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MooneyTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 578
From: Jensen Beach,fla
Posted: 2008-07-21 06:38 am   Permalink

If you all know or some don't know but a businessman in ohio called little buddah (larry collins) was at the Huklau this june with some COPIES of Paipo's and many other's art work and selling them as originals!NOT A NICE THING TO DO!
He apperintly has not responded to many peoples Emails which is what most people do when they know they are wrong and he is planning to be at Oaisis comming up.I have an idea and it is my own doing. I don't like the taste this kind of thing leaves in my mouth for all my friends here at Tiki Central so.........
HERE'S THE DEAL:
I have spoke to Otto and he is Cool with it about buying out the space that and (little buddah...larry collins) has in order to STOP him from vending at this event and possibly knocking off others art and keeping these Great events PURE Art from the Artists, but I need your help! I do not have the funds to pay the entire amount myself (290.00) but I am willing to put 50.00 and if everyone else puts up 5.00 or 10.00 we can make this happen. Otto told me he has an Paypal acct at
Otto@tikinews.com. I believe that's the acct if not I will find out real quick.
Remember This kind of ROTTEN thing could happen to any one of Us! send me a responce on this page and to those who moniter this on this site PLEASE let this run an not lock it up to PROTECT the integrity for all of us Mahalo. Aloha your friend, Jimmy Mooney


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AlohaStation
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 2148
From: So FL
Posted: 2008-07-21 10:57 am   Permalink

removed

[ This Message was edited by: AlohaStation 2008-07-21 17:47 ]


 
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Monkeyman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 04, 2003
Posts: 2368
From: Vista, CA
Posted: 2008-07-21 11:51 am   Permalink

why can't otto just make his vending space available to another vendor? Im sure that there are other vendors waiting

then the space is filled by someone who will still benefit from it and otto still gets paid...

seems a lot easier than trying to pool funds and intentionally spite someone.



 
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JenTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 1836
From: An island in the bay
Posted: 2008-07-21 12:05 pm   Permalink

I believe Otto has already made his position clear on the original thread about the knock-offs. What Mooney is proposing appears to contradict what Otto posted.

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MooneyTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 578
From: Jensen Beach,fla
Posted: 2008-07-21 12:54 pm   Permalink

OK OK OK, Let me straighten this out before it crashes in flames. I spoke to Otto and he is going to check on (little Buddah's goods and if they seem to be knock off's he will have them removed) However when I sent a P/M to Otto he staited that he had a contract with little Buddah but If where to do what I was to do and get other Artists together(because I can't afford to pay it all myself)that we would essentialy rent the space from Otto to remove (little Buddah) from the Oaisis Booth (and in essence sending a message to others that people will be looking very hard at some Sketchy knockoffs as it appears to have happeded) thus PROTECTING Artists at least in the Tiki aspect from showing up and selling COPIES of someone elses art! Hey listen, I don't know if it will stop it ,but at least it can be a start so that so many Very Talented Artists that post here will feel a bit better, and I'm in NO WAY trying to step on anyone's toes (especialy Ottos ), but I really just don't like the TASTE of Theft at the cost or pain of another. I've always taken the side of the unjust and against the bully all my life, so when I see this happening I think something has to happen, but hey if you all don't want me to at least TRY to do something then NO problem I will back off. However if your ART gets Ripped off I know you don't want to fell the way that Paipo and the others have.
Aloha station, Tom I looked back on the Hukilau photo's and only found one picture of you question and it's on page 5 with Tiki Tony's friend and look to the backround on the table (little buddaha's table) I don't know if it's enough for you but it's pretty darn close to the issue.
Also my friends, Please don't bother Otto about this situation he has his hands full now and I want no Problems for him. I just thought we could make a stand about something if you don't want to take a stand and protect yourself and other artists I do respect your decision but hey (I'm just a Bullheaded Firefighter who goes ahead to help others when they can't)that's just my nature,Aloha to all, your friend, Jimmy Mooney


 
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TikiTres
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 263
From: Forney, TX
Posted: 2008-07-21 1:55 pm   Permalink

There is another possible approach that may work even better- let the guy show up, set up his table and receive a public grilling from everyone that knows what he's up to. I'm sure he'll probably still make a few sales to people that don't know what's going on, but if enough people give him grief for what he's doing then he'll soon figure out that this isn't a problem he can just ignore and hope it goes away.

 
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Paipo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 1886
From: Aotearoa / NZ
Posted: 2008-07-21 2:20 pm   Permalink

I better chime in here...

1st thing - I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever who was selling those knockoffs. At least 3 different people from TC PMed me to say it was City Buddha's table in the photos Ben posted, including Ben, who also bought a bone carving from the guy. I wouldn't have posted or emailed the guy without confirmation from multiple sources. Larry Collins/City Buddha did respond to my emails, and did not deny selling the carvings in question, but passed all blame for producing them onto the carver. He was pretty unhelpful in terms ceasing sales of them, and certainly not apologetic in any way. What people told me he said to them about the work he was selling and how it is sourced, on top of the fact he contacted me almost 2 years ago asking to use my work but wasn't prepared to pay for my designs, (including the niku which he subsequently sold copies of) leads me to personally believe he is far from innocent in this. Others can draw what conclusions they may - but it is an undisputed fact he was selling a table full of ripped-off designs from NZ carvers (5 in total - so far). Chances are he still has plenty left to sell, and that there are likely many more copied designs yet to be identified.
The fact is people who sell imported carvings have a responsibility to ensure they are not infringing, something guys like Larry and Eyeball Kicks in Wellington seem to think isn't important. The fact both these guys were well familiar with my work before selling copies of it makes the whole "blame the carver" line pretty hard to swallow....

