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Tiki Central Forums » » General Tiki » » Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?
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Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?
AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2199
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 13 days ago; 11:45 am   Permalink

That's a good addition - MCM - yes! "The Incredibles" is on my to-watch list since I've only seen it once in its original theatrical release. I remember there are some great caricatures of real-life people in the film - Edna Mode, for example, and among others, is brilliant.

 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 4528
Posted: 12 days ago; 06:54 am   Permalink

Why Destroy Tiki Palaces?

I think it is hard to find the kind of love and dedication for the place you work or even the kind of pride in your job that there was back in the heyday of tiki.

The kind of work and extra effort needed for a place like the Kahiki is just nowhere to be found these days.

One of the new tiki joints I went to had those cheep plastic outdoor chairs for seating INSIDE!
The old tiki joints would not even use those outside on a patio, or in the backroom or office.

One place had no mint for the Mai Tais.

The old places would go far and wide to find the décor or make it themselves.
Now I mostly hear how cheaply they got some tiki online, this did not surprise me as they looked cheep.

The kind of class that people had back in the day is gone, think of that Mai Kai host seater guy at Mai Kai.
He has style and class plus pride in his work, and the place he works.

Some of the new tiki joints I have been to just don't have this. many say we should support any tiki joint to keep tiki alive but I feel that these type of not so great places just crap on what I loved about the old places and could taint the image and style that the old tiki joints had.

So in short the new places if done badly are just another nail in the coffin of cool old classic tiki and for me are not what I'm lookin for and they help defame tiki.

Why Destroy Tiki Palaces? because what made them great is getting harder and harder to find
and the product they sell is no longer that great.

But then Pride, quality, and even class and style is hard to find in any product or business these days.


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2199
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 12 days ago; 08:57 am   Permalink

Skip, you made some good points, and made me think... I would add that today the audience is very different as well. In mid-century America we had lots of veterans who easily rolled with out-of-the-way holes-in-the-wall from their travels, with a hodge-podge of furnishings within a fairly cohesive and identifiable theme. Today we see places which are often created from scratch, and it's very different because of how different the guests personal "connections" to that stuff is. Today's bar guests see entertainment and booze when they go. The mid-century bar guest had a greater degree of familiarity with, and connection to, the subject matter, and then they saw the entertainment and booze.

Cheers to you, sir!!!


 
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Or Got Rum?
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 507
From: Wisconsin
Posted: 12 days ago; 09:28 am   Permalink

Great points Skip, taken w/ validity as you are someone who has operated a food-service business.

Today IMHO, some of the "new" places offer plenty of "hip service"...um, I mean "lip service", where talk of original and true to spec classic Tiki and cocktails w/ very high "craft" prices are offered and when they are experienced or reviewed, they miss the mark....often. Again, beating that damn dead horse, talk of "service" is always blabbed about but quickly forgotten. Just as Skip was saying (and a convo w/ my Wife this morning about no one wanting to take over a very successful restaurant) people don't have (or don't want to have) the nut-busting work ethic these places require. It takes more than $ (although PLENTY is needed) it takes a desire to carve out a niche position in your market and keep pushing until you feel you maybe can see the forest through the trees, THEN, keep pushing harder.


 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 4528
Posted: 12 days ago; 10:35 am   Permalink

"I would add that today the audience is very different as well."

That is a great point, I often wonder if what we want in a bar restaurant is what most people don't want.

I for one see restaurants that people RAVE about that truly suck.
But then I am a good cook and my mom was a great cook so I have had good food and know it when I see/taste it.

Same with a drink, I have had the best boozes there is, and drinks from the Mai Kai and Tiki Ti so I've had the best.
So when you come at me with your 12 or 14 dollar hand crafted Mai Tai it better be dam good, cuz I've paid 6 bucks for a bad Mai Tai before and two bad Mai Tai is better than one ok hand crafted 12 or 14 dollar Mai Tai.

