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Tiki Central Forums Creating Tiki Tiki Carving HELP !!! Spar Urethane gone bad!
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HELP !!! Spar Urethane gone bad!
SDshirtman
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Sep 19, 2009
Posts: 71
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2010-09-21 11:26 am   Permalink

Ok so I'm a little panicked right now. I finished staining my Tiki Saturday.
Last night I bought some Varithane spar urethane out door clear satin. I applied a thick coat in my garage around 9 pm.
It looked even and glossy. I went to bed.

I woke up this morning to huge patches of milky grey spots in the crevices and a few other patches where it was laid on thicker.
Thinking it was ruined I called the customer service number on the can. They told me some moisture had probably gotten into it over night (Duh).
They said to try treating it with denatured alcohol. So I ran up to HD and picked up a gallon and started applying it.


It seems to help a little bit. You can actually see small water droplets form while/just after its evaporating. When its wet with the alcohol it turns much clearer. But as it dried its going back to the blush. Especially in the crevices where it was thickest.
During a second call to customer service it was suggested I lightly sand the finish to break it open. This is great in theory but I just cant sand the deep crevices like that.


Customer service told me that part of the problem could be that the satin isnt made for rough surfaces and a second coat might smooth it out and help.
Because of the way it looks when I coat it in the alcohol (mostly clear but opaque when it evaporates again) I'm wondering if a second coat of spar will melt back into the finish and eliminate/help this problem? I dont want to make it worse. At the same time I dont want to wait too long and let this fully cure and seal in the problem forever.

I cant believe this happened. All those hours of work just to ruin it in the end.

Anyone done this and have any advice or suggestions?



 
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RevBambooBen
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 7440
From: Huntikington Beach
Posted: 2010-09-21 12:07 pm   Permalink

burn it!

 
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Bay Park Buzzy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 2829
From: West Bay Park, San Diego, CA
Posted: 2010-09-21 12:20 pm   Permalink

I stopped using that brand a while ago because it pretty much sucked...I've had better results with the ACE brand spar.

However, I can see a few problems in your application of it as well.

"Last night I bought some Varithane spar urethane out door clear satin.I applied a thick coat in my garage around 9 pm"

Next time, put the spar on in the morning on the warmest, dryest day possible. It was actually drizzly on the coast over here last night and this morning. You're a little drier out there, but it's still way to moist to be doing that. Cloudy, cold, and damp weather will mess with the drying process. A sunny day and it will be dry to the touch in 3-6 hours, on days like we have today, it could take as long 2-3 days. You should keep it at least 70 degrees and dry for best results

"I applied a thick coat in my garage around 9 pm.
It looked even and glossy"

It just hurts me to read that. you should do several very thin coats instead. The first I do with spar doesn't even look like it was finished at all. It should take on its sealed finished look after about the third coat. If you look at the way the thick spar dries on the rim of your can, you'll see what happens to the tone of the spar when it is too thick to dry right. That's probably what is happening to you right now. Sometimes it will happen if your second coat gets sealed between the first and third without drying all the way. that will usually discolor about a month or so after you do it wrong. It's like a tiki finishing time bomb! Hope it doesn't happen like that after you sell it or pass it on...

" All those hours of work just to ruin it in the end."

Yep. And unfortunately, you know exactly what not to do next time. If it was that easy, eveyone would make perfectly carved and finshed tikis every time.

I always do a few quick "test" carvings before I use any new stain or finsh type or brand. that way, if something unforseen happens, I'm only out a few hours work, rather than several days.

If it was me, I'd go get some stripper, and start all over again.

You've been working on that tiki for about 6-7 months now? What's another few days of refinishing?

Buzzy Out!



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SDshirtman
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Sep 19, 2009
Posts: 71
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2010-09-21 12:21 pm   Permalink

Thanks Buzz.

The thing that really sucks is I know better. I dont know what I was thinking. I wasnt thinking.

So you think stripping is the only way to go at this point?

Here are some pics.









I cant even begin to tell you how bummed I am right now. Nice dark cloud over my day.

[ This Message was edited by: SDshirtman 2010-09-21 12:30 ]


 
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AlohaStation
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 2135
From: So FL
Posted: 2010-09-21 12:29 pm   Permalink

Gotta agree with everything Buzzy said - the first few coats should be very thin. If the stuff is thick, thin it out - this will help the palm soak the finish into the wood (not sit on top of). Sand lightly in between coats and take your time. It takes more time and effort to fix something, rather than to slowly finish a carving that has taken months. Finishing seems to be the easiest aspect of carving when in fact its the hardest! There are way to many things that can go wrong just to jump in and hope its done in a few hours. Stains, oils, urethane, burning, painting - ALWAYS use a scrap piece of wood to practice on!!!!!

