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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Music The Buffet Rant and what it means.
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The Buffet Rant and what it means.
Beach Bum Scott
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Joined: Oct 28, 2008
Posts: 307
From: The Ranch in CO
Posted: 2010-07-03 2:24 pm   Permalink

A ParrotHead circus... middle aged folks, wearing hawaiian print, drinking alot and wearing funny hats...

Is different from a Tiki Oasis event/circus how????? I think thats even this years theme too.

Oh wait that's right the music is different... and you never hear ANY Exotica music covers...

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[ This Message was edited by: Beach Bum Scott 2010-07-03 18:27 ]


 
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phinz
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 196
From: Southeast of Disorder
Posted: 2010-07-03 3:56 pm   Permalink

Quote:


Oh that's right the music is different... and you never hear ANY Exotica music covers...




Actually, hasn't Jimmy done a cover of Quiet Village with Martin Denny performing with him?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UDQ1J6/ref=dm_mu_dp_trk14


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Beach Bum Scott
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Oct 28, 2008
Posts: 307
From: The Ranch in CO
Posted: 2010-07-03 6:30 pm   Permalink

Again sarcasm is lost in the interweb translation...

I was referring to a few posts back where someone was commenting on JB covering/using songs.
Not like our beloved Denny or Lyman would do such a thing...
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phinz
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 196
From: Southeast of Disorder
Posted: 2010-07-03 10:05 pm   Permalink

I knew what you meant.

Yeah, they'd never, *ever* stoop to doing a cover, would they.
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Dr. Zarkov
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 07, 2008
Posts: 367
Posted: 2010-07-10 11:40 am   Permalink

I'm sorry, but I just can't understand why some people here get all worked up over Buffett and Parrotheads. As long as the Parrotheads don't try to pretend that what they are doing is real Tiki, I really don't care.

I remember in 2005 when my wife and I had dinner with the station manager of Festival FM at the Fringe Festival in Edinburgh, Scotland, where I volunteered as a DJ for a week playing Tiki show to largely uncomprehending Brits. Several of the younger DJs (they call them "presenters" over there) complained to him because they thought I was playing old boring big band music -- they were incapable of telling the difference between Glenn Miller and Billy Eckstine -- and their idea of contemporary rock was mid-1970s Fleetwood Mac and Dee-Lite from the early nineties. The station manager (who is my age) and I agreed with my observation that younger people tend to be less tolerant: If some kind of music is not their cup of tea, they cultivate a passionate hate for it. When you get older you tend to simply avoid music you don't like without wasting unnecessary energy or karma by getting all worked up over it.

In the late sixties and early seventies Buffett was a favorite of my crowd of college friends; I still have all of his early albums on LP and still remember buying his first one at E.J. Korvettes in Bergen County, N.J. In those days he was considered a singer-songwriter of the same caliber as Steve Goodman and John Prine. And it may surprise you to learn that he also was considered quite hip at the time -- marrying Tom McGuane's sister encouraged that view. For every bouncy fun tune like "Margaritaville" there was "A Pirate Looks at 40." But after his first handful of albums he started to repeat himself and seemed unable to come up with clever tunes. I lost interest and haven't bought one of his recordings in decades.

As for the Margaritaville, some of my favorite memories are of the tiny bar on the back of the one in the French Quarter in New Orleans back in the nineties. You entered on Decatur Street and the place was barely big enough for a small bandstand and a few tables. On several trips there I would go in on a Tuesday or Wednesday evening and singer-songwriter Mike West was performing, sometimes with his wife Mishkin or other musicians who would sit in. There were never more than a few people there and they were all locals who along with Mike I had the pleasure of getting to know, including bartenders on their off hours, workers on river barges, other musicians, etc. Sometimes tourists would walk in, take one look around and then walk out. And unlike the clubs along Frenchman Street in Treme, there was no bucket passed around after every song, although Mike did sell his CDs, which I am delighted to own, featuring his acerbic and unromantic songs about living in New Orleans (check him out on Amazon).

Well, enough of my rambling on. I guess what I am trying to say is: If you don't like Buffett's music, don't listen to it; if you don't like Parrotheads, don't hang out with them; and if you can't avoid that, be nice to them and treat it as an opportunity to introduce them to the wonders of true Tiki.

