FEATURES | MUSIC | BOOKS | DRINKS | FORUMS | GAMES | LINKS | ABOUT


advertise on Tiki Central

Celebrating classic and modern Polynesian Pop
  [Edit Profile]  [Edit Preferences]  [Search] [Sign Up]
[Personal Messages]  [Member List]  [Help/FAQ]  [Rules]  [Login]
Tiki Central Forums Collecting Tiki Are Shag's paintings all a bit different than prints ?
Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page ) Remove Highlighting
Are Shag's paintings all a bit different than prints ?
sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2008-09-07 7:15 pm   Permalink

As some of you know , I am in the market for a Shag serigraph . I've been looking at a couple , but noticed some differences between the pics on Shag's site and the photos of the prints for sale , and I'm not just talking colors here . Take a look at these two photos of AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENING . In the photo from Shag's site you'll notice the top of a building directly behind the Tiki monster which is NOT in the print for sale . Also , take a look at the woman at the far right . In the Shag pic much more of her leg is shown than in the for sale print . The roof of the building is also different .

I emailed Piet Agle for info but haven't gotten a reply .








 
View Profile of sushiman Send a personal message to sushiman      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2008-09-07 7:18 pm   Permalink

BTW , the Shag site photo is supposed to be a photo of a serigraph , but I suppose it is possible that they used the painting photo .

 
View Profile of sushiman Send a personal message to sushiman      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3093
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2008-09-07 10:54 pm   Permalink

+ Different rugs, different mugs and a star belly in one and not the other.

 
View Profile of Hakalugi Send a personal message to Hakalugi      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Bora Boris
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2005
Posts: 2595
From: Boogie Wonderland
Posted: 2008-09-07 11:07 pm   Permalink

The lights shining thru the window are different also.

 
View Profile of Bora Boris Send a personal message to Bora Boris      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
sasquatch
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Aug 29, 2007
Posts: 76
From: Newcastle, Australia
Posted: 2008-09-08 03:49 am   Permalink

Top post. I've noticed that sometimes serigraphs have different colours which I'm assuming are generated through the printing process, but to have different features.

Thats another thing... I know someone who might be able to help!

For information... The most recent price for a sale of that print I've found is US $510.00 (AU $629.09)
... It seemed to be a serigraph of the original painting after looking at the differences you identified!

_________________
Fan of Shag? - Check out
The Shag Pile

[ This Message was edited by: sasquatch 2008-09-08 03:52 ]

[ This Message was edited by: sasquatch 2008-09-08 03:53 ]


 View Profile of sasquatch Send a personal message to sasquatch  Email sasquatch Goto the website of sasquatch     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2008-09-08 03:57 am   Permalink

I've emailed Piet Agle . Hope he will come through with an explanation .

[ This Message was edited by: sushiman 2008-09-08 18:21 ]


 
View Profile of sushiman Send a personal message to sushiman      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Eddy Brazil
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 08, 2006
Posts: 190
From: Victoria, BC
Posted: 2008-09-08 07:22 am   Permalink

Also interesting, if you compare the two examples - is that the carpet behind the woman on the right is square in the first photo, and oval in the second photo. As well, the top of her head is in line with the base of the roof in the first example (lower in the second), and the inner (lighter blue) roof support rods stop at the edge of the roof on the second photo. Definitely a different composition.

 
View Profile of Eddy Brazil Send a personal message to Eddy Brazil      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Eddy Brazil
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 08, 2006
Posts: 190
From: Victoria, BC
Posted: 2008-09-08 07:22 am   Permalink






[ This Message was edited by: Eddy Brazil 2008-09-08 07:23 ]


 
View Profile of Eddy Brazil Send a personal message to Eddy Brazil      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2008-09-08 2:49 pm   Permalink

Can you give me contact info for the guy who might be able to clear this up ? Haven't heard from anybody in Shag's organization yet and I sent photos .






Quote:

On 2008-09-08 03:49, sasquatch wrote:
Top post. I've noticed that sometimes serigraphs have different colours which I'm assuming are generated through the printing process, but to have different features.

