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Origin of early Trader Vic's logo Tiki found! |
SoccerTiki
Grand Member (8 years) 
Joined: Feb 24, 2005
Posts: 1825
From: TheSoccerTikiGrotto, Island of LongBeach
|  Posted: 2007-05-13 10:05 pm Permalink
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On 2007-04-18 13:07, bigbrotiki wrote:
The Tiki design used for this mug has a rather compelling Polynesian pop history, too. It was used by several important Tiki Temples, who either based it on a original Maori Tiki from an Oceanic Art book (which I have not found yet !), or, as it was common in Poly pop, swiped it from each other.
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Would that book be "Arts of the South Seas", 1946 Museum of Modern Art, New York???
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TikiGardener
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 1360
From: 1st website dedicated to Tiki Gardens
| Posted: 2007-05-13 10:54 pm Permalink
I have an image of a carving that was purchased at Tiki
Gardens that looks similar this guy.
Much simpler, but similar.
TG
http://www.exotic-tiki-gardens.com
[ This Message was edited by: TikiGardener 2007-05-13 22:55 ]
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cheekytiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 1091
From: The Haole Hut, London, UK
| Posted: 2007-05-14 03:06 am Permalink
I recieved this as a birthday preent from the manager of TVs, it is one of the new candle holders they have had made.
It's obviously based on the same Tiki design, but you can see the design has been even further diluted
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Bay Park Buzzy
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 2829
From: West Bay Park, San Diego, CA
| Posted: 2007-05-14 09:52 am Permalink
Little older version of the lamp base:
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bigbrotiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 11104
From: Tiki Island, above the Silverlake
| Posted: 2007-05-14 11:23 am Permalink
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On 2007-05-13 22:54, TikiGardener wrote:
I have an image of a carving that was purchased at Tiki Gardens that looks similar this guy.
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True, but this is because the posture and the facial Tatoos ARE the standard style that was prevalent in Maori-dom. But yours has fat lips, while the Traders'/DeYoung Museum one has the exposed, ratty-looking teeth that can be found on dried Maori heads, as seen on page 178 of the BOT.
That makes for a very different expression.
Also, the three/four finger hands on the Tiki Gardens one are more common in Maori Tikis, while this guy's full five finger hands are not seen that often, but all the TV Tiki copies also seem to have them.
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On 2007-05-14 03:06, cheekytiki wrote:
I recieved this as a birthday present from the manager of TVs, it is one of the new candle holders they have had made.
It's obviously based on the same Tiki design, but you can see the design has been even further diluted....
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...by the ASIAN carvers that T.V. gets their stuff from nowadays.
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On 2007-05-13 22:05, SoccerTiki wrote:
Would that book be "Arts of the South Seas", 1946 Museum of Modern Art, New York???
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I am confused about this question. Are you saying it IS in that book? If so, I can't find it in there...
I thought it would be clear that "Arts of The South Seas" would be the first book where I would look, as well as "Oceanic Art" (1954), and I would have found it in their pages. These two books were used quite a bit by 50s/60s Tiki temple designers and Tiki carvers, because they were among the earliest out there when the trend took off. But by the end of the 50s/early 60s there were many more Oceanic/primitive art books available, just look at this:
...No!, not THIS, but THAT  :
In this impressive book shelf we find the titles "Oceanic Sculpture", "Art of the South Pacific Islands", "Folk Art of Oceania", "Native art of the Pacific something", "The Arts of The South Pacific", and lots more Primitive Art books. I don't even have half of these. Nor do I have that lamp...
Is there anything else? Oh yeah, the above photo also proves that research CAN be fun, and that if you were a primitive/modern art coinoisseur in the 60s, you had nekkid chicks hanging out around your pad.
BUT back to the Logo Tiki at hand: He made his first appearance as early as 1955, (that is the copyright on the Traders Beverly Hills menu), when most of these books weren't around yet. So the fact that he is NOT in the two first mentioned, early Oceanic Art books makes it very likely that he was either
A) in an early 50s DeYoung Museum catalog,
B) in an SF newspaper Magazine article about the museum or the Oceanic Art trend, or
C) even owned (and later bestowed to the museum) by the Trader himself.
If a local TCer would go to the De Young museum library/archive, and search and ask them for the history of that Tiki and any pre '55 catalogs/publications, we might find out more.
[ This Message was edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-14 11:30 ]
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Cammo
Tiki Socialite
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 1951
From: San Diego
| Posted: 2007-05-14 5:03 pm Permalink
(hint hint)
de Young Museum at Golden Gate Park
Hours & Admissions
Hours
Tuesday through Sunday, 9:30 a.m. to 5:15 p.m., Fridays until 8:45 p.m. (selected galleries open 5 to 8:45 p.m.)
Admission
Adults $10, Seniors 65 and over $7, Youths 13-17 $6, College Students with ID $6, Children 12 and under FREE.
First Tuesday of each month FREE. Special exhibition fees, if any, still apply.
Muni riders with Fast Pass or transfer receive a $2 discount.
FAMSF Members are always FREE. Not a Member? Join today!
24-Hour Hotline
415.863.3330
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POCKETIKI
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 02, 2006
Posts: 401
From: UK
| Posted: 2007-05-14 5:18 pm Permalink
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...But by the end of the 50s/early 60s there were many more Oceanic/primitive art books available, just look at this:
...No!, not THIS, but THAT :
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OOooh! You big tease! Sins of the flesh...we are weak...STOP this devilry at once! Now concentrate Trader Jim....where did you put those 'South Sea Arts' books, you've got some serious research to do! Just one more peep first? Oh, go on then, but you'd better be quick!...I'm done!
