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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Music Tipsy - April 3rd 2008 - San Francisco
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Tipsy - April 3rd 2008 - San Francisco
Tiki Bill
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 112
From: Holiday Florida
Posted: 2008-03-23 09:02 am   Permalink

I think Tipsy is GREAT! But I just listened to "space Golf" again just to be sure, and its all made from snippets of other peoples stuff. I use this technique myself when doing electronica and hip hop. I own and operate a recording studio here in Florida, and I know sample snippet's when I hear them. I use them too! But I put it in the electronica genre where it belongs. I'm not saying it's bad, but it is what it is. Finding all those loops and arranging them in a coherent manner is VERY difficult, and an art form in itself. Space Golf probably took weeks to make. So please don't be offended when I say they didn't "play" the actual instruments. That doesn't make the members of Tipsy any less musically talented than anyone else, they just did it differently than us "old school" exotica composers. In fact , you have to be a GREAT arranger with a vast knowledge of music to do some of the things I've heard from modern DJ's. But those ARE samples being used in the Tipsy stuff. And while I really like what I've heard, I still must class it as electronica. THIS ISN'T A BAD THING! And while the exotica crowd may love it for it's crossover ability, it's not exotica. As a producer, I write music in almost every genre there is (I do allot of TV and film work), so I know how to play instruments but, for certian styles of music, I go straight for the sampler and the old vinyl collection. but I had to side with Tikiaki that the type of sampling being done by Tipsy, puts them more in the electronica genre. So it can "ruffle the feathers" on us old school composers, who bust ass trying to find players, to call Tipsy exotica. So let's all stop freakin out, sip on a mai-tai or two, and everyone check out Tipsy, a killer electronica band with an exotica twist.
My rating of Tipsy, from what I heard on the website, on a scale of 1 to 10:

arangements: 9.5
recording quality: 9.8
packageing: 8.5
production: 9.0

Nuff said, lets get drunk!

Tiki Bill.


 
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tikiyaki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2710
From: The Exotic Port of REDONDO BEACH, CA
Posted: 2008-03-23 09:12 am   Permalink


Listening to musical samples on iTunes, definitely no Martin Denny song-lifts. Their method seems to be more of the electronica cut and paste, sound collage variety...ie: lots of samples...sounds like there are loops in there for sure. They just do it in a very electronic way, which I would imagine would require alot of backing tracks or loops to play live.

Very cool and Esquivellian (there's a word!) - I DO like what they do, and yea, it would take an army of thousands to reproduce that stuff onstage. I guess that's why Esquivel didn't perform live( ? )

I guess I just prefer a more organic approach, but that's just me. But the "They have BEEN KNOWN to use live musicians onstage" thing is what makes me say my original statement....that I thought people actually cared that a band was playing to a bunch of pre-recorded tracks.

I guess not ?

Either way, I think what Tipsy is doing is cool musically, I just think I'd want to see it live. I'd rather go watch a band playing instruments, I guess because you know they could make a mistake, and when they don't it's more impressive. That's my musician side speaking.

Definitely not dissing TIPSY, but they are an electronica group doing lounge-style electronica, not a lounge group using electronics to make their life easier onstage. That may seem like splitting hairs, but there is a difference.

So, Tiki Bill, will I be meeting you at Hukilau this year ?






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tikiyaki
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Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2710
From: The Exotic Port of REDONDO BEACH, CA
Posted: 2008-03-23 09:16 am   Permalink

Bill I just read your post after I posted my above post. Looks like were posting at the same time

You said it perfectly, and I agree with your sentiments exactly.

And yes, TIPSY is very good stuff...the arrangement of the different samples in a very musical way. Very cool.




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Tiki Bill
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 112
From: Holiday Florida
Posted: 2008-03-23 09:29 am   Permalink

Hell YEAH I'll be at Hukilau! Maybe I'll even have my CD done. Having trouble getting good players who understand the genre (no offense to Tipsy here, I still think they rock!) and working schedules around to fit. If nothing else, at least an E.P. with what's done so far.

