FEATURES | MUSIC | BOOKS | DRINKS | FORUMS | GAMES | LINKS | ABOUT


advertise on Tiki Central

Celebrating classic and modern Polynesian Pop
  [Edit Profile]  [Edit Preferences]  [Search] [Sign Up]
[Personal Messages]  [Member List]  [Help/FAQ]  [Rules]  [Login]
Tiki Central Forums Tiki Drinks and Food Does boiling ruin simple syrup
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
Does boiling ruin simple syrup
Bali O Hai O
Tiki Centralite

Joined: May 04, 2010
Posts: 38
Posted: 2010-05-11 03:50 am   Permalink

Stirrings does make a good simple syrup. Never tried making my own, but now I might.

 
View Profile of Bali O Hai O Send a personal message to Bali O Hai O      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
tabuzak
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 268
From: New York City
Posted: 2010-05-11 06:52 am   Permalink

I think all this fussing over simple syrup and variations is very worthwhile. I just got a bottle of Scrappy's Gomme syrup to play with and so far have made some really smooth Martinez's and daiquiris with it. I was disappointed to read Martiki-Bird's reluctance above to make gomme syrup. It's too expensive to buy for every day consumption.

Anyway, I've gotten stuck so many times traveling or running out at home, that I've gotten pretty used to just shaking it. Just shake equal parts water and white sugar in a bottle and voila! Simple syrup that works just fine - and refrigerated, lasts for weeks. Although, I use it up pretty fast.

Along the same lines, shaking equal parts Pom pomegranate juice and white sugar makes a better grenadine than I've ever been able to buy.

-Jack


 
View Profile of tabuzak Send a personal message to tabuzak  Email tabuzak Goto the website of tabuzak     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Vince Martini
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 02, 2010
Posts: 274
From: Iki Pohaku, Arkansas
Posted: 2010-05-11 07:06 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-10 09:36, Swanky wrote:
Shaking water and sugar will not make simple syrup. It will simply make sugar water and the sugar will turn back into sugar in the jar pretty soon.

You will need to get the water to boiling to break the sugar into its components and make a solution that is more sweet than actual sugar, and that will keep the sugar in suspension rather than precipitating out and forming that sugar crud in your jar.

The ideal way to do this and have it keep without precipiatating is to first, boil the water, add a drop or two of some acid, like lemon or lime juice, and add an equal amount of sugar in until the sugar is gone and reduce heat. Let this simmer at a low roil for 10-15 minutes. Then cool and bottle.

That little but of acid helps to keep the 2 components of sugar separated AND to keep them joined with the water so they do not precipitate out. You'll never taste the acid. That is inverted sugar, which is the same as simple syrup in taste and use, but far better in terms of shelf life.

The Bum uses the terms simple syrup, sugar syrup and rock candy syrup interchangably in his books.

Pouring the cold sugar in the boiling water will stop the boil (probably) and the heat will rise as you stir the sugar away. Once it is desolved, the chemical change is done as far as that high heat. You should not burn it unless you are boiling it a long time or making a large batch.




Swanky -

This is what I was taught and it always holds true to form. I am a big fan of mojitos (okay, not a Polynesian delicacy, but a good and simple drink recipe all the same) and am making simple syrup for my mojitos, pear mojitos, cucumber mojitos and such. I find by following this process, you can create a solution that is very malleable. That is, if you are having a party, you can make ample amounts and freeze the solution and it will not turn grainy.

I let my water boil, drop a few drops of fresh lime into the water -- let this boil in for just a moment, then slowly add the sugar into the mix. I keep a consistent stir to keep the sugar off the bottom of the pot, too. When you want to reactivate the frozen simple sugar, just place the glad bag into a pot of warm water and you are ready for your next batch ofr award winning concoctions. Just one thing, I better get an invite to the next cocktail party!

Shaken and stirred -

Vince Martini




 
View Profile of Vince Martini Send a personal message to Vince Martini  Email Vince Martini Goto the website of Vince Martini     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Chip and Andy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 2124
From: Corner table, Molokai Lounge, Mai-Kai.
Posted: 2010-05-11 07:16 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 06:52, tabuzak wrote:
Along the same lines, shaking equal parts Pom pomegranate juice and white sugar makes a better grenadine than I've ever been able to buy.

-Jack



Take a nice chunk of lemon peel and give it a twist into that mix. It is the oil from the skin you want, not the juice. It will really make your grenadine sparkle on the tongue.


