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Tiki Central Forums » » General Tiki » » Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?
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Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?
bigbrotiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 11588
From: Tiki Island, above the Silverlake
Posted: 2011-03-06 10:14 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-03-06 19:30, icebaer69 wrote:
Quote:

... this ain't for the weak of stomach so VIEW WITH CAUTION.
... HOLY CRAP that's HORRIBLE!


http://www.dallasvoice.com/munch-madness-brackets-run-upscale-sports-bar-swing-1067513.html



The horror, the horror. That is so sad, indeed. Every Tikiphile's nightmare come true: A Sports Bar replacing an authentic Tiki Temple. Which, after surviving for decades, is irrevocably lost..


 
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RevBambooBen
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 12, 2002
Posts: 7911
From: Huntikington Beach
Posted: 2011-03-07 03:23 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-03-06 22:14, bigbrotiki wrote:
Quote:

On 2011-03-06 19:30, icebaer69 wrote:
Quote:

... this ain't for the weak of stomach so VIEW WITH CAUTION.
... HOLY CRAP that's HORRIBLE!


http://www.dallasvoice.com/munch-madness-brackets-run-upscale-sports-bar-swing-1067513.html



The horror, the horror. That is so sad, indeed. Every Tikiphile's nightmare come true: A Sports Bar replacing an authentic Tiki Temple. Which, after surviving for decades, is irrevocably lost..



Ugh.

I heard that Buster's Beach House in the LBC is turning into a sports bar also!
Although not "Tiki" but OA lamps and Bamboo Ben decor.

Ugh.
_________________


Bamboo Ben
Tiki Bars I've designed/built. TikiCat, Royal Hawaiian, Kona Club, Frankie's Tiki Room, Pacific Seas, Don the Beachcomber,Forbidden Island, Kon Tiki Tucson, Tiki No,etc....


 
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Cammo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 1974
From: San Diego
Posted: 2011-03-08 5:35 pm   Permalink

A lot of issues came up during the main run of this thread.

I really didn’t expect it to get much notice, it was really designed as a tiny thread to just joke back and forth with MadDogMike, but man the TCers are quite a cerebral bunch and you folks should really be proud of yourselves.

Here’s the thing - what has happened to Tiki Palaces is scary, and according to the quotes below the direction our society is going in is even scarier. Comparing 1955 to 2011 is bound to be both divisive and illuminating no matter what the subject…

Anyway, here are the Hall of Fame Ultimate Quotes. All of these are to me essentially correct, and interesting as hell.

JeffBigTikiDude: (maybe the ultimate winner)
“I think that the answer is the Owners/Managers Have their heads up their collective asses.”

“…and the More I think about it.
the General Public has their heads up their asses,
and doesn't get Poly Pop/Tiki.”

BigBrotiki: (right on)
“Many folks equate anything vintage with 'dirty'. Not desirable for restaurants OR apartment buildings.”

Chip & Andy: (Great run-on stream of consciousness sentence, and anything with the words ‘Cranberry Accents’ is a winner)
“You have marketing and design departments full of ideas presenting their ideas to some middle level of management who put their two cents into the design before they give it to the next higher level of management who add their two cents and by the time it reaches the people who can say yes the idea has been flattened and homogenized so much as there is no character left but the top level management thinks its a good idea because they pay their marketing and design departments big bucks so they must know what they are doing when presenting this bland beige and dusty rose with cranberry accents plan.”

” …but, what is missing in most of today's 'Management' is Love.”
” Become cheerleaders for your local tiki bars and get people to go to them, show them how cool they are so they in turn bring others, and so on.”

“The bigger a company gets, the closer it gets to becoming a Corporation. The more Corporate it becomes the more it needs to make money to maintain its growth and eventually reaches a point where making money is the only goal.”

Mongoloid (interesting point, and interesting that the primary rule here on TC is that we cannot discuss religion, when we are talking about Tikis. I’ve always found it ridiculous and screamingly ethno-centric)
“The first thing that came to mind is that people can confuse tiki and consider and interperate it as a religious symbol and that by removing all tikis the hotel feels they will not be conflicting with someones beliefs and religion.”

Hakalugi:
“From a hotel restaurant perspective, and one that is somewhat isolated from other walking distance restaurants, the potential clientele is the people lodging at the hotel. The bean counter thinks he has a captive audience. Ideally the restaurant will move as many customers through the restaurant as fast as possible to maximize income. Any fancy decor or relaxing atmosphere only causes the diners to take their time, thus reducing the turnaround. Get rid of the great atmosphere and your diners per hour goes up!

Flawed in almost every respect...”

Aquarj:
“However, today's cultural landscape is far more eclectic, and it's possible to see a Forbidden Island or Smuggler's Cove thriving without being in the mainstream.”