 
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Clysdalle
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Joined: Jan 27, 2006
Posts: 1010
From: Carlsbad, CA
Posted: 2010-09-21 1:27 pm   Permalink

I've had good luck using a heat gun on the milky areas in the past...seems to quick cure them and remove the milkey look almost immediately. Give it a try...

 
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SDshirtman
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Sep 19, 2009
Posts: 71
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2010-09-21 1:52 pm   Permalink

Thanks. I'm off to harbor freight for a heat gun. I'll let you know how it goes. I hope this works. wish me luck.


 
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SDshirtman
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Sep 19, 2009
Posts: 71
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2010-09-21 2:58 pm   Permalink

Tried the heat gun. No dice.

Back to bummed.


 
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4WDtiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 1856
From: Omao, Kauai
Posted: 2010-09-21 5:13 pm   Permalink

Ditto what Buzzy said about waiting for a hot sunny day next time. And thinning down. I've used mineral spirits to thin it. Sorry that doesn't help for this tiki, but if it were mine, I would put it out in the sun (if you have some) for a week, bringing it indoors at night. It might clear it up, can't hurt!

 
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SDshirtman
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Sep 19, 2009
Posts: 71
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2010-09-21 6:22 pm   Permalink

Thanks Bill. The customer service rep said to try the same thing.

I did pick an inconspicuous spot and tried adding some more urethane over it and it helped somewhat. But not much in the cracks.


Eventually I'll fix this.
Since I burned this one I may just wait and try air brushing some black paint in some of the crevices and see if that helps mask things.
That will have to do because I aint stripping it.

In the meantime I'll just let him sit for a while in the sun all day for a week or so as suggested and see if I get lucky.
I guess thats all I can do.

I'm off to the pub for a pint to cheer up. After all there are for worse things happening in the world then me botching the finish on my tiki.




[ This Message was edited by: sdshirtman 2010-10-01 19:23 ]


 
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Clarita
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 1295
From: BA Arg
Posted: 2010-09-22 10:20 am   Permalink

Oh I'm very sorry. but this is what people call experience, all great carvers has it, that includes the cutting yourself part too. think about it that way, now you can join the club of the great carvers that survived all, and kept going, that makes a real great artist, no not making mistakes.. much aloha to you . (isn't there a solvent you can use to make the coat thinner applying it with a brush and taking out the excess with a cloth?)
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AlohaStation
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 2135
From: So FL
Posted: 2010-09-22 10:48 am   Permalink

There is a cure. Sanding - yes, the one thing that you probably want to avoid, but truly the best way to "fix" it. The good thing is that you can use a coarse grit for quick removal. If you are concerned with losing the burnt areas, don't be, because you can always re-burn it. And you can also use paint as a cover-up. You can leave it, but the urethane may eventually start to peel away and its always gonna bug you. Don't give up - your chops are too good! Lets see some Glamour Shots of this guy!!!

 
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pjc5150
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2009
Posts: 2234
From: Tampa, FL
Posted: 2010-09-22 11:52 am   Permalink

do you guys wait until the wood is completely dry before you apply the urethane, or can it be applied to a log that is not entirely dry inside & out.

I see all of these urethaned tikis and I'm thinking to myself "jeez, do ALL these guys have some stash of logs that have been sitting around drying for 2 years???"


 
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AlohaStation
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 2135
From: So FL
Posted: 2010-09-22 12:45 pm   Permalink

The Mexican Fan Palms that they have on the West Coast/Southern Cali do not pose the same problems we deal with. Florida logs are extremely full of water and different species. Humidity also effects the amount of time it takes for them to dry. It shouldn't take 2 years for palm logs to dry in FL - if you store them vertically and inside it may only take a month or more. If you store them outside and horizontally you may run the risk of dealing with rot.

 
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RevBambooBen
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 7440
From: Huntikington Beach
Posted: 2010-09-22 1:04 pm   Permalink

Quote:


I see all of these urethaned tikis and I'm thinking to myself "jeez, do ALL these guys have some stash of logs that have been sitting around drying for 2 years???"



check out Buzzy's Pile!


 
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