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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Music Tipsy - April 3rd 2008 - San Francisco
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Tipsy - April 3rd 2008 - San Francisco
Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3055
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-02 4:54 pm   Permalink

I agree with you Tiki Bill. Who really cares if they sampled Les Baxter or recreated it. How they made it is really of little importance, it's the end result that counts!

Truce!


 
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Tiki Bill
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2007
Posts: 112
From: Holiday Florida
Posted: 2008-04-02 9:32 pm   Permalink

Hakalugi, please don't be offended. When I've had too many margaritas, my obvious lack of political correctness comes out, I apologize. I was actually fixin to get up on my soap box and DEFEND Tipsy and their use of the samples. Ahem, here goes. Sampling as an art form in popular music has roots in the experimentation of artists like Esquivel. The Beatles bought the first "Mellotron", made here in St. Pete Fla, an analog predecessor to the digital sampler that used an 8 second long strip of magnetic tape for each key on the keyboard (the flute on Strawberry Fields is a mellotron). In the 80's, the digital sampler opened up a whole new world for artists. I think that as long as your not snipping the entire chorus of a song (i.e. the battle between my friend Rob Parissi and Vanilla Ice over the use of the entire Play That Funky Music hook), there is nothing wrong, morally or artistically, about sampling a cool drum break or horn smear. Any artist who bitched about the use of a 2 second orchestra hit from their song being used in a totally different arrangement, making new of old so to speak, needs to have their head examined. We all know the rule, good artists borrow, great artists steal. The use of creative and clever sampling (i.e. Tipsy), is as legitimate an art form as collage, which is accepted as an art form by the national art society. Many artists find the people who buy music with sampling being used, have a new market to sell their music to, just because someone recognized a horn stab sampled from an old big band record their parents listened to, and now has a new appriciation for a vintage artist. That being said, I didn't mean to take the fun out of the thread, just drunkenly trying to make a point (we all know how well THAT can work!). I'll see if I can find a clip from some old Esquivel or Baxter tune we can check out, and post it.
Again Hakalugi, no hard feelings and a big drunken "I love you man!"

Tiki Bill.


 
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Tipsy McStagger
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Posts: 3520
From: HELL
Posted: 2008-04-02 9:42 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-03-22 20:00, Tiki Bill wrote:

"Exotica to me is a type of lounge music (played by real people, not computers) that takes you to a place in your mind where you can disconnect from the daily trudge of life, and escape to some exotic location where you can just forget the world exists, and chill out and sip rum laden drinks all day while lounging in a hammock. "



sounds more like you prefer to just tune out of life completely.......



"
Tipsy just dosn't put me in a hammock, they make me want to dance".



..as opposed to directly engaging life by getting up and dancing.....



Tiki Bill.






..this indirect lesson in zen has been unknowingly brought to you by tiki bill.....thanks bill!!! LOL





 
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Kahuna Kent
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 82
From: Woodland Hills, Ca
Posted: 2008-04-03 09:49 am   Permalink

I'm really anxious to see Tikiyaki live - and I fully expect the "sound" of the group to be different (more "organic" and "Live") than the music on the CD.

What's the point of "recreating" a studio sound in a live venue?

In the studio you can go back and tweak and layer stuff and finesse everything.

Live performance is "in the moment" and no 2 live performances are exactly the same -

It's 2 different things - and I like apples AND oranges!



 
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Jeff Central
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 23, 2002
Posts: 1591
From: Columbus, Ohio
Posted: 2008-04-03 10:15 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-04-02 16:54, Hakalugi wrote:
Who really cares if they sampled Les Baxter or recreated it. How they made it is really of little importance, it's the end result that counts!

Truce!



I agree with this statement to a point. If records are sampled they should at least give the artist credit. The Evolution Control Committee samples everything from every artist imaginable but he lists the credits from every sample he's ever lifted and from what album it comes from. This is proper sampling etiquiette. Heck, even Jean Jacques Perrey loves and encourages people to sample his music as long as they give him some credit.

I'll find the Les Baxter sample and report back. It's the rhythm background for a whole song and easily recognizable.

Cheers,
Jeff


 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3055
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-03 11:02 am   Permalink

Oh good. Truce off!

Anyway, the whole "Tipsy recreated the samples due to legal issues" is not a new thing and dates back eleven years. I'm pretty sure the story originates from the press kit disseminated with Trip Tease.

Here's another review indicating the "sample recreation" story:
http://www.splendidezine.com/reviews/apr-21-97/tipsy.html

So is it technically possible to go into a studio and reproduce the sound of a thirty piece orchestra? Sure, even if done one instrument at a time. Will it sound identical? Possibly, but most likely not. Could it sound very similar? Absolutely.

