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Tiki Central Forums Creating Tiki Other Crafts A 'lil rant on criticisim
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A 'lil rant on criticisim
Monkeyman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 04, 2003
Posts: 2348
From: Vista, CA
Posted: 2006-12-15 8:29 pm   Permalink

We are lucky to have artists the caliber of Squid and Grog here on TC. Very very lucky.

That is not intended to slight the rest of us who pursue it for semi-fun but in reality we dont starve if our art sux....

We just file it away in our garage and try again.

Foamy's original question is totally legit and I hope that someday we can benefit from each others critical eye.

There are already enough fights and rubbernecking on TC lets get along on this one.




 
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yumyumkid
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Oct 05, 2004
Posts: 93
From: Northern FL
Posted: 2006-12-15 8:31 pm   Permalink

/popcorn

 
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Chongolio
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Oct 02, 2002
Posts: 2765
From: The Coast of Kauai
Posted: 2006-12-15 10:49 pm   Permalink


Sung to the Shirley Bassey's "Goldfinger"

Grogfinger
He's the man, the man with the Neanderthal touch
A caveman touch
Such a cold finger
Beckons you to enter his cave of sin
But don't go in

stone age words he will pour in your ear
But his grunts can't disguise what you fear
For a tiki artist knows when he's dissed them
It's the diss of death ...

From Mister Grogfinger
tiki artist, beware of his heart of stone
This heart is stone

Stone age words he will pour in your ear
But his grunts can't disguise what you fear
For a tiki artist knows when he's dissed them
It's the diss of death ...

From Mister Grogfinger
tiki artist, beware of his heart of stone
This heart is stone
He loves only stone
Only stones
He loves stones
He loves only stones
Only stones
He loves stones.

You know we love ya Groggie. One day I hope my art will recieve the Grog FInger
Chongolio

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Coconut Wired Podcast
Barefoot bloggin'


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RevBambooBen
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 7419
From: Huntikington Beach
Posted: 2006-12-15 11:31 pm   Permalink



Grogs middle Finger is kinda like this pic.

You can take it either way!!!

p.s. enough with the anal babble. Just get to work and create!!! Make a million things! Good or bad! Just create man!! Create!!!!!

Arrr!!!


 
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Tamapoutini
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 1530
From: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Posted: 2006-12-16 12:37 am   Permalink

Hear, hear: the last two posts...

Peace. Tama


 
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Jungle Trader
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 04, 2003
Posts: 3730
From: Trader's Jungle Outpost, Turlock, Ca.
Posted: 2006-12-16 08:25 am   Permalink

yeah dammit, shutup and create.

 
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Jungle Trader
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 04, 2003
Posts: 3730
From: Trader's Jungle Outpost, Turlock, Ca.
Posted: 2006-12-16 08:25 am   Permalink

and drink

 
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Tiki Shark Art
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 3375
From: The volcanic Big Island of Hawaii
Posted: 2006-12-16 2:54 pm   Permalink

I love getting feed back. Getting waves of glowing love is what keeps you going sometimes. But, also there are some very MAJOR talents on TC. Artists who are world class level. They are where I would like to be as an artist, and if I can get pointers from them, that's freaking fantastic. And, if any yahoo throws spit balls, it's just a laugh. Artist have to put their stuff out there sooner or later. that's part of the game. You gota know your art isn't going to be for everyone.

The best reaction an artist can get is ANY reaction. People love it or hate it. the worst reaction is having people not remember your work at all.

I always knew Grog's middle finger was actually a thumbs up.


 
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TikiLaLe
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 09, 2006
Posts: 891
From: Largo, Floriduh
Posted: 2006-12-16 6:35 pm   Permalink

Heard this many many many many moons ago on the Lower East Side !!!!

"Art is what a sucker, oops I mean customer will pay you" !!!!!