“My neighbor wanted to paint his house, re-do his driveway, and change a bathroom. The city not only vetoed specific color choices on the exterior AND interior, but even dictated the colors he could choose from. They're essentially thinking about the lowest common denominator for all planning decisions, where the least offensive always trumps all else.”

“So imagine an owner facing massive impending renovation costs and dwindling attendance coupled with their own fatigue running the day to day enterprise. They're stuck.”

“The regulatory barriers to entry in most forms of the hospitality business have made it very difficult or almost impossible for the "lone visionary" to create a destination, or even take over and preserve the spirit in an existing place. It's not only the financing, but also the willingness to operate under all the modern constraints of safety, liability, staffing, etc. Only a rare individual has the capacity for all that, PLUS the execution of the day to day things that attract visitors, like good food and drinks. (Another reason to laud modern proprietors of Smuggler's Cove, Forbidden Island, Tonga Hut, Tiki Ti, the Mai Kai) All combined, this is a big reason why "Mom & Pops" are disappearing, and being replaced by much larger corporate entities with the consolidated capital to handle facilities costs, the teams of lawyers to handle and internally oversee all the modern legal and regulatory crap, and the economies of scale for the tasks of running the business.”

and . . .

“It could be that the Hanalei management wants to attract different kinds of conferences by having more of a blank canvas in their own decor. If you'd like to host conferences for any group, ranging from the National Seed & Fertilizer Society, to the Hermit Crab Lovers of North America, and the Fraternal Order of Glacial Ice Climbers, perhaps you want to de-emphasize your own theming so that visitors can transform the place into a seed, crab, or ice mecca for the duration of their conference.”

Gabbahey: (…and home is boring)
"DoubleTree has embarked on a multi-million dollar product enhancement initiative to reinvigorate the hotel experience and provide today's travelers with more of the residential feeling they enjoy at home."

Babalu:
Quote: “Fueling the growth, says Americas brand chief Gina LaBarre, is a combination of the chain’s refurbishing program, its mix of targeted amenities and services and its emphasis on what she calls “value over excess.”

Lucas Vigor:
“Actually, WE are all to blame.”

“Those cats had style, and a sense of whimsy....plus an exploratory spirit of adventure...who knows?”

Tiki Lee’s
“When you make your establishment look like everyone else's with a bland, neutral tone to the color, decor, style, etc., it's makes it easier to sell to other corperations who might be interested in buying the place if the present owners want to dump the property. If a potential buyer can buy a property that looks really similar to their other properties, the cost to make it "their own" is minimal, and thusly, very attractive.”

TikiG:
“Another snoop/scoop reveals that the property was audited by the parent company...recommended changes included consolidation of the restaurant into a full-service one with larger seating capacity, upgrades to the rooms into a higher class to stay competitive with surrounding hotel competition and to set it apart from Motel 6 - a neighbor, addition of conference rooms etc. because the Hanalei is a business conference hotel first and foremost, not a "book-by-the-night" motel."

MadDogMike:
“Just to add a little fuel to the fire and play devil's advocate - we look at the wonton destruction of Tiki Palaces and cringe in horror but we need to put the shoe on the other foot. Consider the fictitious "Fred's Fish Shack"; built in the 50s, it holds a dear spot in someone's heart because they went there on their first date. So they embark on a quest to save the place as a historical landmark. But the damned place is an eyesore and the food never was any good anyway. The only reason it stayed open was because Fred's wife had a day job that supported Fred's dream of owning a fish shack. It's located on prime real estate stands in the way of progress, it needs to be torn down to build - yes - ugly condos or another Walgreen's. So a few determined people and a good lawyer will stand in the way of progress for years, much to the dismay of 99% of the surrounding population.”

John-O (RIGHT ON Johnny!!!!)
“Why all the hate for "the corporations" ?? From a historic standpoint, Tiki was always by "The Man" and for "The Man".

“It amazes me how "anti-business" so many people here are. Let's say someone owns a struggling (yet profitable) mid-century Tiki business and then a large corporation offers to buy the land or location. If the owner takes up that offer to ensure the financial security of their family, is that "selling out" and being greedy or just being smart in our capitalist society ?

What would you do in a similar situation ?

Places like the Mai Kai and Tiki-Ti are anomolies and we should cherish them for as long as they exist, but we shouldn't expect others to "finance" our Tiki fix at a detriment to their cash flow.”

“It's all our own fault anyway. We spend all our time drinking in bars when we should be forming Political Action Committees and having representation in Washington D.C. !”

Tiki Trav (CORRECT!)
“…but for the record, I thought it was just to fit more seats where those pesky bridges/waterfalls were...”