 
View Profile of Chip and Andy Send a personal message to Chip and Andy  Email Chip and Andy Goto the website of Chip and Andy     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
tabuzak
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 268
From: New York City
Posted: 2010-05-11 07:34 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 07:16, Chip and Andy wrote:

Take a nice chunk of lemon peel and give it a twist into that mix. It is the oil from the skin you want, not the juice. It will really make your grenadine sparkle on the tongue.



Thanks for the tip! I will give that a try.

-Jack


 
View Profile of tabuzak Send a personal message to tabuzak  Email tabuzak Goto the website of tabuzak     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
tabuzak
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 268
From: New York City
Posted: 2010-05-11 09:30 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 07:06, Vince Martini wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-05-10 09:36, Swanky wrote:
Shaking water and sugar will not make simple syrup. It will simply make sugar water and the sugar will turn back into sugar in the jar pretty soon.





Old wive's tale?

Shaking water and sugar (1:1) without heat is a standard way to make bar simple syrup. The sugar does not turn back into sugar in the jar pretty soon, as you say. I've had a batch last for weeks without a problem.

You should try this. You will like it. : )

I have no problem with your wanting to cook it. There are some possible health benefits to doing so, but I don't want people reading this thread to think that the only way to make simple syrup is to cook it, especially if they are having trouble in doing so.


-Jack


 
View Profile of tabuzak Send a personal message to tabuzak  Email tabuzak Goto the website of tabuzak     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Martiki-bird
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 135
From: Blue Lory Lounge, NJ
Posted: 2010-05-11 09:33 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 07:16, Chip and Andy wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-05-11 06:52, tabuzak wrote:
Along the same lines, shaking equal parts Pom pomegranate juice and white sugar makes a better grenadine than I've ever been able to buy.

-Jack



Take a nice chunk of lemon peel and give it a twist into that mix. It is the oil from the skin you want, not the juice. It will really make your grenadine sparkle on the tongue.



Yummy! I know what we'll be doing next time we need grenadine.


 
View Profile of Martiki-bird Send a personal message to Martiki-bird  Email Martiki-bird Goto the website of Martiki-bird     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Martiki-bird
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 135
From: Blue Lory Lounge, NJ
Posted: 2010-05-11 09:50 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 09:30, tabuzak wrote:

Old wive's tale?

Shaking water and sugar (1:1) without heat is a standard way to make bar simple syrup. The sugar does not turn back into sugar in the jar pretty soon, as you say. I've had a batch last for weeks without a problem.

You should try this. You will like it. : )

I have no problem with your wanting to cook it. There are some possible health benefits to doing so, but I don't want people reading this thread to think that the only way to make simple syrup is to cook it, especially if they are having trouble in doing so.

-Jack



Adding some related info to Jack's post:

Shaking a sugar/water solution vigorously provides enough just enough heat (through friction) to break down the sugar crystals into microscopic particles. This solution will keep (in the fridge) for months without separating. I personally have cold shaken both 1:1 (simple) and 2:1 (rich simple)...you get a nice workout with the rich syrup, but it can be done.

Inverting the sugar with heat (boiling the water to dissolve) will create a less stable solution: the sugar crystals will want to adhere to each other instead of the water molecules, and will separate and form "rock candy" crystals much sooner than the cold shaken solution. However, it will generally stay stable enough to make cocktails for a month or so.

Other thought that might be of use:
Sugar is a preservative which on is a naturally hostile environment to bacteria, but the moisture in simple syrup creates a friendly environment for mold. Adding alcohol will help with that.

Heating water is not a bad idea because heat will destroy most undesirable thingies in the water.

Here's an alternative to boiling sugar and water without risk of over-cooking:
Boil water in a tea kettle; place your measured sugar in a heat-proof bowl; measure the boiled water into a pyrex measuring cup, add to sugar and stir until dissolved.

Cheers,
Gina


 
View Profile of Martiki-bird Send a personal message to Martiki-bird  Email Martiki-bird Goto the website of Martiki-bird     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Swanky
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 4963
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
Posted: 2010-05-11 09:54 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 09:30, tabuzak wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-05-11 07:06, Vince Martini wrote:
Quote:

On 2010-05-10 09:36, Swanky wrote:
Shaking water and sugar will not make simple syrup. It will simply make sugar water and the sugar will turn back into sugar in the jar pretty soon.





Old wive's tale?

Shaking water and sugar (1:1) without heat is a standard way to make bar simple syrup. The sugar does not turn back into sugar in the jar pretty soon, as you say. I've had a batch last for weeks without a problem.

You should try this. You will like it. : )

I have no problem with your wanting to cook it. There are some possible health benefits to doing so, but I don't want people reading this thread to think that the only way to make simple syrup is to cook it, especially if they are having trouble in doing so.


-Jack



Actually, they are not the same. Sugar and water mixed cold is sugar water and has a sweetness index equal to sugar.

