FEATURES | MUSIC | BOOKS | DRINKS | FORUMS | GAMES | LINKS | ABOUT


advertise on Tiki Central

Celebrating classic and modern Polynesian Pop
  [Edit Profile]  [Edit Preferences]  [Search] [Sign Up]
[Personal Messages]  [Member List]  [Help/FAQ]  [Rules]  [Login]
Tiki Central Forums Creating Tiki Other Crafts Digital art discussion
Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 Next Page )
Digital art discussion
GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6866
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-02 4:09 pm   Permalink

So, GROG spent a LOT of years and hours drawing with pencil and paper. Now hand drawn animation is pretty much dead as far as feature films, and Computer animation is KING. You don't have to "inbetween" your extremes, the computer does that for you. You don't have to be a good draftsman to be a computer animator. You get some amazing images you'd never be able to get in hand drawn animation. You can do everything so much faster now on the computer. People have said,"It's just another tool for artists." But is it? The computer can allow a person who can't draw a stick figure to make ads and "art' in hours that trained artists 10 years ago took weeks to do.

Here's some examples. GROG did all these in a couple of hours this morning, and they required no artistic skill at all. Only a general knowledge of Photoshop.

GROG google "pretty girl" and find image of Jessica Alba.


GROG look at "Wallpapers" and grab this planet image:


GROG google perfume bottle:


Put 'em together, adjust the color on the planets in the background, a little blur around Jessica, add a glow behind the perfume bottle, and add some type. and viola, it's a perfume ad.


Maybe the art director doesn't like the background. GROG google "nebula", then plug it into the background. Move the type a little, and bang, in just a few minutes you've got a revised perfume ad.




No drawing at all and just a few basic Photoshop skills.

How about a movie poster.

Google Finding Nemo.

Google Finding Nemo logo.


Add posterization filter, and bam--- movie poster art.


Let's create some "art"!

Grab our Jessica Alba pic.


One filter, adjust a few sliders. Adjust the background color, and zip, bang, boom--- looks like silk screen art.


What if we did that to a lion?


What if we used a different filter on the lion photo and got this?


And then, what if we combined the two? Now we're making some art!


Say the art director comes up and says we need a picture of a redhead in that same pose as Jessica Alba, but we don't have the time or money to audition models, hire a photographer, book a studio to take pics?
A little push and pull in "liquify" in Photoshop, adjust the color here and there, and here's our new model. Didn't have to pay her, or photograph her, but here she is.


GROG not use ANY drawing skills GROG develop growing up. A trained monkey with a few Photoshop skills could do all that. Is he still an artist, and is it still art?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This artwork GROG do several months ago.

GROG come up with the idea for the Moai Madness art show at the Tonga Hut. GROG quickly knocked out a Moai silhouette in Photoshop. Add a topknot and some type and there's your flier.


You know, now that we're going to have the art show, we're going to need some art in the show. GROG already have this Moai, what if we make a background like those cheap abstract paintings/prints of landscapes you see in hotel lobbies and restaurants?


We'll put the Moai in there, slap a little color on him and there's our Moai art.


Kind of remind GROG of paint-by-numbers. What if we make it even more like paint by numbers by adding hilites and shadows?


What if we adjust the color, add some more Moai's and call it "Ocean Sintenels"? Now THAT's art.


What if we cropped the art and made it into the cover for Tiki Magazine, how would that look?


Maybe it might look better if it was brown.
[

Sure the computer is just another tool, but does it make it too easy to make ANYBODY look like a good artist? Does it make good artists lazier and less skillful. There are some amazing pieces of art being done on the computer, but more often then not, you can tell it's been done on the computer. Computer art seems to lack the "warmth" that hand drawn art has.

What do ya'll think?




_________________

GROG miss Tiki-Kate

[ This Message was edited by: GROG 2011-07-02 16:16 ]


 
View Profile of GROG Send a personal message to GROG      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
zerostreet
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Feb 06, 2010
Posts: 1948
From: http://www.zerostreet.com
Posted: 2011-07-02 7:54 pm   Permalink

I think it's as good a tool as any but I do agree with you that there is a certain warmth that usually (not always) is unattainable. The various effects and filters you ran through are there for you to use in photoshop but to be honest I never or very rarely use those. A lot of new digital artist rely on that drop down of effects and don't stray from them and anyone with some experience in PS will know exactly how it was done. And in my opinion those effects are what usually kill all warmth in a piece.

When I got bit by the Tiki bug a couple of years ago I was just using Illustrator and PS for everything and I enjoyed the hell out of it and am happy with that work. I think there is nothing wrong with creating all your art on these programs and I think to create good art on it you have to have some art skills. In my case, however, I was prodded to paint by a couple of close painter friends as well as by the words of Brad Parker here on TC and once I did that I never looked back. Even though my painting Cosmos At The Moon Palace is digital and I am very happy with the results (which by the was used no PS effects) I feel that I don't want create another digital painting again. I animate and design for Broadcast during the day and at the end of the day I can't wait to get to my brushes and acrylic!