Tiki Bill.


 
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Tiki Bill
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 112
From: Holiday Florida
Posted: 2008-03-23 09:46 am   Permalink

Esquivel was NUTS! He used to book two studios side by side, put half the orchestra in one and half in the other, then wire the controll rooms together! The guy just loved to experiment with the newly discovered "stereo", and used cart machines as cueable playback of wierd sound fx, like a primitive "Mellotron", an analog tape predisescor to the sampler. He also seems to like tweaking the send to the old "plate" verb chamber up and down durring mix sessions. He was one wacky composer / producer. A must listen for anyone into electronica music to hear some of it's "roots". I think even he could appriciate Tipsy.

Tiki Bill.
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Mr. Ho
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Joined: Oct 09, 2005
Posts: 433
From: Boston, MA
Posted: 2008-03-23 10:22 am   Permalink

My thoughts?

I personally don't like the electronica thing making its way into the Exotica area - I think it is one of the few genres relatively untouched and it would be nice if it could stay that way. I understand all the logistical issues present with it. That said, we added a little 808 bass ontop the real kick drum to one track on the latest WAITIKI record (The reggae-tiki-ton part of Choko Chuni-chu) but that was it.

However, I think as long as the performers are clear about what their project is and people don't show up at a show expecting to see a band and instead see a dj or musician playing loops at them , then it's fine. Plenty of people like to attend DJs and electronica events . Hopefully artists advertise clearly they are doing that so people can decide for themselves - in this case, it seems clear that not everyone understands exactly what this group in SF does (I havent looked into their stuff myself).

As a percussionist I can say that drum machines have no soul - you cannot reproduce the feel of real musicians with electronics (not that you always want to but in exotica...). And live music vs. recorded - live music always has environment as a factor - the moods of the players, the room, the audience vibe, the world around you - it all affects what happens esp if there is improvisation in the music (e.g. jazz roots).

And computers can't mix a cocktail for you after the set ends - nor can they enjoy it with a fan

Mr. Ho


 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3085
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-03-23 10:50 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-03-23 09:02, Tiki Bill wrote:
I think Tipsy is GREAT! But I just listened to "space Golf" again just to be sure, and its all made from snippets of other peoples stuff. ...




Just to be clear about this, as mentioned earlier:

"...due to complications on getting permission for the samples, Tipsy went into the studio and recreated the sounds of all the samples needed."

If you look at the liner notes on the Tipsy cd "Uh-Oh", the list of musicians utilyzed in the studio is rather long. They did not sample other peoples recordings. They recreated the snippets themselves along with the musicians they brought into the studio. Additional instrumentation is added on top of this. This is hardly a "DJ" band. Nor are they Exotica. More like Post Lounge.



(edited to add photo and modify some text.)



[ This Message was edited by: Hakalugi 2008-03-30 12:40 ]


 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3085
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-02 10:05 am   Permalink



BUMP!

If you're in driving range of this show, you don't want to miss it.

Anybody that goes to see them, please come back here and tell us all about it.









 
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tikiyaki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2710
From: The Exotic Port of REDONDO BEACH, CA
Posted: 2008-04-02 11:45 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-03-23 10:50, Hakalugi wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-23 09:02, Tiki Bill wrote:
I think Tipsy is GREAT! But I just listened to "space Golf" again just to be sure, and its all made from snippets of other peoples stuff. ...




Just to be clear about this, as mentioned earlier:

"...due to complications on getting permission for the samples, Tipsy went into the studio and recreated the sounds of all the samples needed."

If you look at the liner notes on the Tipsy cd "Uh-Oh", the list of musicians utilyzed in the studio is rather long. They did not sample other peoples recordings. They recreated the snippets themselves along with the musicians they brought into the studio. Additional instrumentation is added on top of this. This is hardly a "DJ" band. Nor are they Exotica. More like Post Lounge.



(edited to add photo and modify some text.)



