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Tools Stone carvers use |
surfintiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 1566
From: S. Chatham, MA
|  Posted: 2008-08-03 5:28 pm Permalink
Hmmmmmm. ok, thats nuts.
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surfintiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 1566
From: S. Chatham, MA
| Posted: 2008-08-10 08:05 am Permalink
OK stoners, I know you're gonna cringe!
Finally got my cheapo burrs to get me started. (they work great on my wood stuff!)
It's the budget mans thread!
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sar1
Tiki Centralite
Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 22
From: Ohio, USA
| Posted: 2008-08-10 10:36 am Permalink
Hey, they are not all that bad, I have the set with the smaller burrs. The balls, wheels, and inverted cones should have no wobble at all. It is the smaller needle point cones that may or may not have the problems but hey good burrs can cost as much per burr as you paid for the whole set. Have fun!
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pdrake
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jan 13, 2006
Posts: 1764
From: las vegas
| Posted: 2008-08-10 10:54 am Permalink
BAM!
GET THIS!
you'll need another tool, an air compressor. you probably can't use those burrs unless you trim down the shafts. once you start getting into 50,000rpms you can spin out a burr real fast. a very small wobble will send the burr flying across the room like a bullet. it will probably happen to you anyway, but it's a good learning experience. it happened to me more than once.
the handpiece is about the size of a sharpie and there is no torque since there is no shaft, just a hose.
i also have one of these:
if you look real close you can see it 1/3HP. the handpiece is about and inch in diameter. holding that and the torque the the flex shaft has makes my hand cramp up pretty quick.
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Tamapoutini
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Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 1529
From: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
| Posted: 2008-08-10 2:30 pm Permalink
Youre on your way SurfinT! Why would we cringe? I bought a very similar pack when first starting out. (still got half of them - personal preference may see you abandon many of the shapes, there is no right or wrong tool to use..) For example, many/most stone carvers swear by the thin 'disc-cutter' burrs you have there, whilst I almost never use them, preferring the 'needle' or 'bullet'-type shapes.
Its interesting you say theyre working well on wood because Ive always found they tend to clog up very quickly with wood and/or bone. I have found them ideal for shell however, and working the shell under water massively decreases the risk of inhaling the dangerous dust.
Perry, youve got both extremes there; supersmooth air power & highly torquey 1/3hp cable-drive. Most of the commercial carvers here use an air-powered handpiece & also run larger angle-grinder type airtools (for very large work, sculpts, bowls etc) from the compressor. Personally I find these handpieces too fast/scary and prefer the wide 'useable' speedrange of a micromotor; air is useless at low revs while the m.motor can be used as low as 1,000rpm. All have their pros and cons though.
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JohnnyP
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Joined: Nov 23, 2005
Posts: 1689
From: Attica, MI
| Posted: 2008-08-10 3:15 pm Permalink
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On 2008-08-10 14:30, Tamapoutini wrote:
Its interesting you say theyre working well on wood because Ive always found they tend to clog up very quickly with wood and/or bone.
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I've found these are great for wood and bone if you use them at fairly slow speeds. They tend to burn the wood if used at high speeds, but at low speeds they can even be used on resinous woods such as pine.
TTT-- If you don't use the "disc" type cutters how do you rough out your carvings? I can understand the bullet and needle shaped burrs for detail work.
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Tamapoutini
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 1529
From: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
| Posted: 2008-08-10 5:58 pm Permalink
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On 2008-08-10 15:15, JohnnyP wrote:
TTT-- If you don't use the "disc" type cutters how do you rough out your carvings? I can understand the bullet and needle shaped burrs for detail work.
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On a diamond 'periperal' wheel: 10" diameter x 1 1/2" wide working face. This can achieve most outer/convex shaping (a 'flat-wheel' serves a similar purpose; more agressively due to more diamond contact, but with less versitility. Added bonus that stone can be dressed flat with ease), and then onto the handpiece for internal and detail work.
There is also the 'point-carving' unit for work which is too heafty for the handpiece; basically a jacobs chuck spinning horizontally and able to hold a wide range of oversize burrs (points), spheres, mini-wheels (turbine wheels), sanding drums, etc. When using this, the carving is held in both hands against the spinning tool. The largest of my hei-Tiki are about at the point where I should give the handpiece a break and switch over to the point-carver, but am so used to the handpiece that I rarely do.
The point carving unit is indespensible once youve committed to stone carving due to its sheer versatility but when just starting out youre probably better ignoring it & sticking to smaller work that can be easily handled by your handpiece.
Hope this helps!
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sar1
Tiki Centralite
Joined: Oct 26, 2007
Posts: 22
From: Ohio, USA
| Posted: 2008-08-10 8:51 pm Permalink
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On 2008-07-26 15:09, surfintiki wrote:
My God Paipo! That is serious information! Thanks! It'll take me a couple times reading it to figure out.
One thing I've been looking for, is the chuck, that goes on the bench grinder. Are these things home depot would have? I couldn't find it anywhere online, maybe I'm calling it something wrong.
I love this guys setup, and want to try to match this...
(I think I'm gonna start doing bone first, before trying stone.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TflQao9Qepk&feature=related
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Look for arbors or motor arbors, you need to know the shaft size of the motor that you are using, most are 1/2in to 5/8in. Here are some places to find keyless chuck motor arbors, http://www.grizzly.com/products/Motor-Arbors-5-8-Arbor-1-2-Keyless-Chuck/G5553 http://www.contenti.com/products/polishing/310-783L.html on the Contenti page look down through the page and there are about three keyless chuck arbors.
Good Luck.