Here's my aforementioned Cosmo along with a recent Cosmo painting that was done in acrylic. The first may look slicker and more iconic (to me anyway ) but I prefer the second in terms of overall feel.

Great topic for discussion Grog! And by the way that mermaid pencil drawing you posted a few weeks ago....you should paint that!









_________________

Tiki Tower
The Art of Robert Jimenez
http://www.tikitower.com

[ This Message was edited by: zerostreet 2011-07-02 19:55 ]


 View Profile of zerostreet Send a personal message to zerostreet  Email zerostreet Goto the website of zerostreet     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Bruddah Bear
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 07, 2011
Posts: 628
From: Los Angeles Basin, Westside
Posted: 2011-07-02 11:15 pm   Permalink


There are times when I look at some pieces of digital art it just looks so soulless, without life. Modern animation strikes me that way too sometimes.


Bear



 
View Profile of Bruddah Bear Send a personal message to Bruddah Bear      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
ZeroTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 825
From: Rohnert Park, California
Posted: 2011-07-02 11:26 pm   Permalink

Sometimes I use something Knocked out via computer to give me composition ideas, to cut back on the amount of times I have to re-paint something...
...And then I STILL have to re-paint the blasted thing.


~Zero


 
View Profile of ZeroTiki Send a personal message to ZeroTiki  Email ZeroTiki Goto the website of ZeroTiki     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
danlovestikis
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4748
Posted: 2011-07-03 12:18 am   Permalink

This was really interesting. One late night I went on Amazon.com and googled photoshop 7. I found books as cheap as 65 cents and $4 shipping. I now own 8 books, one day I'll see what they say meanwhile I have to get back to painting! Wendy
_________________


 
View Profile of danlovestikis Send a personal message to danlovestikis      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-03 12:37 am   Permalink

So I asked my computer this question, The computer said no.

 
View Profile of Chuck Tatum is Tiki Send a personal message to Chuck Tatum is Tiki      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6866
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2011-07-03 01:38 am   Permalink

GROG think for work the computer is great. Anything that can speed up production, make things more efficient, and cheaper and end up with better quality end product GROG all for that. But, when it comes to hanging pieces on GROG' wall, GROG would rather have art done by hand. GROG have plenty of prints and serigraphs, but sometimes you can't afford the $10,000 SHAG original, but you really like the piece so much you settle for the $250 print.

GROG has gone to figure drawing and there are people that show up and do figure drawing on their computer. After a 15 minute pose GROG have a nice charcoal drawing with the feet unfinished or the face or some part of the figure, where as the guy with the computer has a pretty nice color painting pretty much all rendered out. He can't hang it up on the wall until he hooks his computer to the printer, but he also doesn't need a flat file to hold all his artwork and he's not contributing to the destruction of trees in the Amazon forest.

It's hard being a cavemen in modern times. Used to we could turn on the TV and had three networks to pick from plus PBS. Now if you want to watch TV you have to turn the TV on and the cable box and Tivo your program that's on one of the many thousands of channels, but there's still nothing good to watch. Maybe some old Warner Bros. cartoons that are still entertaining after 50 years.


Technology, it's supposed to make things easier, but an hour of work on the computer and just before you finish your art, the program unexpectedly quits or your computer freezes and you haven't saved your work in the last 30 minutes. But, even starting over from scratch, you're still going to finish that art faster than if you were doing it with pencil and paper.

Love the computer. Hate the computer.


 
View Profile of GROG Send a personal message to GROG      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
danlovestikis
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4748
Posted: 2011-07-03 09:58 am   Permalink

A thermos can keep something hot or cold how does it know which to do?
A computer always knows when to freeze up to spoil our day how does it know?
Grog what is the meaning of life? Wendy
_________________


 
View Profile of danlovestikis Send a personal message to danlovestikis      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Zeta
Grand Member (2 years)  

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 2049
From: Atlantis/Basque Country/Spain/Mexico
Posted: 2011-07-03 10:25 am   Permalink

Nothing like the human touch. Never. No matter what. It has to be 100% man made to be called ART. In the near future when everyone is a "digital artist", old school, traditional artists will be highly sought after.
If an asteroid strikes earth tomorrow and all electronic technology is destroyed, I would still be able to make my stupid little drawings, even if it's with my own blood.
I don't like digital art. It's cold. "too clean/perfect" Lame. I like the the idea that a human being did every line in the comics I read. R. Crumb, P. Bagge, D Clowes, J. Ryan, M. Kellerman. Etc...
Stay primitivo artista friends!
F*** Computers.

Commercial art, publicity, hollywood movies, Business art, you can keep your photoshop. I'll keep my China Ink.


