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Rock Songs about Rock, vs Movies about Movies |
Gigantalope
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: 913
From: Shinola, California
|  Posted: 2005-11-06 09:01 am Permalink
Why does it seem that Rock Songs which are about "Rock N Roll" are so detestably banal, but films about the making of films can be witty and charming?
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stuff-o-rama
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Nov 20, 2003
Posts: 751
From: Central Coast of California
| Posted: 2005-11-07 02:37 am Permalink
Are we talking "Turn the Page" vs "Wag the Dog?"
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Gigantalope
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Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: 913
From: Shinola, California
| Posted: 2005-11-07 06:40 am Permalink
Spot on.
"We Built this City" vs Adaptation
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Suffering Bastard of Stumptown
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Joined: May 09, 2005
Posts: 648
From: PDX
| Posted: 2005-11-07 06:54 am Permalink
It has a lot to do with both the nature of the artform and the amount of time to get a point across. When you have a 3.5 minute timeframe to get something across about an artform based on rebellion and loud noises (and people expect a good amount of repetition in that 3.5 minutes) you will certainly get a different outcome than 90 minutes about an artform that takes many different shapes.
That said, Rock and Roll Ain't Noise Pollution, Rock and Roll Ain't Gonna Die.
--SBiM
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freddiefreelance
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Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 2983
From: San Diego, Ca.
| Posted: 2005-11-07 12:35 pm Permalink
"Rock & Roll High School" vs. State & Main? I don't think so...
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MaiTaiMafia
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Joined: Dec 03, 2004
Posts: 84
From: Kapolei, HI
| Posted: 2005-11-07 1:03 pm Permalink
Spinal Tap vs. .....?
(I'll take Spinal Tap every time!)
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donhonyc
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Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Posts: 1173
From: The Quiet EAST Village
| Posted: 2005-11-07 1:15 pm Permalink
Oh contraire mon frair (is that the correct spelling?)-
"Long Live Rock" by The Who? "Detestably banal"? I think not.
By the same token I wouldn't use the description of "witty and charming" when refering to Blake Edwards' "S.O.B. " or Altman's "The Player".
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Gigantalope
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: 913
From: Shinola, California
| Posted: 2005-11-07 9:05 pm Permalink
I could see the "limitation in time" issue if both were preformed by the same artist, but that's not the case as both artists are specialists in their medium.
(We could also maybe draw into the circle paintings about paintings and interject Valasquez' "Maids of Honor" as an example of it...MC Escher's Drawings about drawing, Wren's Cathedral about Cathedrals...On the more banal side however might be Animation about Animation (Daffy being chased by an eraser)
Anymore?
Maybe it's because Rock is more "Anthem" like and thus often more redundant (refrains)
It all takes a funnier twist when including parody (Intentional or accidental)
Is "Old Time Rock and Roll" now tinged with humor as it's itself has become old time rock?
[ This Message was edited by: Gigantalope 2005-11-08 06:42 ]
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Geeky Tiki
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Joined: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: 533
From: Las vegas
| Posted: 2005-11-08 10:36 am Permalink
Rock songs about Rock that don't suck...
Well, I liked Rock and Roll from Led Zep IV when I was younger. It's still OK.
I liked Joan Jett's I Love Rock and Roll just 'cause she was so grungy before we had grunge.
The Who have already been mentioned.
The Stones It's Only Rock n' Roll was kind of decadent and didn't suck.
Alice Cooper's Be My Lover was a great song. I still like it.
Pink Floyd's Welcome to the Machine and Comfortably Numb seem to be OK.
The whole Ziggy Stardust album seemed to be rock-referring.
Deep Purple's Smoke on the Water and Grand Funk's We're an American Band were rock about rock and hold up well after all these years.
Dire Straights Money for Nothin'?
Guns and Roses Welcome to the Jungle? Not sure if that counts.
Not really a Don McLean or Elton fan but Bennie and the Jets and American Pie were well regarded.
OK, I'll go think of crappy movies about the movies now...
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donhonyc
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Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Posts: 1173
From: The Quiet EAST Village
| Posted: 2005-11-08 11:06 am Permalink
Just for the record-twos songs already mentioned here.