[ This Message was edited by: Dr. Zarkov 2010-07-23 08:05 ]


 
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TikiHardBop
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 413
From: Rockledge, FL
Posted: 2010-07-13 10:28 am   Permalink

Try living here in the Sunshine State and you may start to form a different opinion. JB is pretty much everywhere down here. And every bar within 5 miles of the ocean has to look like the inside of a Margaritaville. And if you are on a cruise ship or anywhere in Monroe county (the Keys), the bands are required by law to play one Bob Marley and two JB and songs during every set.

And yes, I am slowly trying to introduce my Parrothead friends to real culture, but it just doesn't seem to take. They understand the proper way to make a margarita and they agree its better, but the next time you are over, there they go with the damn slushy machine. And there's soo many of them! Aarghh!

I'm just ranting here, but it seems like the entire state is full of Parrotheads, faux bikers, Entourage/Jersey Shore wannabes, or old ladies with Red Hats (or recently, blue thongs (flip flops, not that kind of thong, thank god!)).
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phinz
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 196
From: Southeast of Disorder
Posted: 2010-07-13 1:34 pm   Permalink

I lived in Florida and there were plenty of places to escape the Parrothead culture. If you're seeing it everywhere you go, you're going to the wrong places. I even went to Key West in February and only heard half a dozen Jimmy Buffett songs all week. Stay off of Duval Street and hit the real bars and you won't hear any.

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[ This Message was edited by: phinz 2010-07-13 13:35 ]


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TikiHardBop
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 21, 2009
Posts: 413
From: Rockledge, FL
Posted: 2010-07-14 10:18 am   Permalink

Try coming up Brevard-ways. The wife works as lifestyle reporter as well as a restaurant reviewer for the local paper, so I don't have much choice but to visit a lot of these places. We've had five, count 'em, five new places open up or re-christen themselves as "tiki bars" in the last two months alone. They all look like Margaritavilles with a couple of tikis and maybe some palmetto thatch (which is technically "chiki" or "chickee"). Throw in some surfboards and a parrot or two and voila! Oh and some NASCAR memorabilia as well...

And when I go down to the Keys, I usually stay in the Marathon to Big Pine area, occasionally up to Islamorada. Stopped by Key West a couple of years ago and couldn't believe how it's changed. Did the whole "Duval crawl" and I didn't see a single sex shop! I also heard that they don't allow you to take your dogs in the bars anymore! And yes, there are a few places you can go to escape "the man" down there (the Rhino, the No-Name), but it's getting harder and harder. Thank god they saved The Brass Monkey in Marathon!



 
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phinz
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 196
From: Southeast of Disorder
Posted: 2010-07-14 2:05 pm   Permalink

The *state* doesn't allow dogs, but local government can pass laws allowing dogs in outdoor bars. Key West is in the process of writing and approving the ordinance.

Schooner Wharf, Chart Room, Green Parrot, Finnegan's Wake... Even Sloppy Joe's. All rarely if ever have Bubba music. Plenty of other places too.

I usually stay in North Key Largo, but head south to Islamorada and farther on a regular basis. I didn't hear Jimmy at all this last time except when I stopped at Largo Cargo, and they warn you when you walk in the door as to what you're about to encounter.

Apparently the style/music sells or Brevard wouldn't be able to support so many new businesses. Perhaps it's time for a move to another coast?

BTW, if you didn't see a sex shop, you didn't go to the right place. Fairvilla is *huge!* I met the owner at The Chart Room. Really nice guy. Plays Santa Claus in the Key West Christmas Parade every year.
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Baron von Tiki
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Mar 09, 2010
Posts: 86
From: Wichita KS
Posted: 2010-07-15 01:10 am   Permalink

NASCAR memorabilia in a tropical setting? My stomach just evacuated. Anyway. . . .

I don't think it has anything to do with Jimmy Buffett or his music per se. Buffett is just the face of the Parrothead crowd.