More drunkie = better.

PS at home I use very good booze and not the cheap stuff, and get Havana club for $36.00 bucks per bottle.
That would be three and a half hand crafted yuppie Mai Tai or one full bottle of Havana club 7 year.


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2199
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 12 days ago; 10:39 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-11-08 10:35, tikiskip wrote:
That is a great point, I often wonder if what we want in a bar restaurant is what most people don't want.
- and -
I for one see restaurants that people RAVE about that truly suck.



Yup, it's sad. Sometimes you just want to visit a nice tropical place where you can escape and chill with good drinks and have a conversation with who you're with. Now we can't seem to have a bar without sports or news TVs blaring, or distracting us. Thank the tiki gods for the exceptions out there!


 
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Or Got Rum?
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 507
From: Wisconsin
Posted: 12 days ago; 11:40 am   Permalink

"Now we can't seem to have a bar without sports or news TVs blaring, or distracting us."

..or, suck ass music too loud.


 
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mike and marie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 332
Posted: 12 days ago; 3:15 pm   Permalink

The devolution and then destruction of Tiki is nothing special.

In other words it's not something that happened just to Tiki. Everything has been changing, as it always does, and some things change for the worse. In the west, over the past half century (or, really, longer), a lot of factors or elements that would sustain Tiki or Tiki-like things that we like have been deteriorating and even outright going away. If things continue has they have been we can expect even more major, surprising changes to the world in the coming decade. Tiki was exotic, primal, tribal ... a perfect escape for a civilized, cultured and literate society. But that was then; now the west is more tribal and primal itself and Tiki just doesn't fit in. Look at the people in old photos of any good restaurants or lounges ... you can tell that they come from a different world ... a different civilization. It has ended. No architect or deep-pocketed investor can bring something like that back today. It's not a matter of constructing, collecting, or decorating. The people are the key factor and the one that's missing. The way to bring back Tiki palaces and fantastic places that are even better than anything that has come before is to change the surrounding civilization. So, how do you do that? Who knows. But do it, and you're golden.


 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 4528
Posted: 11 days ago; 04:48 am   Permalink

"Tiki palaces and fantastic places that are even better than anything that has come before is to change the surrounding civilization."

We do have a few successes in the new tiki joint arena as well though, places like Three Dots and a Dash and Forbidden island to name a few.

So it can be done right in this time and still thrive.
What places like the Kahiki had was the love gained by longevity.
That is they had been around so long people loved the place and would forgive many not so good things.

The food at the end was ok, and the drinks were depending on who made it strong, not so great, or good.

But it was fun.

Dam what would the rent be for a Kahiki or Mai Kai these days!

The official reason given for tearing down the Kahiki was it was in need of a lot of work so he sold it rather than repair it.

I think the reason was the million bucks he got for the place.
_________________


 
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Prikli Pear
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 04, 2017
Posts: 259
From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted: 11 days ago; 09:59 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-11-08 10:35, tikiskip wrote:
That is a great point, I often wonder if what we want in a bar restaurant is what most people don't want.

I for one see restaurants that people RAVE about that truly suck.



There's a new bar/restaurant here in New Braunfels, the Downtowner, that has gone with nightly themes for its drinks. They have Tiki Sundays, so The Wife and I went a couple weeks ago to check them out. The place is in an old rock shop (seriously--they sold minerals, semi-precious stones, geodes, amethyst etc.) with a lot of space. Unfortunately, they remodeled it with the industrial look so popular today--polished concrete floors, flat walls, unfinished ceiling with duct work exposed, etc. Nothing inherently wrong with that, except for the fact that it was LOUD. In these places even the smallest sound echoes around, so that you have to talk louder and louder just to be heard. Their tiki "decor" was a dozen paper accordion-style pineapples scattered around the place, along with some Party City leis. The drink menu was limited, with half a dozen less common tiki drinks (no Mai Tai, for example) and two bar originals that looked like they had potential. I can't recall what we ordered, but I do recall they were good. Not great, but they significantly exceeded my expectations. Good enough that we were inclined to order another round, but left instead. The place was so damn loud it was giving us both headaches.