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Benzart
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jan 09, 2004
Posts: 10309
From: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
| Posted: 2008-08-11 02:38 am Permalink
Excelent info here, Thanks again Tama And you too Sar1.
Perry, I'm not sure you should use that big bad Foredom, it puts a big strain on your hands and thumb, Send it to me for Evaluation and I'll let you know what we should do to it! 
Tama I would love to have the expanding wheel and a Point machine too but for now I'm stuck with using my hand pieces for most all my work but for some sanding and polishing on the drill press and bench grinders.
I guess I'll have to get a couple chucks for the grinder and see what happens. I'm Really getting the urge to mess up some Jade and Stone. 
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surfintiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 1566
From: S. Chatham, MA
| Posted: 2008-08-11 5:28 pm Permalink
So Tama, this is what I should use for cutting the shape, out of a slab?...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Diamond-Grinding-Wheel-8-x1-1-2-220-grit_W0QQitemZ220267788964QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220267788964&_trkparms=72%3A552%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&timeout=1218500582461
is this considered peripheral?
damn, that's a long link...see if you can assemble that URL.
Also...looking at raw jade on ebay, the Wyoming and BC stuff...any pointers in choosing a nice, semi-low cost piece? End cuts bad? etc.
I saw pieces that were nice and thin, all I'd have to do is draw a design on it, and go right to work. Is it that easy?
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Tamapoutini
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 1529
From: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
| Posted: 2008-08-11 6:29 pm Permalink
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On 2008-08-11 17:28, surfintiki wrote:
So Tama, this is what I should use for cutting the shape, out of a slab?...
is this considered peripheral?
Also...looking at raw jade on ebay, the Wyoming and BC stuff...any pointers in choosing a nice, semi-low cost piece? End cuts bad? etc.
I saw pieces that were nice and thin, all I'd have to do is draw a design on it, and go right to work. Is it that easy?
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To cut your basic shape out of a slab you should use a trimsaw with a diamond blade (like a tile saw) : something like this - but the link you provided does indeed show a peripheral wheel, your main shaping/carving tool.
Jades value basically comes down to quality & colour/attractiveness. The best stone to work is obviously free of flaws/cracks, shape doesnt really matter - often those wee end pieces suggest their own subject matter for sculptures or may yield a few nice steaks if slabbed. Pre-slabbed stone is great! Slabbing is a reasonably time consuming task, but then in its own way its quite exciting too..
Rock on SurfinT!
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surfintiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 1566
From: S. Chatham, MA
| Posted: 2008-08-16 6:40 pm Permalink
Just thought I'd share a good article I found on Jade...
http://reviews.ebay.com/WYOMING-NEPHRITE-JADE-MARKET-OF-TODAY-buyer-beware_W0QQugidZ10000000002756872QQ_trksidZp3286.c0.m17?_trksid=p3286.c0.m17
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Tamapoutini
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 30, 2006
Posts: 1529
From: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
| Posted: 2008-08-17 03:03 am Permalink
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On 2008-08-16 18:40, surfintiki wrote:
Just thought I'd share a good article I found on Jade...
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Very interesting, thanks for adding that SurfinT! The world of jade dealing has long been a place for sheisters fishing for the unwitting buyer. Similar-but-different scams still exist, the worst of which sees British Colombian, Siberian or other jade carved into Maori designs and cunningly labeled "genuine nephrite jade" - which it is, but who asks 'originating where'? 'carved where?' when its a quarter of the price of the genuine article? A more recent pseudo-scam that Ive noticed is that it now seems quite acceptable to call NZ bowenite (which the Moari termed Tangiwai) 'pounamu', and perhaps lead the buyer into thinking that they were buying nephrite, which they are not. The Maori did include nephrites' softer and less scratch-resistant cousin bowenite (a high quality serpentine) in the 'pounamu' basket, but they knew the difference between the two very well. Basically bowenite is an inferior & slightly more common material with less inherant value.
*Funny, his rant about 'thulite' being passed off as nephrite/jade - I was once sent a nice looking block of 'pink nephrite, otherwise known as thulite' to try (I thought it might make a nice pink hei-Tiki for the girls.. or the more sensitive boys), turns out to be very weak, crumbly and behaved nothing like nephrite.
Again, thanks. Very interesting and relevant to me at least. 
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Tama
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Benzart
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jan 09, 2004
Posts: 10309
From: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
| Posted: 2008-08-17 03:18 am Permalink
Thanks Surfin for that eye-opener of an article and after Tama's assessment, I'm totally afraid to buy "Jade"from eBay at all. Of course the guy tells us all this stuff and proceeds to sell us more Jade, like I suppose HIS is the only "good" stuff around.
I put my vote in for the article but I suspect many don't.
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kiwishaman
Tiki Socialite
Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 212
From: Aotearoa
| Posted: 2008-08-18 04:19 am Permalink
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On 2008-08-17 03:18, Benzart wrote:
Thanks Surfin for that eye-opener of an article and after Tama's assessment, I'm totally afraid to buy "Jade"from eBay at all. Of course the guy tells us all this stuff and proceeds to sell us more Jade, like I suppose HIS is the only "good" stuff around.
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Interestingly enough - he did not have any for sale when I looked!
Still, yes, he does seem to be saying that his is the only 'good' stuff, but my guess is there are other miners who are also selling 'good' stuff too.
I have noted there is someone here in NZ selling siberian jade on trademe (our version of ebay), and there are lots of people selling off NZ jade at extrememly high prices - offcuts etc. Traps for the unwary for sure.
Thanks guys - you are always so forthcoming with advice and knowledge. Such an asset to this community.
KS
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