So is the back story true? Maybe... Maybe not...

Is it a good story? Hell yeah!

Innocent until proven guilty...

So let's try!

I would love to hear some A-B comparisons! As I said earlier, it'll be fun. In addition to the Les Baxter loop that Jeff will ID, if there are any other source loops that anybody here can identify, I'll do my best to track down the original. Then we could A B compare them.

You WILL have fun.


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Unga Bunga
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 06, 2003
Posts: 5820
From: CaliTikifornia
Posted: 2008-04-03 1:17 pm   Permalink

Hak,
Are you going?


 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3055
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-03 2:20 pm   Permalink

Hey Unga! Unfortunately I have to sit it out. If it was closer to home I wouldn't miss it.

Are you gonna make it to Tiki Oasis?


 
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Unga Bunga
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 06, 2003
Posts: 5820
From: CaliTikifornia
Posted: 2008-04-03 3:30 pm   Permalink

Still pending.
(Not if OnaTiki is going.)


 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3055
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-03 6:09 pm   Permalink

Oh yeah, I can totally understand. Now you got me thinkin' twice.

 
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TipsyDave
Member

Joined: Apr 07, 2008
Posts: 1
Posted: 2008-04-07 7:49 pm   Permalink

Just to set the record straight - in Tipsy we use real & toy instruments AND loops and turntables, live and in the studio.
We don't really consider ourselves an "exotica" group, that's only one big influence/source.


-dave
http://tipsy.org

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tikiyaki
Grand Member (7 years)  

Joined: May 18, 2004
Posts: 2708
From: The Exotic Port of REDONDO BEACH, CA
Posted: 2008-04-07 8:38 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-04-03 09:49, Kahuna Kent wrote:
I'm really anxious to see Tikiyaki live - and I fully expect the "sound" of the group to be different (more "organic" and "Live") than the music on the CD.

What's the point of "recreating" a studio sound in a live venue?

In the studio you can go back and tweak and layer stuff and finesse everything.

Live performance is "in the moment" and no 2 live performances are exactly the same -

It's 2 different things - and I like apples AND oranges!





We try really hard to recreate the sound, at the same time we take it in different directions, extend the arrangements, take solos, and embellish on what's already there.

That being said, to really recreate the CD would require alot more people, especially in the percussion dept...but our percussion guy is a trip because he covers like 3 parts at one time...playing the shaker and woodblocks with his feet, and other stuff with his hands...It's pretty amazing.....

We do the best we can with the other stuff.

We dont play to Loops or tracks but we do use one of the computer programs I used on the CD for the keyboard sounds to make accessing the sounds easier, and to use the same sounds as we have on the CD. That, and for the jungle sounds.

It's been a hell of a challenge just playing the stuff, due to it's many layers, and also due to the fact that I've been a rock player my whole life, and playing low volume with these different instrumentations and dynamics is ALOT different that playing a les paul through a Marshall in a 4 piece rock band.

So, the live experience will be different than the CD, but in the same ballpark.





[ This Message was edited by: tikiyaki 2008-04-07 20:40 ]


 
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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3055
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-04-07 9:29 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-04-07 19:49, TipsyDave wrote:
Just to set the record straight - in Tipsy we use real & toy instruments AND loops and turntables, live and in the studio.
We don't really consider ourselves an "exotica" group, that's only one big influence/source.


-dave
http://tipsy.org





Well there. That settles it!

Meanwhile, I still want some names as to some source snippets. Jeff?

And welcome to TC TipsyDave!



 
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hala bullhiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 26, 2002
Posts: 570
From: champaign,illinois
Posted: 2008-04-08 8:35 pm   Permalink

can someone who went post a review of the show?hala

 
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Jeff Central
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 23, 2002
Posts: 1591
From: Columbus, Ohio
Posted: 2008-04-10 12:32 pm   Permalink

Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I am sttill getting over a very nasty flu bug.

Here are some general findings I have made..................

From the Tipsy album Trip Tease.....

Track# 7 "Liquordelic" has two samples of Jean Jacques Perrey. The first one is Perrey's "Cat in the Night" from Moog Indigo and the second is "Island in Space" from the album The Amazing Electronic Pop Sound of Jean Jaques Perrey. I think I hear an Esquivel sample in here as well.

Track#8 "Cinnabar" has the same rhythm track as Les Baxter's "Acapulco" from The Sacred Idol LP. It sounds pretty manipulated though with some added harmonics but it is still recognizable. I'm not sure where the steel guitar came from but it sounds great!

Tipsy Rocks!!

Oh, and welcome Dave!!!

Cheers and Mahalo,
Jeff


 
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