'American Pie' and Seger's 'Turn the Page'. Two of the most pompous songs ever recorded. With lines like-
"you smoke the days last cigarette remembering what you said".
Wow, Bob...you're so...deep, man..
PLEASE!!!!!
I'll take "EMI" by The Sex Pistols over that garbage ANY day.
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Geeky Tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: 533
From: Las vegas
| Posted: 2005-11-08 11:58 am Permalink
Do you mean the same group that was the British version of the Monkees updated by Malcolm McLaren to cash in on punk rock?
The ones who sang the following un-pompus lyrics?
"...Too many people had the suss
Too many people support us
Un unlimited amount...
...And sir and friends are crucified
A day they wished that we had died
We are an addition
We are ruled by none
Never ever never...
...And you thought that we were faking
That we were all just money making...
...Don't judge a book just by the cover
Unless you cover just another..."
I guess if Mickey, Peter, Davey, and Mike can be allowed to have produced "Head", then it's OK for the pre-fab four of the punk era to produce that "Ballad of John and Yoko" about A&M.
No endorsement of Don McLean or Bob Seeger implied or inferred. Just a little bit of deviation from the altar of the Pistols. I do like Anarchy in the U.K. though!
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King Bushwich the 33rd
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Joined: Jan 10, 2005
Posts: 933
From: Ling Cod Beach, CA 90803
| Posted: 2005-11-09 10:11 am Permalink
Good Rock and Roll songs about Rock and Roll should include Chuck Berrys' "Rock and Roll Music", "Johnny B. Goode"' and "Roll Over Beethoven"
Funny thing with movies about movies is that some of the best movies about movies are movies about bad movies such as Tim Burton's "Ed Wood" (1994), Joe Dante's "Matinee" (1992) and "The Independent" (2000) starring Jerry Stiller. I'm looking forward to a biopic about Roger Corman.
Best disco song about disco music? "Bend over Chuck Berry" by the Village Persons
http://snltranscripts.jt.org/78/78qrock.phtml
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donhonyc
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jan 13, 2003
Posts: 1173
From: The Quiet EAST Village
| Posted: 2005-11-09 10:40 am Permalink
Quote:
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On 2005-11-08 11:58, Geeky Tiki wrote:
Do you mean the same group that was the British version of the Monkees updated by Malcolm McLaren to cash in on punk rock?
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Um..interesting comparison, and one that I think I may have heard before...but there is no comparison. Bit of a reach. McLaren may take the credit for 'creating' The Sex Pistols, but he also has a reputation for being the world's biggest bullsh*tter. Same could be said for the Fowley/Runaways sicheeayshun.
The Monkees were conceived by Hollywood and consisted of two pretty boy actors (Davy, Mickey'), one pretty boy out of work musician (Peter), and one sometime working, somewhat pretty-boy singer/songwriter (Mike).
If this same audition were held in London circa 1976, I don't think you would see Lydon and company getting on line.
The only Monkee/Pistols connection was that the Pistols did a cover of The Monkees' tune "I'm not Your Stepping Stone".
[ This Message was edited by: donhonyc 2005-11-09 10:41 ]
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Gigantalope
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: 913
From: Shinola, California
| Posted: 2005-11-09 6:42 pm Permalink
King Bushwich the 33rd...excellant point about Movies about movies bieng bad movies. Ed Wood was a great film.
As trite as it's become on it's own, Austin Powers as a parody of the '60s spy movies was great. The Dance sceens are pajama soakers...
A great Parody Dance Song from a film was "F_ _ _ You" by "Dean and the Weenies" (Also of the Velvet Fagbar)
It was an excellant song with rants about everyone...
Not enough good parody around.
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otikiniko
Tiki Socialite
Joined: May 10, 2005
Posts: 120
From: The Molokai (or a studio 3 minutes away)
| Posted: 2005-11-10 10:41 am Permalink
My 2 Examples, both good (IMHO):
1. "Rock Your Socks" - Tenacious D; absolutely silly, yet entirely catchy and reverent song about rock.
2. "Living In Oblivion"; it literally pains me to watch this movie it's so close to real. akin to watching "Lost in La Mancha" but it's fiction.
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