the CD. I've sent an email to the company asking if this is indeed the case, as it's not mentioned on the packaging at all. Will post anything I find out.


Did you ever hear anything back about this?



Alas, nope. Did write to Rev-Ola that same day, never received a response. Am still grateful for the convenience of having these on CD... but if they're taken from vinyl pressings with all the inherent noise, I feel that should rightfully be noted somewhere on the packaging.

Cheers,
Rupe
_________________
"I had never enjoyed a drink so much, or needed it so badly."
--Thor Heyerdahl, in 'Aku-Aku: The Secret of Easter Island'


 
View Profile of rupe33 Send a personal message to rupe33  Goto the website of rupe33     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
OnyaBirri
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 419
Posted: 2008-01-18 08:15 am   Permalink

I didn't hear any surface noise on the stereo versions. Maybe only the mono tracks?

 
View Profile of OnyaBirri Send a personal message to OnyaBirri      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
tikibars
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 2024
From: Aku Hall, Chicago
Posted: 2008-01-18 8:22 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-01-18 05:40, OnyaBirri wrote:
Quote:

Before the advent of multitrack (thank Les Paul, among others, for helping to come up with the idea), records were played live in the studio directly to disc or tape. No remixing or overdubbing. A 'balance engineer' (obsolete job title) did a primitive version of what we now call mixing on the fly during the artist's performance.




In the early days of two-track stereo, it was not uncommon to have two engineers and tape set-ups at a session - one mixing the mono recording and one mixing the stereo recording. The two could sound radically different.



Perhaps, but this doesn't change my point in any way - there was no remix going on after the fact, at a later date, to get the different versions.


 
View Profile of tikibars Send a personal message to tikibars  Email tikibars Goto the website of tikibars     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
OnyaBirri
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 02, 2006
Posts: 419
Posted: 2008-01-18 11:24 pm   Permalink

Quote:


Perhaps, but this doesn't change my point in any way - there was no remix going on after the fact, at a later date, to get the different versions.



I wasn't saying that remixing was going on, I was simply expanding on your post.

That said, occasionally a two-track stereo was mixed to mono if there was not a separate mono recording. Also - regardless of whether a session was taped in stereo or not - additional elements were sometimes added later and mixed on the fly to another mono master.


 
View Profile of OnyaBirri Send a personal message to OnyaBirri      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Tiki Bill
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 112
From: Holiday Florida
Posted: 2008-01-19 07:54 am   Permalink

Just so you know, even back in the "mono" days, a few record companys who were on the ball actually made stereo recordings before stereo was available to the general public. When stereo became accepted as a home format, all the record companys who still cut records in mono had to create "psudo-stereo" mixes from the mono recordings (usually by splitting the mono track and adding a slight delay or chorus effect on one of the splits) So some of those older stereo records weren't really stereo at all. Atlantic records was one of the first to make stereo recordings before it was popular and had the first "true" stereo records available when the first stereo turntables came out. Atlantic would actually mix the two channels together to make a mono record from a stereo recording so it could be played on mono systems. Atlantic was also recording to tape in the early 50's as they had one of the first Ampex 1/4" decks made and recorded in stereo long before Les Paul made his 1" 8 track. Almost everyone else was still cutting right to disc. The tape format is older than you think, there just weren't many record companys willing to take the plunge at the time. There was "post recording mixing" going on in the 50's, just not the way we think of it today. Just a little recording history 101 from an old fart engineer.

Tiki Bill.

[ This Message was edited by: Tiki Bill 2008-01-19 08:00 ]


 
View Profile of Tiki Bill Send a personal message to Tiki Bill  Email Tiki Bill Goto the website of Tiki Bill     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
tikibars
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 2024
From: Aku Hall, Chicago
Posted: 2008-01-19 5:32 pm   Permalink

Right, if I am not mistaken, tape was first commercially available in 1948, a product of WWII technology.
(More history from *another* old fart engineer!)


 
View Profile of tikibars Send a personal message to tikibars  Email tikibars Goto the website of tikibars     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
cannibalgod70
Member

Joined: Jul 11, 2014
Posts: 1
Posted: 2014-07-11 12:17 pm   Permalink

The Japanese company Vivid Sound seems to have released these cardboard sleeve mini-LP cds concurrently with Rev-Ola (in 2007). What would interest me is: any differences, particularly regarding sound quality. I don't trust UK labels like Real Gone, Cherry Red/El or Rev-Ola to do thoughtful remastering. Usually they just bootleg someone else's mp3s that they've found on the web. I'd like to think that a Japanese label would offer superior audio fidelity, as is often the case with their reissues. So, I'm just wondering if anyone has compared Rev-Ola vs. Vivid Sound editions? Don't want to pay 3X as much just for an obi.

And, yes, a nice clean copy of the original vinyl can't be beat.


 
View Profile of cannibalgod70 Send a personal message to cannibalgod70      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
U-Moderate:
  
v1.5

[ About Tiki Central | Contact Tiki Central | Advertise on Tiki Central ]
(c) 2000-2014 Tikiroom.com (tm), Tiki Central (tm)

Credits & copyright infomation