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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Music Playing copyrighted music in Trader Vic's
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Playing copyrighted music in Trader Vic's
Tiki Bill
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 112
From: Holiday Florida
Posted: 2007-08-21 07:41 am   Permalink

Juke boxes are exempt because you put your dollar in to hear some music, the owner of the jukebox then pays a percentage of the take to ASCAP or BMI. That leaves the club out of it. You could use an I pod, but you would have to rig a bill acceptor to it. My good friend Rob Parissi (who wrote "Play That Funky Music White Boy") even gets paid for ringtones of that song by the cell companys. As I make my living writing and licenseing music, I can understand the arguement on both sides. While I do want to be paid for the use of my music, there is a point where you can be too anal about it. It's not so much the artist's fault, it's the publishers and owners of old music catalogs they bought when the songs were about to go public domain (i.e. Michael Jackson and the Beatles). I expect to be paid for use of my music on a TV show or the like, but I wouldn't freak out if a bar was playing my CD. That's just nitpicky. Now, if they were using my music as part of the floor show folks paid to see, then pay up mofo!

Tiki Bill.

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[ This Message was edited by: Tiki Bill 2007-08-21 07:44 ]


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2007-08-21 5:53 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2007-08-21 07:31, Bongo Bungalow wrote:
"...the real issue remains that they have to recognize the fact that music is part of the atmosphere they are trying to create..."

I agree, Kenike. Costs have nothing to do with Trader Vic's choice in music. If they are not playing exotica, it's because they don't want to.

BB



That's the truth of it. Every restaraunt plays music. I am also an ASCAP member and have been for years, by the way. But the bottom line is what some other poster said "music that puts you to sleep". This is what is really going on, you dig?

PS, I love music that puts you to sleep. It is 100% what my band plays and I am damn proud of it. Done the rock thing already and have nothing but hearing loss to show for it.

The simple fact is that if the young trendy "in" crowd liked tiki music, then that is what they would be playing. They prefer Buffet, coldplay, the fray and beyonce.

I am sure every single tiki bar from Bali-hai to the maikai has heard "Play something that rocks, and turn this sleepy shit off" one too many times.

What can a tiki do about it??


 
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sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2007-08-21 6:38 pm   Permalink

I posted this earlier :

" Why couldn't they become a member at 365.com for $ 70 a year and play Vegas Vic's Tiki Lounge commercial free 24 hours a day ? "

365.com pays ASCAP and BMI . Members pay $ 70 for internet radio to 365 . Why couldn't TV use Vegas Vics ? Could someone please explain ?


 
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Kenike
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 1204
From: McKinney, TX
Posted: 2007-08-21 7:05 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2007-08-21 18:38, sushiman wrote:
I posted this earlier :

" Why couldn't they become a member at 365.com for $ 70 a year and play Vegas Vic's Tiki Lounge commercial free 24 hours a day ? "

365.com pays ASCAP and BMI . Members pay $ 70 for internet radio to 365 . Why couldn't TV use Vegas Vics ? Could someone please explain ?




One reason is Vegas Vic's plays some of the Exotica that Trader Vic's doesn't want...that's what they call "the stuff that puts you to sleep." Personally I love it, but they want more "upbeat" Exotica...Also getting them to figure out how to hook up internet radio to their sound system would be like trying to get them to jump through a whole other hoop. I will mention it though, next time I talk to the big kahunas.
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Mr. NoNaMe
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Joined: May 10, 2006
Posts: 1907
Posted: 2007-08-22 2:10 pm   Permalink

Quote:

It's not so much the artist's fault, it's the publishers and owners of old music catalogs they bought when the songs were about to go public domain (i.e. Michael Jackson and the Beatles).
Tiki Bill.