Trader Jim - Make mine a Trader Vic's Mai-Tai...with embellishments!
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VampiressRN
Grand Member (7 years) 
Joined: Nov 23, 2006
Posts: 5668
From: Sun City Lincoln Hills (NorCal)
| Posted: 2007-05-14 6:48 pm Permalink
I would be happy to go to the museum and do the research, unfortunately I can't do it until Saturday, June 9th. My weekends are full until then and that annoying day-job takes up my weekdays. If nobody else is able to get there before me, then count me in on the assignment. I would need some research guidance, but could easily spend the day there Saturday & Sunday as needed in order to find the necessary information. I'll stay posted here to see if anyone else beats me to the punch. I have never done any research for the board and know I would learn a lot. 
_________________
 "Oh waiter, another cocktail please!!!"
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christiki295
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3811
From: LA-2547 mls east Hawaii &5500 Easter Is
| Posted: 2007-05-14 6:55 pm Permalink
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On 2007-05-14 03:06, cheekytiki wrote:
I recieved this as a birthday present from the manager of TVs, it is one of the new candle holders they have had made.
It's obviously based on the same Tiki design, but you can see the design has been even further diluted
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Excellent. Now when I look at these candles, I will be happy that the historical origins continue today. No Devolution!
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bigbrotiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 11104
From: Tiki Island, above the Silverlake
| Posted: 2007-05-14 7:37 pm Permalink
That is debatable. To me it is another example of how Asian Import Tikis miss the point: The facial features are less square, less blocky (i.e. less primitive) than the original, and more rounded off and organic. The small nose, the precise eyes, and the tapering off to the chin makes it more like a human face. These carvers simply CANNOT carve "primitive", even fake primitive, because they spent their life carving the elegant, smooth forms and lines of Buddhist sculptures.
Sorry Jamie, I wanted to avoid becoming specific because I didn't want to poopoo your present, but while to some it might just be another phase of Tiki evolution (1950s: Pacific Tikis too expensive, Americans carve them---2000s" American Tikis too expensive: Asians carve them), to me Poly-Asian carvings are another example of Tiki devolution. 
[ This Message was edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-14 19:43 ]
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jpmartdog
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 27, 2005
Posts: 650
From: Amesbury, Mass
| Posted: 2007-05-14 7:44 pm Permalink
well said bigbro!
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cheekytiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 1091
From: The Haole Hut, London, UK
| Posted: 2007-05-15 01:48 am Permalink
Sven, I totally agree, I was using it as an example of how the design had been evolved, devolved or watered down.
Unfortunately this is the case with so many designs now, but I think as a thread it could be really interseting to see how different Tiki designs have changed through the years through creative "Chinese Whispers".
With the problem of the SE Asian imports, I actually told Trader Vics Designers about this a while back when they were here, but they didn't see the problem with it.
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bigbrotiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 11104
From: Tiki Island, above the Silverlake
| Posted: 2007-05-15 09:21 am Permalink
I know. The general public can't see the difference, and the stuff looks professional, is made with tropical wood, AND, most importantly, is cheap.
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On 2007-05-14 18:48, VampiressRN wrote:
I would be happy to go to the museum and do the research.....If nobody else is able to get there before me, then count me in on the assignment. I would need some research guidance......I'll stay posted here to see if anyone else beats me to the punch. I have never done any research for the board and know I would learn a lot.
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Thanks Vampiress, it actually is fun when you have a purpose. Basically the main thing you are looking for is the very photo that was used for this menu:
It must have been published DURING, or BEFORE the year 1955. Print this menu out so you can match the perspective of the photo.
So you ask the archivist/librarian for
A.) Any catalogs or flyers of their exhibits up to that (and including) that year
B.) Any press clippings from magazines or newspapers about their Museum up to that (and including) that year
..and search them for our Tiki photo. When found, make a photocopy of it and note publication title and date, and post it here,
Also, please get the provenance (history) of the original Tiki for us.
All this provided they have a library, and you can access it. Call them to find out. Just say you are a Tiki scholar working on a term paper.
PS: When looking through the material, BACKTRACK by years, starting with 1955. I don't know how long the museum has been in existence, but it is unlikely that this photo appeared anytime before 1945, and much more likely it was published closer to its usage date on the menu (1955).
[ This Message was edited by: bigbrotiki 2007-05-15 10:37 ]
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Fugu
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Feb 06, 2006
Posts: 121
From: Atlanta, Georgia
| Posted: 2007-05-15 11:05 am Permalink
I hope that I'm not derailing the thread, but I think that the swizzle stick/ cocktail pick might be modeled after a Trobriand spatula handle. This image is from Wingert's "Art of the Sourth Pacific Islands" (plate 54) and it looks very similar to the menu imagery (with a few modifications to the figure and spirals beneath the figure).
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Erika
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Apr 24, 2003
Posts: 130
From: N.J. (Philadelphia vicinity)
| Posted: 2007-05-15 11:25 am Permalink
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On 2007-05-14 18:48, VampiressRN wrote:
I would need some research guidance
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Two bits of advice:
1. Be ready to tell the librarian (or anyone at the museum whom you end up talking about it with) the accession number of the piece: 5523.
2. You might want to also ask check with the museum's rights and reproductions office. They're the ones who would grant permission for pictures to be published in books or elsewhere---they might have a record of where (in what publications) a certain work has been reproduced. (Some museums do, some don't---and some only partly do, like keeping track only of appearances in scholarly publications.) Here's contact info from the museum website (note: there's also an e-mail address there for a specific person):
Photo Services
Image rights and reproductions
415.750.3602
From the same contact page, here's the library's number (no e-mail address there, by the way):
Library
415.750.7603
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