2nd thing - I really don't want anyone to put themselves out over this, either financially or by creating any legal trouble for Otto. He has been great to deal with, is obviously taking this very seriously and as far as I know is legally contracted to supply this guy with a vending table at Oasis. Likewise the organisers at HRHH and Hukilau are also aware of what is going on now.
Mooney, I am very appreciative of you taking a stand on this and the artists (actually, everyone on TC) have really banded together over this. All I want is awareness of what is going on, so people can make an informed purchasing decision at the events. It basically comes down to buying work from artist-vendors and not importers using 3rd world artists and knockoffs to leech off the scene ( I don't have a problem with imported carvings if they are licensed or sourced correctly - Smokin Tikis and C'Al do this I think). If no-one buys this junk they won't vend anymore - simple!
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Tamapoutini
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 1530
From: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Posted: 2008-07-21 2:40 pm   Permalink

Mooney - Generous idea but where does it end? We'd have to follow Larry around & buy him out from every subsequent event he shows up at..

Better to let him spend his money, educate all involved (as Paipo has initiated) & then let him take whats coming to him. Being confronted directly at these events is what will stop him.

I seriously doubt whether he will bring any of the pieces that have been identified to date (surely he's seen the 'Buyer Beware' thread by now??), but would pose a friendly warning to TCers: Only hassle the guy if you know for sure that he is selling designs that you can identify as copied. No good muck-raking if he has left the relevant pieces at home - leaving them at home is what we want!



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JenTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 16, 2006
Posts: 1836
From: An island in the bay
Posted: 2008-07-21 3:10 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-07-21 13:55, TikiTres wrote:
There is another possible approach that may work even better- let the guy show up, set up his table and receive a public grilling from everyone that knows what he's up to. I'm sure he'll probably still make a few sales to people that don't know what's going on, but if enough people give him grief for what he's doing then he'll soon figure out that this isn't a problem he can just ignore and hope it goes away.



This is my plan as well. I have personally spoken to Otto, face-to-face, about doing this, and he is fine with it. If those of us in attendance can keep City Buddha from selling enough to cover his costs to vend (including vending fee, hotel room, airfare or gasoline), by boycotting him, and informing any potential customers of his practices, then we've won. Also, if he does show up with any of the pieces that have already been identified as unauthorized copies, Otto will shut him down, as his contract gives him the right to.

I don't think anyone here is ignoring the problem and certainly not condoning it. As the proud owner of two of Paipo's original pendants, and several of his resin copies, I am outraged that Larry Collins stole from Paipo, and the other artists he has copied. There are actions we can take without causing Otto, or any of the other event coordinators, any legal problems. Since Otto is contractually bound to provide a vending space for City Buddha, trying to buy out the space won't work, but making it difficult for him to make any sales will hit him where he lives. I say let the guy dig his own grave and see just how powerful we can be when one of our own is crossed. Let me be clear that I am not suggesting that anyone use physical force of any kind. I am only suggesting that there be a steady gathering of like-minded individuals in front of his booth, letting shoppers know about City Buddha's lack of business ethics. If he has been reading any of the posts about this subject, and has any dignity left, he would be smart to not even show up, in which case, Otto still gets to keep the vending fee City Buddha has already paid, and everybody wins.

--I see that Tama has posted in the time that I've been writing this post, so in response to this:
Quote:

a friendly warning to TCers: Only hassle the guy if you know for sure that he is selling designs that you can identify as copied. No good muck-raking if he has left the relevant pieces at home - leaving them at home is what we want!


We know he has already tried to sell unauthorized copies at Hukilau (and may have succeeded). Whether or not he's stupid enough to bring those with him to Oasis is irrelevant from my point of view. City Buddha needs to experience a little Karma for what he has already done.


 
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MooneyTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 28, 2005
Posts: 578
From: Jensen Beach,fla
Posted: 2008-07-21 5:13 pm   Permalink

Aloha to all!!!
You all are right with what you want to do about this situation. I'm sorry if what I meant to do came out wrong, but I was just trying to do something to help. Best always to you all , Aloha your friend, Mooney


 
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hewey
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 14, 2004
Posts: 4278
From: Sydney, Australia
Posted: 2008-07-21 5:57 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-07-21 17:13, MooneyTiki wrote:
Aloha to all!!!
You all are right with what you want to do about this situation. I'm sorry if what I meant to do came out wrong, but I was just trying to do something to help. Best always to you all , Aloha your friend, Mooney



We know your heart was in the right place mate And good on ya for being prepared to dig into your own pocket too
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www.kustomkultureaustralia.com

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Paipo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 1886
From: Aotearoa / NZ
Posted: 2008-07-21 6:31 pm   Permalink

Well said hewey - it's a totally amazing thing to offer, but I'm just not comfortable with you guys paying out of your own pockets because of someone else's dodgy dealings. Let's just sit back and see what happens at Oasis - and Mooney, I sincerely hope I will be able to stop by at your vending table someday and buy one of your great carvings.
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cheekytiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 09, 2004
Posts: 1091
From: The Haole Hut, London, UK
Posted: 2008-07-22 01:25 am   Permalink

As well as giving this guy a public grilling and definately not buying anything, anybody that did buy a copy at Hukilau/or other time should tike the copied item back to him and ask for a refund
If he is already hit in the pocket by people not buying his goods, having to shell out more in refunds will be the staw thta breaks the camels back.
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http://cheekytikiuk.blogspot.com/


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