Tom Slick
“ALL of the big casino/hotels are rethinking, replanning, rebranding, and leading to eventual remodeling, and losing All theme. ALL of the new resorts that have been built in the last 4 years are plain jane/brass & glass painted in white, with marble floors. There is no more "theming" in Vegas, on the Corporate level, unless that theme is representative of Wealthy or Rich.”

Limbo Lizard
“Beige is business, and doesn't attract criticism of expenditures like dense tiki decor and drinks named, e.g., "Vicious Virgin" would.”

“As we defend the prudence of our management judgment, and how the problems could not have been foreseen,… the LAST thing we need is someone whipping out a 2-year-old picture of our executives gathered around a table, with a roasted pig in the middle, and one of them being served a big flaming bowl of alcohol by a scantily attired maiden (or cocktails by Playboy bunnies).”

And . . .

Thanks to all the players!


 
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Limbo Lizard
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 777
From: Aboard the 'Leaky Tiki', Dallas
Posted: 2011-03-09 06:44 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-03-02 20:54, Cammo wrote:

"Here's the runner-up... none other than Limbo Lizardman...

[he] gets the following, mailed immediately to his home, free of charge:


The Extremely Rare, One-Of -A-Kind GOLDEN STONED Glazed Oki Doki Mug


I missed about a week of paying attention to TC, while in the final stages of helping plan and "put on" our boat club's annual Commodore's Ball, and a few more days recovering from the "fun" (open bar = "fun"). Just saw the awards post, last night.
Wow, I really appreciate the custom mug, Cammo. I will clear a space, in anticipation of its arrival, and display it in a prominent position of honor!
And I, too, greatly enjoyed this semester... I mean, thread. Great mental stimulation for all of us. With some re-organizing and editing, this thread might be a substantial part of a successful dissertation.
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 4089
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2011-03-09 07:24 am   Permalink

The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA

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christiki295
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3836
From: LA-2547 mls east Hawaii &5500 Easter Is
Posted: 2011-03-09 12:41 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-01-31 18:34, Cammo wrote:
Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?

I mean, what's the reason?



In the case of the Tonga Hut in SF, and Trader Vics Bev Hills, expensive, high-rise condos.


 
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JOHN-O
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2720
From: Dogtown, USA
Posted: 2011-03-09 12:49 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-03-09 07:24, lucas vigor wrote:
The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA


That was COOL !! (and educational at the same time) Thanks Lucas.

I'd like to see them play a major Tiki event and piss everyone off.

That would really be Punk Rock.

And here's another fun one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD5XxsmxIkM

It's sooo bad... That it's really GREAT !! Is it being played straight ??

Actually here's some "real" Punkers doing the Lounge version...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUbnOFPud3M

And OMG, that guy was lead guitarist for Surf music pioneers, the Impacts (?? !!) Another link in the great Tiki / Surf Music puzzle connection.



[ This Message was edited by: JOHN-O 2011-03-09 14:37 ]


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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 4089
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2011-03-09 2:43 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-03-09 12:49, JOHN-O wrote:
Quote:

On 2011-03-09 07:24, lucas vigor wrote:
The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA


That was COOL !! (and educational at the same time) Thanks Lucas.

I'd like to see them play a major Tiki event and piss everyone off.





Basically, they already have. Or at least bands just like them. Only, they didn't piss anyone off except ME. In some cases, bands like this were headlining or playing the prime slots, like at 10:00 in the evening when everyone is good and drunk and may not have noticed how bad the band really was.

I am sure they are very nice people, but this is not polypop. This is party city tiki, with less then 2 degrees of separation of Jimmy Buffet. And unfortunately, THIS is what a large majority of people outside of tiki central (and perhaps some IN Tiki central) believe Tiki to be.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it's what some other people also think...(but are hesitant to say in public, less they be perceived as being "negative".)

It all goes back to my main point that if WE are not sure what tiki is, or what it means, or the coolness and radness of what it used to be and where it came from, then how can we expect outsiders to understand? And can we fully blame them when they mow down a Trader Vics and make it into a sport's bar? The kind of place with margaritas and a few palapas or party city tikis, and Merrell Fankhauser setting up his band in the corner?



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"yer jus not tuned into the series of tubes yet, let it soak in".

[ This Message was edited by: lucas vigor 2011-03-09 14:53 ]


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telescopes
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 570
From: Palm Springs
Posted: 2011-03-09 2:54 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-03-09 14:43, lucas vigor wrote:
Quote:

On 2011-03-09 12:49, JOHN-O wrote:
Quote:

On 2011-03-09 07:24, lucas vigor wrote:
The decline of Tiki:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKr-WKT4aiA


That was COOL !! (and educational at the same time) Thanks Lucas.

