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Tiki Central Forums » » Creating Tiki » » Other Crafts » » Shag & Other Lowbrow Art question to ponder...
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Shag & Other Lowbrow Art question to ponder...
hewey
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4278
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2006-04-11 7:41 pm   Permalink

Why is it unnacceptable to do a painting in "Shag's style", but it's seemingly okay to rip off other lowbrow artists actual images? Think of how many people over the years have done their own Rat Fink based art (Ed "Big Daddy" Roth), or copied flying eyeballs (Kenneth Howard "Von Dutch"). This seems to be accepted, but do a Shag style painting and some people will villify you. What gives?
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tikiracer
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 09, 2005
Posts: 462
From: UK
Posted: 2006-04-11 11:32 pm   Permalink

Good question. Shag himself lists the influences on his work, Jim Flora etc. I think that a movement [low brow] has to morph and evolve, so it means you have to start somewhere. So I believe it's ok to start with a shag style peice, but you HAVE to move it forward or make it your own.

I think the real problem that Shag has is that his work is easy[ish] to mimic [but not capture the humour and style] and as he is commercial successful. Copycats want to try and make money out of his success.

You don't see many Mark Ryden copy pieces??


 
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Gigantalope
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: 913
From: Shinola, California
Posted: 2006-04-11 11:56 pm   Permalink

Hewey, I think it's just because Tiki folks feel a bit protective of him...and that his sucess, and identifiable style are easy to spot. (much like your own Ken Done)

I agree tho...the key to his work is the humor.

What other artists do you enjoy and look at for inspiration Hewey?



 
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foamy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 590
From: The Land of Pleasant Living
Posted: 2006-04-13 02:12 am   Permalink

Good question. There are lots of other illustrators out there that have people knocking off thier style on the cheap(er) and making a living at it. Brad Holland, Bill Meyer, Guy Billout and Michael Schwaub to name a few and they all have multiple people mimicking their styles and publishing those styles in international illustration books where illustrators showcase their work for art directors and ad agencies. Shamelessly and profitably. When demand for a particular artist's work reaches the point where they can no longer grind it out fast enough and/or they price themselves out of three quarters of the market, someone will step in and fill it. Keeping in mind: You get what you pay for.

Agle has a devoted following in the tiki world. It's what brought him (and tiki) out of the shadows. He now does more "art" than "illustration," I'm guessing. I'm thinking that he is considered, now, more "artist" than "illustrator". Though, I don't know how that works. Unless it's us that does it for him. That, and it's only tikiphiles that do any villifying (is that a word?). Tikiphiles consider him "ohana" and it appears that we are much given to protecting our own. To a fault, I think. But, that's a different rant. All that aside, there are still many artists out there trading on his style in one way or another.

Just my take on it.

[ This Message was edited by: foamy 2006-04-13 05:09 ]


 
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pappythesailor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 1564
From: Mass.
Posted: 2006-04-13 02:30 am   Permalink

I've thought for a while myself. How come people don't say: "They're ripping off Hannah Barbera"?

 
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hewey
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4278
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2006-04-16 8:27 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-04-11 23:56, Gigantalope wrote:

What other artists do you enjoy and look at for inspiration Hewey?




I think this deserves a thread of its own. Probably exists somewhere in the TC nether nether.
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hewey
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4278
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2006-04-17 03:01 am   Permalink

I posted this question on SketchKult (kustom art forums) and got a great response from a guy called "Jeepers Creepers":

Quote:

This is easy

Dutch-Flying Eye
Williams-Kootchie Kootie
Roth-Rat Fink
Coop-Devil Girl
Kozik-Smoking Bunny
Shag-??????

You're talking iconography vs. STYLE. Each of those characters can be done in a different manner and included in someone's art without being considered a rip-off. But to say that you did a painting in a 'Shag style' sounds close to plagarism. Instead, say I did this painting in a 60's Mod style which is what Shag is doing; he'll admit he's not the first to paint that way...


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foamy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 590
From: The Land of Pleasant Living
Posted: 2006-04-17 05:19 am   Permalink

So, what's worse? Working someone's (or "a") style or working a noted icon? I'm going for the latter. Though, I really don't have a problem with any of it so long as you're not trying to replicate for profit. That is to say: come so close to something that's been done that a viewer has to look at for a second to realize that the "noted" artist didn't do it. Whoever does those "Shag-like" paintings on ebay, and just changes a few details easily falls into that catagory. They have no shame and they're no artist.

 
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marika
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 115
From: montreal
Posted: 2006-04-17 1:46 pm   Permalink

Superflat, flat or low-brow is really a world wide trend these days. I think it's fine if you do flat as long as you can do something else. Contrarely to Tikiracer I don't think you should start there I think you should start with the good old school painting and then if you want to try flat you do it but with a basic knowledge of painting.

Doing flat doesn't make anyone Shag that's for sure.


 
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sirginn
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Oct 20, 2003
Posts: 279
From: Sunset Cliffs , CA
Posted: 2006-04-17 3:32 pm   Permalink

Shag is not the only one with reproductions on e-bay, looks like someone tried to duplicate Ryden's masterpeice "exotica".

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Tiki-Lounge-Oil-Painting-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ7407827740QQcategoryZ20135QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem




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marika
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 29, 2006
Posts: 115
From: montreal
Posted: 2006-04-17 8:13 pm   Permalink

The best thing is to report the item to ebay.

 
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Unga Bunga
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 06, 2003
Posts: 5820
From: CaliTikifornia
Posted: 2006-04-17 10:57 pm   Permalink

What you guys failed to mention is..
SHAG is on a mission from God.

~Elwood


 
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tikiracer
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 09, 2005
Posts: 462
From: UK
Posted: 2006-04-17 11:45 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-04-17 15:32, sirginn wrote:
Shag is not the only one with reproductions on e-bay, looks like someone tried to duplicate Ryden's masterpeice "exotica".

http://cgi.ebay.com/Large-Tiki-Lounge-Oil-Painting-NO-RESERVE_W0QQitemZ7407827740QQcategoryZ20135QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem






I sit corrected.


 
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foamy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 590
From: The Land of Pleasant Living
Posted: 2006-04-18 02:18 am   Permalink

That is (almost) exactly what I was talking about. That is blatant plagerisim. Someone with a lot of skill went to an awful lot of trouble to do that. Why? Why not just say "I painted a copy of Mark Ryden's Exotica and now I want to unload it." ? Everything might (might, I say) have been cool. They don't mention Ryden, in fact—they don't even mention themselves (warning flags with flares). Screw mentioning it to ebay—someone should tell Ryden. That's just wrong. What a mis-use of talent.


Ryden's


ebay work

I notice they took care to get a few things not quite right.

[ This Message was edited by: foamy 2006-04-18 04:53 ]


 
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foamy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 590
From: The Land of Pleasant Living
Posted: 2006-04-18 04:55 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-04-17 22:57, Unga Bunga wrote:
What you guys failed to mention is..
SHAG is on a mission from God.

~Elwood



S'plain that to me Lucy.

[ This Message was edited by: foamy 2006-04-18 04:56 ]


 
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