[ This Message was edited by: Hakalugi 2008-03-30 12:40 ]



Not to further open up this can of worms, but what exactly were these musicians "re-creating" on this CD ? Was it snippets of other people's music or did they compose the stuff themselves ?

Just wondering.



 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3085
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-02 12:12 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-04-02 11:45, tikiyaki wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-23 10:50, Hakalugi wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-23 09:02, Tiki Bill wrote:
I think Tipsy is GREAT! But I just listened to "space Golf" again just to be sure, and its all made from snippets of other peoples stuff. ...




Just to be clear about this, as mentioned earlier:

"...due to complications on getting permission for the samples, Tipsy went into the studio and recreated the sounds of all the samples needed."

If you look at the liner notes on the Tipsy cd "Uh-Oh", the list of musicians utilyzed in the studio is rather long. They did not sample other peoples recordings. They recreated the snippets themselves along with the musicians they brought into the studio. Additional instrumentation is added on top of this. This is hardly a "DJ" band. Nor are they Exotica. More like Post Lounge.



(edited to add photo and modify some text.)



[ This Message was edited by: Hakalugi 2008-03-30 12:40 ]



Not to further open up this can of worms, but what exactly were these musicians "re-creating" on this CD ? Was it snippets of other people's music or did they compose the stuff themselves ?

Just wondering.





Both! Instead of pulling samples from vinyl (or cd reissues) they recreated the snippets in the studio with actual instruments. These snippets were then used as or within a framework involving the recording of more live instruments performing stuff they composed. It's a hybrid.


 
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tikiyaki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2710
From: The Exotic Port of REDONDO BEACH, CA
Posted: 2008-04-02 12:55 pm   Permalink

Cool...thanx for clarifying.



 
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Jeff Central
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 23, 2002
Posts: 1602
From: Columbus, Ohio
Posted: 2008-04-02 1:51 pm   Permalink

I don't believe it for one bit. I have all of Tipsy CD's and there is NO WAY that they re-created all these samples.

You don't just recreate Les Baxter's 30-piece orchestra in a small studio to sound EXACTLY the same.

Nice try.

I love their music though!!!

Cheers and Mahalo,
Jeff


 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3085
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-02 2:11 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-04-02 13:51, Jeff Central wrote:
I don't believe it for one bit. I have all of Tipsy CD's and there is NO WAY that they re-created all these samples.

You don't just recreate Les Baxter's 30-piece orchestra in a small studio to sound EXACTLY the same.

Nice try.

I love their music though!!!

Cheers and Mahalo,
Jeff




Find the original Les Baxter snippet and the Tipsy re-enactment then do an A-B comparison and report back here. It'll be fun.


 
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tikiyaki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2710
From: The Exotic Port of REDONDO BEACH, CA
Posted: 2008-04-02 2:34 pm   Permalink

Well...
This does open the can of worms again, and poses a good question. Being that I'm not familiar with TIPSY'S material enough, and as familiar with Les Baxter's stuff as much as someone like Jeff Central, Jeff, can you give us any solid examples of a Baxter,Denny,Lyman or any other classic tune that TIPSY has lifted ?

I'd be curious to hear them side by side. Being a producer and composer, I think I'd be able to hear it.





 
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Tiki Bill
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 112
From: Holiday Florida
Posted: 2008-04-02 4:32 pm   Permalink

Sorry, but I have to agree with Jeff. I've seen the "we re-created the sound" excuse before from other bands, to get around the retarded laws about sampling. I've listened again, THEY USED OTHER PEOPLES PERFORMANCES, GET OVER IT! I'm not saying it's wrong, I love music made this way. Just take it for what it is and enjoy it. Don't make me hunt down a snippit they used for comparison! I've been recording/producing bands seinse 1984 and bought my first sampler in 1987, and have a "photographic memory" for musical recordings. I think 20 + years of experience gives me a right to call myself an "expert" in this field.
Can we call a truce on this thread now?

Tiki Bill.


 
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