Bill, it is funny that you mention Michael Jackson. I beleive he owns the rights to "Happy Birthday." So, any restaurant that sings it's guest "Happy Birthday" does have to pay for it.
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sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2007-08-22 5:30 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2007-08-21 19:05, Kenike wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-08-21 18:38, sushiman wrote:
I posted this earlier :

" Why couldn't they become a member at 365.com for $ 70 a year and play Vegas Vic's Tiki Lounge commercial free 24 hours a day ? "

365.com pays ASCAP and BMI . Members pay $ 70 for internet radio to 365 . Why couldn't TV use Vegas Vics ? Could someone please explain ?




One reason is Vegas Vic's plays some of the Exotica that Trader Vic's doesn't want...that's what they call "the stuff that puts you to sleep." Personally I love it, but they want more "upbeat" Exotica...Also getting them to figure out how to hook up internet radio to their sound system would be like trying to get them to jump through a whole other hoop. I will mention it though, next time I talk to the big kahunas.




You would think that the music played on Vegas Vics would be a perfect mood & atmosphere maker for just about anybody . I mean , if this music was played at a biker bar I could understand ...


 
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Kenike
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 1204
From: McKinney, TX
Posted: 2007-08-22 5:46 pm   Permalink

Quote:
You would think that the music played on Vegas Vics would be a perfect mood & atmosphere maker for just about anybody . I mean , if this music was played at a biker bar I could understand ...



Yes, you would think. Unfortunately, exotica is not a popular genre. Vegas Vic's would be PERFECT for Trader Vic's, but we have to think of the other 99% of the population who still don't get it. If it was up to me, it would be Exotica all the way, old and new. In the Dallas area, it would only add to the uniqueness of the restaurant. But the powers-that-be are too afraid it would chase more people away than it would attract. It's the typical mentality of "let's blend in rather than stand out."
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sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2007-08-22 7:16 pm   Permalink

People are strange . Anybody who wants to go to Trader Vics for a meal and some exotic drinks and listen to music they can hear anywhere , anytime at home , in their autos , or in elevators , is , well , beyond redemption in my book . We here are excluded of course as we DO listen to this music at home and in our cars ! ; )

[ This Message was edited by: sushiman 2007-08-22 19:17 ]


 
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tikibars
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 2022
From: Aku Hall, Chicago
Posted: 2007-08-22 7:55 pm   Permalink

Both of Tiki Bill's posts are clear and accurate from my perspective.

I have to take issue with this sentence from Gigantalope (nothing personal):
"It's great that they represent Artists, however the truth is, they really represent themselves, and little of the money gets past them. "

This is just false.

ASCAP and BMI are not-for-profit organizations that only deduct operating costs. Their job is to collect cash for musicians. If they were not passing the lion's share of their collected money on to the music makers, then they wouldn't have the tens of thousands of members that they do.
In Europe there is a third organization called SESAC. Same deal.

The deal with Trader Vic's is this: They pay a license every year to ASCAP and BMI and then they can basically play whatever the hell they want to. This is how virtually all bars and restaurants are run. If some one 'got in trouble' (as an early post on this thread said) for playing Exotica or other music, then it was in trouble from the management (who might not have wanted that usic played), and not from ASCAP.


 
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Gigantalope
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 01, 2004
Posts: 913
From: Shinola, California
Posted: 2007-08-23 12:27 am   Permalink

Tikibars, I see your point, and would agree that they enforce what's "Fair" however having been in court almost every day for the past 15 years,as well as having been involved with them as a business owner directly it's been my experience and more my observations of them that their tactics are close to extortion. (Complete with the unveiled threat involving business' that they "Closed Down")

As I mentioned, I was fortunate enough to have people to deal with legal issues, but most small business' don't have that luxury.

Their staff of clerks and attys who a business has no contract with bill the business quarterly based on an estimate of media they be live is used for the entertainment of patrons whom they don't even know were in the facility.

It's certainly the direction of the future.