Thats another thing... I know someone who might be able to help!

For information... The most recent price for a sale of that print I've found is US $510.00 (AU $629.09)
... It seemed to be a serigraph of the original painting after looking at the differences you identified!

_________________
Fan of Shag? - Check out The Shag Pile

[ This Message was edited by: sasquatch 2008-09-08 03:52 ]

[ This Message was edited by: sasquatch 2008-09-08 03:53 ]



 
View Profile of sushiman Send a personal message to sushiman      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Mo-Eye
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 629
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Posted: 2008-09-08 3:17 pm   Permalink

It's not that uncommon for artists to alter an image before printing. It is almost standard for most to do some color correcting and turn up the contrast a bit for the print, as can be seen in your example. I have also seen images altered so that they fit a certain size paper. On this one it looks like there was a desire to print it at a certain width, which ended up cropping off some at the top. That is probably why the building was shorten, as opposed to having the top of it run off the image. That is also most likely why the woman in the corner's position was altered, to just better position her in the final print size.

You can also see that Shag's signature in the lower left of the original was removed - another very common thing done with prints that are going to be signed later.

None of these things should lead you to believe it is a bogus copy. People who are going to copy artwork illegally are not going to go through this much trouble to alter it.


 
View Profile of Mo-Eye Send a personal message to Mo-Eye  Goto the website of Mo-Eye     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2008-09-08 5:01 pm   Permalink

Mo-Eye ,

Thank you for your input .

I have viewed photos of this serigraph on a variety of websites . Two examples below . ALL show the print as per original . I know there is at least one member who owns this print . I have emailed him to ask if his is per original or like the other . Haven't got a reply . Hoping he'll weigh in soon .

http://www.shagmart.com/pages/prextra.html

shag.php" target="_blank">http://www.orbitgalleryspace.com/artists/shag.php


 View Profile of sushiman Send a personal message to sushiman      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Mo-Eye
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 629
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Posted: 2008-09-08 5:21 pm   Permalink

One other thing to remember is that what is shown on the websites is not necessarily an image of the actual print. When I ran the Thor art program, there were many times that we were selling the prints before they were actually printed. Since we didn't have a photo of the actual print, we would still use the photo/scan of the original on the website, since there weren't any real noticeable differences that could be seen on the computer screen. So you may want to double check with some one on the site about that.

However, if you can actually find 2 physical prints that are different, then that might be a little shady and may warrant further research.

Aloha!


 
View Profile of Mo-Eye Send a personal message to Mo-Eye  Goto the website of Mo-Eye     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
sushiman
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 28, 2007
Posts: 313
From: Kumamoto , Japan
Posted: 2008-09-08 6:28 pm   Permalink


Yes , I'd thought of that . Assuming for a moment that the serigraph in question is authentic , I just find it hard to understand why Shag felt it was necessary to make so many changes to the orignal , and I'm not just talking contrast and color . The changes are numerous :

* Cut building top
* Tiki Monster belly button star removed
* Shape of rugs changed
* Different mugs
* Brighter lights in windows
* Woman's position changed



Quote:

On 2008-09-08 17:21, Mo-Eye wrote:
One other thing to remember is that what is shown on the websites is not necessarily an image of the actual print. When I ran the Thor art program, there were many times that we were selling the prints before they were actually printed. Since we didn't have a photo of the actual print, we would still use the photo/scan of the original on the website, since there weren't any real noticeable differences that could be seen on the computer screen. So you may want to double check with some one on the site about that.

However, if you can actually find 2 physical prints that are different, then that might be a little shady and may warrant further research.

Aloha!





 
View Profile of sushiman Send a personal message to sushiman      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Gromit_Fan
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 65
From: Portland, OR, USA
Posted: 2008-09-08 7:13 pm   Permalink

I collect serigraphs specifically because I love the process, and Shag
is not the only artist I collect.

There are almost always changes, some more subtle than others.

Sometimes it is a concession to the printing process.
Shag's paintings have patterns in the background that usually
seem to be approximated or altogether omitted in the serigraph.

