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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Drinks and Food Lemon Hart 80 and Bacardi Select
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Lemon Hart 80 and Bacardi Select
Registered Astronaut
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 66
Posted: 2007-05-31 11:15 pm   Permalink

I noticed everytime I uncapped a bottle of Bacardi Select, I got a similar aroma to that of Lemon Hart Demerara. Procuring Lemon Hart 80 costs me about twenty bucks and a twenty mile drive, so I gave the two brands the old Pepsi challenge to see how they fared against each other in a blind taste test. Blindfolded, my girlfriend served me both in a clean snifter, with a mouthwash inbetween. The results were surprising. After she noted my preference, I had her do the same.

We both picked Bacardi Select. I know it sounds like blasphemy, but its true! The Lemon Hart was rougher, more alcoholic, and younger tasting. The Bacardi Select tasted like a premium Liquor, smooth, smokey, buttery, and finishing nicely. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about "keeping it real" whatever that means, but at a ten dollar difference in Price (depending on who's got Bacardi on sale, I can find it for ten bucks) I will now only buy Lemon Hart 151, and use Bacardi Select as a better replacement for Lemon Hart 80. How geeky I spend my evenings. My girlfriend was kindof embarassed.


 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 2617
Posted: 2007-06-01 06:17 am   Permalink

Do you work for Bacardi?

 
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GentleHangman
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Jun 23, 2006
Posts: 432
From: Stuart, Florida
Posted: 2007-06-01 07:09 am   Permalink

Quote:
We both picked Bacardi Select. I know it sounds like blasphemy, but its true! The Lemon Hart was rougher, more alcoholic, and younger tasting. The Bacardi Select tasted like a premium Liquor, smooth, smokey, buttery, and finishing nicely.


Rums that become more and more difficult to procure tend to lose favor with me over time anyway. . . but in this particular case I have to agree; I also prefer Bacardi Select over the Lemon Heart 80 for the exact same reasons Registered Astronaut posted.
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DJ HawaiianShirt
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 148
From: NoVA, DC
Posted: 2007-06-01 08:55 am   Permalink



[ This Message was edited by: DJ HawaiianShirt 2007-06-11 06:32 ]


 
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DemeraraDrinker
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Mar 28, 2007
Posts: 92
From: Kansas City
Posted: 2007-06-04 10:45 am   Permalink

Well those two rums are completely different. That's like comparing apples and oranges in a blind test and picking one.

Demerara rum has a certain rustic aroma and flavor to it. It has notes of smoke, leather, tar, and can be a bit astringent on the end (Lemon Hart, or El Dorado 5) or sometimes buttery and full (El Dorado 12 or 15). That's just the style of rum.

Bacardi Select is not quite as "provincial" as Demerara. It is made for a wider audience, so some of the sharp edges (so to speak) are rounded off (to the extent you can with a $10 bottle of rum).

I like them both for their own purposes. Lemon Hart when Demerara is called for (in some of the Bum's recipes) or Select in a rum punch or in place of Myers if I have to make large quantities.
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arriano
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 1238
From: Dog Patch - San Diego
Posted: 2007-06-04 11:44 am   Permalink

I've never drank Bacardi Select straight, but I have used it occassionally for cocktails that call for dark rum. Not the greatest, but I've not found anything particularlly wrong with it.

 
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Swanky
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 4965
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
Posted: 2007-06-04 11:52 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2007-05-31 23:15, Registered Astronaut wrote:
I noticed everytime I uncapped a bottle of Bacardi Select, I got a similar aroma to that of Lemon Hart Demerara. Procuring Lemon Hart 80 costs me about twenty bucks and a twenty mile drive, so I gave the two brands the old Pepsi challenge to see how they fared against each other in a blind taste test. Blindfolded, my girlfriend served me both in a clean snifter, with a mouthwash inbetween. The results were surprising. After she noted my preference, I had her do the same.

We both picked Bacardi Select. I know it sounds like blasphemy, but its true! The Lemon Hart was rougher, more alcoholic, and younger tasting. The Bacardi Select tasted like a premium Liquor, smooth, smokey, buttery, and finishing nicely. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about "keeping it real" whatever that means, but at a ten dollar difference in Price (depending on who's got Bacardi on sale, I can find it for ten bucks) I will now only buy Lemon Hart 151, and use Bacardi Select as a better replacement for Lemon Hart 80. How geeky I spend my evenings. My girlfriend was kindof embarassed.



Well, no, that makes no sense. It's like saying you like the taste of Hershey's milk chocolate over the taste of Lindt, and so, from now on, all recipes that call for chocolate will get Hershey's.

Maybe I am mis-reading you here. You can't just say "side by side, I preferred X and so I will use X instead of Y in recipes." Well, okay, you can, but then you are changing the recipe.

I had left Bacardi out of my bar and noticed The Bum called for it in certain recipes. I was shocked! Well, he knows his rums and he chose Bacardi because it has a certain flavor he was looking for. I may not drink it, but if I want to make that recipe as he makes it, I can't just exchange some Appleton White and get it.