The drinks were good, but there was zero atmosphere. We're not the type of folks who go to bars to drink, we go to relax and enjoy the atmosphere. For us, putting up with the noise and tension was not worth it for the good, reasonably-priced drinks. I made a foray to the restroom--one of the few quiet places there--and realized they were piping in reggae music over the PA. It's reggae, yeah, but I give them points for making the effort to switch it off the top 40 they normally play. But my larger point is that I couldn't even hear it in the main bar area. And there were younger 20-somethings there who were ordering these respectably-crafted tiki drinks and videoing each other with their phones as they raced to see who could drink theirs down the fastest. No. Just no. These aren't shots or slammers. They're defeating the entire purpose of tiki cocktails.

And here's the kicker: Just yesterday some of The Wife's friends were raving about how much they loved the place, and how they go there every chance they get. The Wife said she found the drinks good, but the atmosphere terrible. "Really?" they replied in surprise. "We hadn't noticed."

There you go.


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2199
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 11 days ago; 10:13 am   Permalink

======
On 2017-11-09 09:59, Prikli Pear wrote:
The Wife said she found the drinks good, but the atmosphere terrible. "Really?" they replied in surprise. "We hadn't noticed."

There you go.
======

Right on the nose - low standards of the general public is one of the problems. I have a similar problem with friends who love EVERY FREAKIN' MOVIE that comes out, and then they think I'm a hard-ass when I say a certain film sucked. (I can usually tell them in detail why it was bad.)

How can we turn this around? People are both very easy to please, and on top of that they have very low standards. They literally don't know what they don't know.


 
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Or Got Rum?
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 29, 2009
Posts: 507
From: Wisconsin
Posted: 11 days ago; 10:45 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-11-09 10:13, AceExplorer wrote:
======
On 2017-11-09 09:59, Prikli Pear wrote:
The Wife said she found the drinks good, but the atmosphere terrible. "Really?" they replied in surprise. "We hadn't noticed."

There you go.
======

Right on the nose - low standards of the general public is one of the problems. I have a similar problem with friends who love EVERY FREAKIN' MOVIE that comes out, and then they think I'm a hard-ass when I say a certain film sucked. (I can usually tell them in detail why it was bad.)

How can we turn this around? People are both very easy to please, and on top of that they have very low standards. They literally don't know what they don't know.




They are looking for the next shiny thing, or somewhere their friends deem "hip"....then it's on to something else.


 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 4528
Posted: 11 days ago; 11:34 am   Permalink

"The place was so damn loud it was giving us both headaches."

Ha! at the Windward Passage restaurant that we go to often it is not loud and you can talk in fact often people at the bar talk back and forth to each other like 15 feet away from each other.

BUT one night it did get loud I think there were some younger people there that night.
Well the bartender banged on the CO2 tank and yelled use your indoor voices!

I thought that was a bit much as it's not a dam Library.

It could have been me as I can get a bit loud when I drink, The wife said it was not me that time though.

_________________


 
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Prikli Pear
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 04, 2017
Posts: 259
From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted: 11 days ago; 12:56 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-11-09 11:34, tikiskip wrote:
I thought that was a bit much as it's not a dam Library.



In this case it was more of the space than the people. Even a modest volume echoes and amplifies in the hard-surfaced environment of the Downtowner. I've been other places like that, and I've been other places with loud crowds that are comfortable because the noise doesn't carry. Hale Pele was packed and noisy each time we went, but we could still carry on a conversation even if we couldn't quite make out what music was playing. There are some simple steps that can be taken to break up those hard surfaces and improve the acoustics, but that's never taken into consideration during remodels. Too many people just figure "That's the way it is."


 
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