I own Shag's "The Extraordinary Evening" and it is like the second picture,
with the most notable changes to the rug (round, not square), the Tiki mug,
and the cropping of the figures just below the knee.

Why?

Well, there are going to be multiple reasons:

The original painting was created in 2002 and can be seen
in the book Shag: The Art of Josh Agle on page 124.
In five years, Shag has probably rethought some of the compositional elements.

Round rug change seems to be a compositional consideration,
as does the zooming in on the figures, leaving less "inactive space."
Also the removal of the building at the top of the Tiki Giant's
head makes it not look like some weird attempt at a headpiece.

I also suspect that the mug in the woman's hand
was too hard to screen print as it appeared in the painting,
hence the more simple (and less natural) hand pose and simpler mug.

I also own Shag's serigraphs of
"The Raft of the Medusa," "The Elegant Thief,"
"L.A. Modern (Night)," "The Sun Also Rises," and "Glorious Lifestyle"

I haven't seen the original painting for "The Sun Also Rises," but all
of the others include changes to the colors and other alterations, some
subtle, some not.

This is just part of the process of creating serigraphs from paintings.
There is always going to be some editing unless the original was strictly
designed with a serigraph's limitations in mind.

Shagmart, and other Shag distributors, seem to more often than not show images
of the original painting with a faked white border, and not the final serigraph when promoting the serigraph. I don't know why they do this,
other than they probably prepare the image for advanced
sale before the serigraph has been finalized.

The other artist I collect, Patrick Nagel, also has variations between the
originals and the serigraphs. It is almost unavoidable.

Serigraphs are still the Rolls Royce of fine art prints, and I much
prefer them to lithographs or glicees, which are often exact renderings
of the originals, but also are not nearly as rich in texture.
Shag's earliest prints are lithos and they look bland, texurally and
in quality, compared to the serigraphs.

Serigraphs also lay down a lot more pigment, and are much less prone
to fading than lithographs.

The final serigraphs are the way Shag wants them. Any variations from
the original paintings are done by Shag and should not negatively impact
your feelings or thoughts about the print.


Best,
Gromit Fan


[quote]
On 2008-09-08 18:28, sushiman wrote:

Yes , I'd thought of that . Assuming for a moment that the serigraph in question is authentic , I just find it hard to understand why Shag felt it was necessary to make so many changes to the original , and I'm not just talking contrast and color . The changes are numerous :

* Cut building top
* Tiki Monster belly button star removed
* Shape of rugs changed
* Different mugs
* Brighter lights in windows
* Woman's position changed



Quote:

On 2008-09-08 17:21, Mo-Eye wrote:
One other thing to remember is that what is shown on the websites is not necessarily an image of the actual print. When I ran the Thor art program, there were many times that we were selling the prints before they were actually printed. Since we didn't have a photo of the actual print, we would still use the photo/scan of the original on the website, since there weren't any real noticeable differences that could be seen on the computer screen. So you may want to double check with some one on the site about that.

However, if you can actually find 2 physical prints that are different, then that might be a little shady and may warrant further research.

Aloha!



[ This Message was edited by: Gromit_Fan 2008-09-08 21:32 ]


 
View Profile of Gromit_Fan Send a personal message to Gromit_Fan      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Gromit_Fan
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Apr 09, 2007
Posts: 65
From: Portland, OR, USA
Posted: 2008-09-08 7:30 pm   Permalink

Here is another Shag example of original painting vs serigraph.

"The Queen's Bathroom" original:


"The Queen's Bathroom" serigraph:




Clearly, in this case, there is evidence of simplifying the image to make
it easier to create a serigraph.

Gromit Fan


[ This Message was edited by: Gromit_Fan 2008-09-08 19:33 ]


 
View Profile of Gromit_Fan Send a personal message to Gromit_Fan      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
U-Moderate:
  
v1.5

[ About Tiki Central | Contact Tiki Central | Advertise on Tiki Central ]
(c) 2000-2014 Tikiroom.com (tm), Tiki Central (tm)

Credits & copyright infomation