Simple syrup, made by heating sugar and brealing it into glucose and fructose, and water is sweeter than sugar because fructose is sweeter than sugar.

Commercial versions use cream of atrtar instead of juice juice for the citric acid.

A good article on inverted sugar.

 View Profile of Swanky Send a personal message to Swanky  Email Swanky Goto the website of Swanky     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
tabuzak
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 268
From: New York City
Posted: 2010-05-11 11:06 am   Permalink

Quote:

[Actually, they are not the same. Sugar and water mixed cold is sugar water and has a sweetness index equal to sugar.



Sugar and water shaken cold (or cooked and stirred) (1:1) is called "simple syrup" by mixologists. That's where I am coming from. Who calls it "sugar water?" And what's the difference?

I read your linked article and did not see any connection to this discussion.

What am I missing?

-Jack


 
View Profile of tabuzak Send a personal message to tabuzak  Email tabuzak Goto the website of tabuzak     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Martiki-bird
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 135
From: Blue Lory Lounge, NJ
Posted: 2010-05-11 12:31 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 09:54, Swanky wrote:
Actually, they are not the same. Sugar and water mixed cold is sugar water and has a sweetness index equal to sugar.

Simple syrup, made by heating sugar and brealing it into glucose and fructose, and water is sweeter than sugar because fructose is sweeter than sugar.



The two solutions described here are basically one and the same, just achieved by different methods. Both examples are a syrup solution created by hydrolysis (decomposition of sucrose into fructose and dextrose by water.) Heat is present in both examples: stirring or shaking hard produces heat, as does applying heat via the stove.

For all intents and purposes, they are both 'simple syrup'.

Invert syrup is made using the same hydrolysis process, with the addition of an acid to speed up the breakdown process. The resulting syrup has less water, and may be perceived as tasting sweeter.

To invert sugar, the sugar/water solution is boiled for 20 minutes with the chosen acid (citric, cream of tarter or lemon juice.)

Quote:

On 2010-05-11 09:54, Swanky wrote:
Commercial versions use cream of atrtar instead of juice juice for the citric acid.



Just for the record, the purpose of the addition of cream of tarter, citric acid or even lemon juice is only to speed up hydrolysis: they do not act as a preservative.

Homemade invert syrup is more shelf-stable than cold-shaken or quick-heated simple syrup because it has less water content, but that is not a guarantee of absolute lack of bacteria or fungi (after months of sitting on a bar shelf.) Refrigerate to have a safe (and happy) happy hour.

Cheers!
Gina



 
View Profile of Martiki-bird Send a personal message to Martiki-bird  Email Martiki-bird Goto the website of Martiki-bird     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Swanky
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 4963
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
Posted: 2010-05-12 11:15 am   Permalink

Go Gina! Bust some science on us!

 
View Profile of Swanky Send a personal message to Swanky  Email Swanky Goto the website of Swanky     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
WestADad
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 745
From: Tornado Alley
Posted: 2010-05-12 11:31 am   Permalink

I am really enjoying this thread. I bring my 1:1 simple syrup to a boil, let it boil for one minute, lower the heat to a simmer. Simmer it for ten minutes, put it in a sterile bottle and refrigerate it. This stays stable for me for about two months.

I do this with demerara sugar syrup as well because I don't like the taste of cold process.

Chris

_________________


 
View Profile of WestADad Send a personal message to WestADad  Email WestADad     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Chip and Andy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 2124
From: Corner table, Molokai Lounge, Mai-Kai.
Posted: 2010-05-12 11:47 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2010-05-12 11:31, WestADad wrote:
...I don't like the taste of cold process.



Did anyone mention that you should use 'good' water for any and all of these kinds of project?

In the case of simple syrup you only have two ingredients so any impurity in one of them will show through at the end. And if you are doing any kind of reduction to get where your going with a home-brew project, the reduction removes water but leaves everything else including any impurities in your ingredients.

I have found that two trips through a Brita filter (or whatever brand your using that is similar) can make a huge difference in the end.


 
View Profile of Chip and Andy Send a personal message to Chip and Andy  Email Chip and Andy Goto the website of Chip and Andy     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
WestADad
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 745
From: Tornado Alley
Posted: 2010-05-12 11:53 am   Permalink

Good point about the water, I use filtered.

Chris


 
View Profile of WestADad Send a personal message to WestADad  Email WestADad     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
U-Moderate:
  
v1.5

[ About Tiki Central | Contact Tiki Central | Advertise on Tiki Central ]
(c) 2000-2014 Tikiroom.com (tm), Tiki Central (tm)

Credits & copyright infomation