Certainly, I take shortcuts with recipes. I will use any old rum to sample a recipe rather than finding the exact one called for. But I keep a lot of rums on hand and try to get close.

It would be a mistake to pick a favorite rum and use that in all cases, though maybe I am reading more into your post than I should.
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Registered Astronaut
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 66
Posted: 2007-06-07 11:48 pm   Permalink


[/quote]

Well, no, that makes no sense. It's like saying you like the taste of Hershey's milk chocolate over the taste of Lindt, and so, from now on, all recipes that call for chocolate will get Hershey's.

Maybe I am mis-reading you here. You can't just say "side by side, I preferred X and so I will use X instead of Y in recipes." Well, okay, you can, but then you are changing the recipe.

I had left Bacardi out of my bar and noticed The Bum called for it in certain recipes. I was shocked! Well, he knows his rums and he chose Bacardi because it has a certain flavor he was looking for. I may not drink it, but if I want to make that recipe as he makes it, I can't just exchange some Appleton White and get it.

Certainly, I take shortcuts with recipes. I will use any old rum to sample a recipe rather than finding the exact one called for. But I keep a lot of rums on hand and try to get close.

It would be a mistake to pick a favorite rum and use that in all cases, though maybe I am reading more into your post than I should.

[/quote]

I don't even know why I bother with the Tiki Central Forum sometimes... I step away for a few days, and everybody does their typical snobbish, rummier than thou crap, and I have to ask myself why I should make the effort to share if everybody's going to just one-up each other all the time. Maybe because I don't post 500 times a week some people think my opinion is invalid.

Listen, I make a lot of drinks. I know what Lemon Hart tastes like. I would have never expected it to taste similiar to Bacardi Select, but it does. If you don't believe me, try the Pepsi challenge yourself. They taste similar, but Bacardi is smoother. I would never substitute a puerto rican for a jamaican or a west indies for a cuban or vice versa. I also don't think I'm cutting corners if I feel I'm using the best possible products I can use to match the taste of what I'm trying to reproduce. Jeff Berry made a few mistakes hin his books if you compare and contrast them with other old tropical Bar Manuals. For instance, in his Demerara dry float he calls for 2 1/2 ounces of lime Juice. The trader calls for "juice of one lime." I don't know when the last time one lime made 2 and a half ounces of juice. Not trying to get off topic, but I get agitated when the Bum is invoked to squash a debate. He is solely responsible for my interest in Tropical drink making, but he's not god. If he calls for something, I take it as a suggestion, and then cross check. After all Tiki Ti doesn't use any Demerara rum in their drinks besides the Great White Shark, and they make Zombies with Matusalem 151. Blah.

Can I go now?



 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 2617
Posted: 2007-06-08 05:35 am   Permalink

First off my remark was kind of a joke.
I think you should drink what you like.
But one more thing that sucks about Bacardi
is that they are a big part of why you can't get other rums
here in the usa.
That whole pay to keep their rum on top thing.
But with that said Lemon hart in Coke is a great drink. One of my favs.
If you say Bacardi select is better that Lemon Hart I will try it.
Does the Bacardi have the vanilla flavor hint as well?
I think that is what makes a Lemon Hart and Coke.


 
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Swanky
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 4965
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
Posted: 2007-06-08 06:38 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2007-06-07 23:48, Registered Astronaut wrote:

Quote:


Well, no, that makes no sense. It's like saying you like the taste of Hershey's milk chocolate over the taste of Lindt, and so, from now on, all recipes that call for chocolate will get Hershey's.

Maybe I am mis-reading you here. You can't just say "side by side, I preferred X and so I will use X instead of Y in recipes." Well, okay, you can, but then you are changing the recipe.

I had left Bacardi out of my bar and noticed The Bum called for it in certain recipes. I was shocked! Well, he knows his rums and he chose Bacardi because it has a certain flavor he was looking for. I may not drink it, but if I want to make that recipe as he makes it, I can't just exchange some Appleton White and get it.

Certainly, I take shortcuts with recipes. I will use any old rum to sample a recipe rather than finding the exact one called for. But I keep a lot of rums on hand and try to get close.

It would be a mistake to pick a favorite rum and use that in all cases, though maybe I am reading more into your post than I should.




I don't even know why I bother with the Tiki Central Forum sometimes... I step away for a few days, and everybody does their typical snobbish, rummier than thou crap, and I have to ask myself why I should make the effort to share if everybody's going to just one-up each other all the time. Maybe because I don't post 500 times a week some people think my opinion is invalid.

Listen, I make a lot of drinks. I know what Lemon Hart tastes like. I would have never expected it to taste similiar to Bacardi Select, but it does. If you don't believe me, try the Pepsi challenge yourself. They taste similar, but Bacardi is smoother. I would never substitute a puerto rican for a jamaican or a west indies for a cuban or vice versa. I also don't think I'm cutting corners if I feel I'm using the best possible products I can use to match the taste of what I'm trying to reproduce. Jeff Berry made a few mistakes hin his books if you compare and contrast them with other old tropical Bar Manuals. For instance, in his Demerara dry float he calls for 2 1/2 ounces of lime Juice. The trader calls for "juice of one lime." I don't know when the last time one lime made 2 and a half ounces of juice. Not trying to get off topic, but I get agitated when the Bum is invoked to squash a debate. He is solely responsible for my interest in Tropical drink making, but he's not god. If he calls for something, I take it as a suggestion, and then cross check. After all Tiki Ti doesn't use any Demerara rum in their drinks besides the Great White Shark, and they make Zombies with Matusalem 151. Blah.