 
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Surfer
Tiki Centralite

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 28
Posted: 2007-08-24 07:19 am   Permalink

I just happen to be in the music business, and most of the above is true ASCAP / BMI are ruthless once they find out about you, which is the hard part for them, in the old days there actually were the ASCAP police. They would pay informants ect. Music in commercial venue is way to prolific now. At the end of the day, the whole thing should actually be looked at as protection of the artist rights, and a paycheck for the musician. I represent a new product that unlike "Muzak" or "DMX" does not have a predictable 6 hour rotation. My product is like an Ipod on steroids. It allows you to create custom programs, and for a monthly fee, can tap into an unlimited library of music. Because I am a dealer, of course I have to demo this product, and my current computer has loaded about 39 hours of seamless Hawaiian, 12 hours of lounge / exotica and 8 hours of instrumental surf. I can create a playlist combining any of the above. My home bar and pool sound better than most restaurants or themed hotels, except for the ones that I have sold music to. If anyone is interested, I can make anyplace sing.

 
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Swanky
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 4965
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
Posted: 2007-08-24 08:26 am   Permalink

The whole "got in trouble with ASCAP" as tikibars says, is crap.

Trader Vic's Atlanta plays CDs mixed by local DJs. They play that stuff all the time and it is exactly the sort of music they should be playing. "I Belli di Waikiki" and other stuff. The Mai Kai plays the mix CDs I made for them. They can play whatever they want as long as they pay the piper, which they do.

It a sham excuse.
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Kenike
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 1204
From: McKinney, TX
Posted: 2007-08-24 3:34 pm   Permalink

I agree. The folks working in the restaurant really don't know much about what they're allowed to play.Somebody said something to somebody, then they told two friends, etc. By the time it gets to me there's a lot more to the story I'm not getting.

Based on the comments on this thread, I sent an email to the top kahuna in Dallas and quoted a lot of the facts mentioned here, mainly that all restaurants pay fees as a standard practice, so why do we have to hear "Funky Town." I received this reply:

Thanks for your note, but don't be alarmed-it's only very temporary!!

We are compiling some other music as we speak, I am coordinating with Robert Davies on some ideas for the all of us.

Disco Duck is not allowed in the restaurant unless it's being shredded tableside!!!!


(Robert Davies is President and Chief Executive Officer of Trader Vic's)

So I'm hoping this is good news. I'll post an update when I start hearing the "other" music. Whatever it is I'm sure it'll will be better (I hope).

Thanks for everyones input...I was really worried I was going to have to give this place up!
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2007-08-25 08:57 am   Permalink

yeah, well, ,maybe that's what it takes. People writing letters to managers that go something like this:

"I was in your Tiki bar the other night. The food was great, the drinks even better, and the service was excellent. However, you were playing Slipknot,Korn and Limp Bizkit over the PA system at a high volume. When I decided to choose a Tiki bar for my evening, I was looking for ambience and atmosphere, and your establishment had it all, except the music. Unless you start playing some appropriate music, me and my friends will not be back. I thank you in advance for your attention to this matter."


 
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The Mayor Of Exotica
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Oct 09, 2005
Posts: 392
From: Boston
Posted: 2007-08-27 07:21 am   Permalink

My experience with music and business is that the people in charge are in that position because of what they know, which is business. Very often, they know little or nothing about music, mood, or taste. I am continually amazed at the rising level of simple ignorance about music on a broad scale.

Information is the best remedy to this, so when you speak up, go to the top of the food chain, whoever is REALLY in charge, and speak or write with authority and conviction, with the intention to enlighten, not to express frustration or disdain at someone else's choice of music. People respond much more favorably to suggestion than to venting. Some people are just not open to having their decisions questioned, which is really sad; they close themselves off to a lot of valuable information.

I consider it a mission, to bring better music to people, to help them cultivate better listening diets. Very often they are not aware of the distinctions between good music and crap, music that conveys something positive, and music that does not, music by musicians, and sequenced pap, music that is appropriate to the surroundings (Tiki), and everything else. Once they are introduced to these distinctions, even most management types will see the light and go with it.

You are always within your rights to speak up about the music in a public place; it only helps our cause if you do. Don't be disappointed if it takes a while to get results. Just encourage your friends to do the same!



 
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