I think the book "Tiki Modern" illustrates the difference between true Tiki and Margaritaville: Intellectual underpinnings. As we all know, the peak of Tiki's popularity in the 50s owes much to the boom of atomic-age tech, the large groups of homogenous middle-class families who were supported and fascinated by those industries, contrasted with the fantasy of the "free savages" who weren't bound by societal constraints.

The music, too, is similar. I mean, although it's labelled "pop," "space age pop," and "easy listening," exotica and space age pop have more to do with jazz than other genres. And jazz was also the darling of the intellectuals of the time -- the Kerouac/Ginsberg reading beatniks.

So, intellectualism and the modern art movement is what separates Tiki from Margaritaville; It's also what separates a Polynesian Pop enthusiast from your stereo-typical Parrothead.

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[ This Message was edited by: Baron von Tiki 2010-07-15 01:12 ]


 
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bigtikidude
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 8897
From: Anaheim,Ca.
Posted: 2010-07-15 01:43 am   Permalink

yawn
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2010-07-15 06:23 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-07-15 01:10, Baron von Tiki wrote:
NASCAR memorabilia in a tropical setting? My stomach just evacuated. Anyway. . . .

I don't think it has anything to do with Jimmy Buffett or his music per se. Buffett is just the face of the Parrothead crowd.

I think the book "Tiki Modern" illustrates the difference between true Tiki and Margaritaville: Intellectual underpinnings. As we all know, the peak of Tiki's popularity in the 50s owes much to the boom of atomic-age tech, the large groups of homogenous middle-class families who were supported and fascinated by those industries, contrasted with the fantasy of the "free savages" who weren't bound by societal constraints.

The music, too, is similar. I mean, although it's labelled "pop," "space age pop," and "easy listening," exotica and space age pop have more to do with jazz than other genres. And jazz was also the darling of the intellectuals of the time -- the Kerouac/Ginsberg reading beatniks.

So, intellectualism and the modern art movement is what separates Tiki from Margaritaville; It's also what separates a Polynesian Pop enthusiast from your stereo-typical Parrothead.

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[ This Message was edited by: Baron von Tiki 2010-07-15 01:12 ]



Good point. I also would add that what separates us from them is that parrotheads are passive participants, whereas Tiki people include a LOT of artists and designers, from the musicians, carvers, scultpers, researchers, archivers to home tiki bar builders. Seems like almost everyone here creates something, and then gets drunk...while parrotheads juts get drunk (and listen to inferior, maudlin music). True, on the surface, the parrot heads might look like us, but I would say the scenes are completely different from each other.

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[ This Message was edited by: lucas vigor 2010-07-15 06:24 ]


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phinz
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Posts: 196
From: Southeast of Disorder
Posted: 2010-07-15 1:06 pm   Permalink

Quote:

[i]On 2010-07-15 06:23, lucas vigor wrote:while parrotheads juts get drunk (and listen to inferior, maudlin music). True, on the surface, the parrot heads might look like us, but I would say the scenes are completely different from each other.



That's a *really* big brush you're painting with.
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2010-07-15 6:08 pm   Permalink

I stand by what I said. A lot of us involved in Tiki are more or less also caretakers of tiki, keeping it alive. Even those of us not directly involved in the creation of Tiki, are collectors or otherwise involved in doing research about Tiki. There is a lot in our world to explore and find out about. Not so with the parrothead scene. That's more like one big tail-gate party.

I am merely responding to the poster who said that we look a lot like Parrrot heads, what with all the hawaiian shirts, fat bellies and stupid hats.

I am saying there is a lot more to Tiki then that. Some of us may look like parrot heads, but this scene is vastly different from the buffet scene.

I know that is kind of hard for you buffet people to accept, because you so much want Buffet culture to be interchangeable with tiki culture.

Phinz, you seriously need to read any of Sven Kirsten's books to realize the crucial difference between us, and the generically bland buffet scene.

Buffet is to tiki as Kenny G is to jazz. There just is no comparison.
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JOHN-O
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2691
From: Dogtown, USA
Posted: 2010-07-15 10:55 pm   Permalink

Baron Von, you get a spelling gold star for today.

Everyone else, go stand in the corner until recess...

http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/viewtopic.php?topic=36260&forum=13&vpost=526949

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