 
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teaKEY
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Posts: 3664
From: The thumb !
Posted: 2006-12-16 8:20 pm   Permalink

what if the creator posting that wants some feedback asks a question that they want answered or a choice maybe. Should I do this or will this be better if I do this or that.

don't we all like to go shopping with a friend so that they can help us decide.
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Benzart
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 09, 2004
Posts: 10358
From: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
Posted: 2006-12-18 07:52 am   Permalink

Well, by now we all know that this seems to be a very touchy subject. It seems everyone wants feedback and not necessarily criticism. While I am probably the biggest offender of "Sugar coating" my feedback, I do it for many reasons. Probably the Number One reason being that a Tiny bit of negative criticism turns into a Mountain before long, even though most of it comes in humorously. We All know that negative posts get out of hand and the suffering artist reads all that crap and may likely never post on TC again and may well never pick up a tool again. I personally like to mentor and promote sculpture and I enjoy prodding young artists as well as the seasoned ones. I just believe a bit of sugar goes a Lot further than a bit of vinegar. I prefer to show by example or if I have a stern critique, it will usually be in the form of a PM and not for the general public. I Know we are all big boys and girls but it just isn't that easy. Like most of the seasoned artists I can see flaws in my work that No one else would possibly notice and I see the same flaws in everyone else's work. Most everyone else sees a lot of flaws that they don't deem problematic and are no big deal. Every art work has flaws in it and as we grow as artists, we learn to see those flaws and learn how to correct them. Weather we do or not depends on the piece. Some art is intentionally rough, quick and has no thought given for any further refinement. An artist can spend hours and hours going after every little flaw and refining and refining it to death, (I am headed toward that with my current piece)but that <happily, doesn't happen often. So when we talk about constructive criticism, we must take all that into account before we speak I believe.
But then again, I am only One of the artists here and you Know how we all love to be different. say what you will and print what you want, just be considerate is all I ask.
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squid
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 30, 2002
Posts: 1462
Posted: 2006-12-18 10:05 am   Permalink

What Benz said.

 
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Tamapoutini
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 1530
From: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Posted: 2006-12-18 11:51 am   Permalink

What Squid said.

Succinct Wisdom in every word Ben!


 
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mieko
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 01, 2006
Posts: 532
From: San Diego
Posted: 2006-12-18 11:52 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-12-18 07:52, Benzart wrote:
Every art work has flaws in it and as we grow as artists, we learn to see those flaws and learn how to correct them.



As someone that's pretty new, getting tips on flaws and how to correct them from experienced carvers is an incredible experience, and something I treasure. I do appreciate Ben's way of sugar coating things, as it's always nice to hear good things about what you're doing, but from what I've seen he's able to tell you different ways you can do things, in case you are looking for improvement.

Having this forum to get encouragement and tips on improving is the biggest difference between my carving and all my other abandoned hobbies. Without encouragement and ways of learning to improve, I find it very difficult to stick with things.


 
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Rev. Griz
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 75
From: Distant Shores of the Great Salt Lake
Posted: 2006-12-18 12:00 pm   Permalink

I'm a musician so I don't know a lot about the world of carving and painting and whatnot, but I can tell you for sure that about nine times out of ten when someone asks you what you think of something, they really don't want to know what you think unless it's what they want to hear. They have already decided what's right and what's wrong with their art and they're just looking to you for validation. If you don't give it to them, then problems ensue.

People who are serious about their art and dedicated to improving will learn not only how to produce that art but to evaluate that art as objectively as possible. Those that don't either have a terrible time succeeding artistically or, if they happen to have a metric buttload of natural talent, end up being the nutcase geniuses like Van Gogh or Jim Morrison.

Separating taste from actual knowledge is hard to do. You have to have a certain about of knowledge about the craft to be able to look beyond whether or not a particular piece appeals to you and see the level of artistry behind it, and even then it's hard. To me, giving constructive criticism is a two way relationship of trust. If you ask me for feedback, you have to trust my opinion, and my good will and objectivity. I have to trust that you're actually asking for real criticism and that you won't hold my opinions against me. I will never ask anyone what they thought about something I did unless I have this relationship of trust and I feel they're qualified to evaluate my work.

Unless I have this kind of relationship with someone, when asked for criticism about nine times out of ten I'll say "hey, that's great! Keep up the good work!" I figure that since I'm pretty sure that they don't really care what my opinion is, the best thing I can do for them is to offer encouragement. It's also been my experience that just about anyone can succeed to some degree in artistic endevours if they're willing to put in the time.
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Dissolute Missionary, Church of Jim Beam Orthodox
Spreading good news by the bottle in the jungles of Utah


 
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