Can I go now?





Hey, lighten up. I think you may be reading more "snobbish" in there than exists. Since you quoted me, I am just going to point out my statements that are not telling you you are wrong or being snobbish. I say several times that I am not sure exactly what you are implying and so, I responded on various levels. I am no rum snob, though I wish I could be perhaps.

If you reread, you'll see my point is that A) if you want to be traditional about it, you make the drink according to the recipe. B) you are free to do whatever you like and I mean like, as in enjoy. I just am upholding tradition and would like for people to try to make drinks the way they were created, and not start out by changing them if possible. Not that I was sure you were, only that you might have been. I wanted clarity on that point.

You'll also notice that I embrace Bacardi as The Bum does. I am sure he has done far more research on these drinks both in written form and in tasting than nearly all of us, but that does not make it the end. I change a large number of his recipes to my own tastes.

It is a bane of the Internet world that more can be read into a simple paragraph of text than anyone ever intended. But I encourage you to read the words here as not snobbery, but as an educated and thoughtful conversation. You didn't come here to preach and us listen, but to discuss. And having met and talked and drank with a lot of these folks, I can assure you we're a genial bunch, who may, at times, get a little nerdy about our subjects, but are not given to rummier than thou snobbery, but more like, please make good drinks not crap snobbery, as I am sure you are too.

So, relax and talk.

Your point is now clear to me. You are saying Bacardi Select is a good substitute for Lemon Hart 80. That is good to know as that rum is very hard to get anywhere right now, and is never available in my area.
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martiki
Official Mixologist

Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 3058
From: http://www.smugglerscovesf.com
Posted: 2007-06-08 09:50 am   Permalink

Folks,

In order to keep this simple:

Lemon Hart 80 is a rum from Guyana made with a molasses derived from demerara sugar. It is aged in oak, and may or may not have a touch of caramel color added to balance its color profile. Most producers try to keep it under wraps if they add anything to the spirit. But most likely, as compared with other rums from the region like El Dorado, it is naturally full bodied with a little residual sugar from being a combination of pot and column distillation.

Bacardi Select is a molasses-based rum that is column distilled to 190 proof so that it is virtually vodka, then aged (as it is required by PR law) for 1 year. It is, however aged in stainless steel which imparts no character. It is then heavily colored, possibly flavored, and very lightly sweetened. It takes very little sugar to smooth out any spirit.

So what you are tasting with Lemon Hart is rum, and what you are tasting with Bacardi is sweetened flavored vodka. If you prefer it on your palate and in your drinks, then it's simply your taste preference, which is of course fine and up to you, but know that they are not particularly comparable.


 
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swizzle
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 03, 2007
Posts: 772
From: Melbourne,Australia
Posted: 2007-06-13 9:05 pm   Permalink

Is Bacardi select a white rum?The white Bacardi sold here is known as Bacardi Superior.

 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 2617
Posted: 2007-06-13 11:14 pm   Permalink

No it is dark. martiki That was a good explanation thank you.
I did have a chance to try Bacardi Select And I must say it was not bad.
It did have the vanilla flavor.
Did not get to do the side by side per the Lemon Hart. (I was at a bar, again)
I will get a bottle and do a taste test.
But I must say giving your money to Bacardi is bad!


 
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The Mayor Of Exotica
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Joined: Oct 09, 2005
Posts: 392
From: Boston
Posted: 2007-06-20 08:04 am   Permalink

Who on here can find Lemon Heart on a regular basis? I have yet to find it in Boston, but will see if I can find Bacardi Select in the meantime. I would love to be able to A-B the two. Even El Dorado would be great to try, if I could ever find it.

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Scottes
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 18, 2007
Posts: 490
From: A Little North Of Boston
Posted: 2007-06-20 08:18 am   Permalink

Mayor,

Marty's in Brookline had a slew of the 80-proof last month. 20+ bottles. I grabbed their last 151 though - I have no idea if they re-stocked it.

I also *think* that Martignetti's on Soldier's Field Road had it.

Joyal's in Warwicke RI has it too. They list it in stock and I saw it there a couple weeks ago.
http://www.oxfordwineroom.com/wineonline/ri_joyals/winetype.asp?winetype=85&B1=Go

Where are you exactly, in relation to Boston? North, south, west? (East??) I rarely make it down south, but I travel around and visit liquor stores north and west.


I see it often enough. I'm pretty sure I'll be making one of my Rum Runs in Connecticut on Saturday - looking for some agricole and a couple spcific rums (El Dorado being one of them). I'll try to make a note of grabbing you a bottle until you let me know otherwise. And if I grab it and you don't need it then I'm sure I'll find a way to dispose of it. Hell, Bargoyle will take it I'm sure.



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