I'd like to see them play a major Tiki event and piss everyone off.





Basically, they already have. Or at least bands just like them.

I am sure they are very nice people, but this is not polypop. This is party city tiki, with less then 2 degrees of separation of Jimmy Buffet. And unfortunately, THIS is what a large majority of people outside of tiki central (and perhaps some IN Tiki central) believe Tiki to be.




What?.....

Really....

After the whole Cribe fiasco, you're point is well taken. I tried to be gentle with him and tried to be open to listen, but in the end, a parrothead is a parrothead. Now, I have what is tantamount to a margaritaville hangover. Some people say there's a woman to blame, but it's my own damn fault. I won't make that mistake twice.


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 4089
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2011-03-09 3:07 pm   Permalink

Quote:

in the end, a parrothead is a parrothead.






Damn right! And their insidious culture IS making in-roads everywhere! They are coming......
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JOHN-O
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 16, 2008
Posts: 2720
From: Dogtown, USA
Posted: 2011-03-09 3:34 pm   Permalink

C'mon Lucas, the state of Tiki in the 21st-century is pretty darn good.

We have the "new" Don the Beachcomber, the "new" Tonga Hut, Tiki No, Trader Vic's DTLA (it could be improved, but the fact that it exists is promising), Frankie's Tiki Room, Forbidden Island, and Smuggler's Cove (a great superset of Tiki). I'm REALLY hopeful and looking forward to the "Tiki" lounge being built on the 3rd-floor of Clifton's Cafeteria which I expect will be a faithful homage to the pre-Tiki Clifton's Pacific Seas. It doesn't get any more old-school cool than that.

Also the New Cocktailian mixology boom is really blowing up, and how about the music? We have classic Exotica bands like Tikiyaki Orchestra and Martini Kings, and bands that have invented their own Tiki genres like Hula Girls and Ding Dong Devils. If "mainstream" events like Tiki Oasis seem to be getting too large for some people, then more smaller and more specialized events like Mojave Oasis take off. And I won't even get into the art.

Who cares what the general public's perception of Tiki is, when we (the purists?) can have our own private Tiki sandbox to play in? And that's what I think exists right now.

Yes it is sad to lose Beverly Hills Trader Vic's and (eventually) the Tonga Room, but net net don't you think Tiki culture is in better shape now than 10 years ago.

I know that "Party City" and Parrot Head Tiki horrifies you, but to me it just provides a great laugh. It's kind of like in the Punk Rock days, we were horrified by bands like ELO, Foreigner, Genesis, etc. Now that music is just great cheesy nostalgic fun.

(Hmm... Actually have we had this conversation before? I'm getting a sense of deja vu in writing it. Gotta love the circular arguments of TC).

Sorry Cammo for the derail, but the thread is winding down. Great job BTW.


[ This Message was edited by: JOHN-O 2011-03-09 15:41 ]


 
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telescopes
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 06, 2007
Posts: 570
From: Palm Springs
Posted: 2011-03-09 4:00 pm   Permalink

I think we need to add that the Bali Hai was updated and allowed to stand- and in even better shape then before. he

The updated Trader Vic's in Emeryville is a testament to staying power.

The Kon Tiki is still going strong.

Personally, I really dig the Scottsdale Trader Vic's. Think whatever you may about it. The patio is a killer

The Mai Kai is going strong. Hell, even New York has Tiki by the lake in St. George.

Portland has Thatch.

What am I missing....

PALM SPRINGS has an empty Reef Bar.

And soon, in September, we will have the LA Tiki Bar Crawl.
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King Bushwich the 33rd
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 10, 2005
Posts: 1442
From: Ling Cod Beach, CA 90803
Posted: 2011-03-09 11:42 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-03-06 22:14, bigbrotiki wrote:
The horror, the horror. That is so sad, indeed. Every Tikiphile's nightmare come true: A Sports Bar replacing an authentic Tiki Temple. Which, after surviving for decades, is irrevocably lost..



The trend started a long time ago.
Legends is a very famous sports bar and it opened in 1979 at 5236 E. 2nd Street in the Belmont Shore neighborhood of Long Beach, CA. Previously at this location was...



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Limbo Lizard
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 777
From: Aboard the 'Leaky Tiki', Dallas
Posted: 2011-03-10 06:02 am   Permalink

Behold... the GOLDEN STONED Glazed Oki Doki Mug!

Thanks, again, Cam

_________________
"The rum's the thing..."

[ This Message was edited by: Limbo Lizard 2011-03-10 12:27 ]


 
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Cammo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 1974
From: San Diego
Posted: 2011-03-10 12:33 pm   Permalink

Looks GOOD! The Thirsty Two Ouncer!!!!

 
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