 
View Profile of Zeta Send a personal message to Zeta  Goto the website of Zeta     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
AlohaStation
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 27, 2004
Posts: 2142
From: So FL
Posted: 2011-07-03 10:42 am   Permalink

I feel your pain. As a graphic designer the computer is a required piece of equipment. When I first began my career everything was done by paste-up. I learn how to use and operate linotype machines to set type for paste-up. Using a stat camera and figuring out screen angles, combining those things with Ruby/Amberlith to create mechanicals, and ending up with matchprints. As technology progressed, so did my desire to learn these new technolgies. I watched as high-paid film strippers and fine photographers became unskilled labor and desperate for computer knowledge. And we are now looking at a job market that does not value experience over technical knowledge. We are in another cycle of digital evolution. Designers that have not kept up their skills in web and interactive media will be left behind. Design has become paperless and with that, design needs are changing as well. Pads and phones are taking over where books and personal conversations ruled. There is no need for the overhead of creating a bound book or printed brochures - when you can download it and store it without creating clutter. If you want it printed - print it yourself. Any company wants their product to be cheap to produce and sell. Taking away out-of-date processes is inevitable.

Is digital Art - "real" art? Only the person viewing it can make that decision. Personally I say - yes. The computer is a tool that allows more artistic freedom and creative expression to be be expressed in a faster medium. There are some artists that recieve big $$$ for their digital paintings. Would you buy an original digital painting? - probably not - unless you intend to use it in a digital format. The computer also allows artists to show their art to a larger audience.

My carving came out of a need to escape the digital world. Even now, when I tell people that I am both a designer and woodcarver I get bizarre looks and strange reactions. Very few people see that relationship between the artist and the designer. For me one is business and the other is fun - I'll let you figure out which is which. Some day when my kids are grown, I may fully embrace the fine artist - but till then I will continue to use the computer in a way that best suits me.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - so is the opinion about what is "ART".


 
View Profile of AlohaStation Send a personal message to AlohaStation  Goto the website of AlohaStation     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Zeta
Grand Member (2 years)  

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 2049
From: Atlantis/Basque Country/Spain/Mexico
Posted: 2011-07-03 11:25 am   Permalink

"There's nothing more human than machines." -Gustavo Cerati

I only like digital art in Science Fiction. District 9 blew my mind... but that's it. Terminator 2 was amazing too. But that's it.


 
View Profile of Zeta Send a personal message to Zeta  Goto the website of Zeta     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-03 11:33 am   Permalink

This is an old argument, but it comes down to the computer does not create art, the "Artist" does
A computer is a tool like a paint brush, if you have no talent, you are not going to get anything
that you could call art.

But it does help those who couldn't draw a straight line etc.
for Desktop publishing it does allow the creation of of better looking documents from just about anyone
which is what most of your examples really show Grog.

A good example is alot of Doug Hornes art is digital, but I see Art in what he does both in his computer work and
the pieces he does by hand.

My feeling is you still have to be an "artist" no matter what tools you use.



 
View Profile of Chuck Tatum is Tiki Send a personal message to Chuck Tatum is Tiki      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
little lost tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 12, 2006
Posts: 7581
From: Orange,CA-right near the Circle!
Posted: 2011-07-03 12:17 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2011-07-03 11:33, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:

My feeling is you still have to be an "artist" no matter what tools you use.




100% Agree with that!
Having all those half-ass artists with their computers
just makes us real artists keep on our toes...
Mankind has taken the fast track to ruin by using the computer as a crutch....
Example: We no longer retain or place value on what we learn
because it takes no effort to gather knowledge anymore..

No more scouring libraries or bookstores


just google and BAM! there it is....


This easy acccess could be what is destroying many art movements today....

Everybody seems to be cannibalizing from the same well....

Read some Books! Get a home library,a big one!
it's a reference collection that no one else has

and avoid the computer for image scouring when you can
because 5 million other "artists" are looking there!

Great topic Ernie!
Where do fannypacks fit into all this?






www.kenruzic.comWebsite ALMOST DONE! On FaceBook Too!
Categorized and Classified! http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/viewtopic.php?topic=35616&forum=21&start=0&173

[ This Message was edited by: little lost tiki 2011-07-03 23:10 ]


 View Profile of little lost tiki Send a personal message to little lost tiki  Email little lost tiki Goto the website of little lost tiki     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
MadDogMike
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 7295
From: The Anvil of the Sun
Posted: 2011-07-03 8:54 pm   Permalink

No matter how pure you think your art is, technology has crept in. So maybe ceramics is still a pure art, safe from technology? Not unless you mined your own clay, ground your own glazes, and fired it in an anagama kiln. No, I ordered my glazes from the internet, they were delivered UPS with a tracking number, and fired in a microprocessor controlled kiln. (OK, I'm too cheap to buy a microprocessor controlled kiln, just play along with me here)

I understand the issue of "just a tool" vs "no soul" but it's all in how you use that tool. If you take a 4 inch bruch and paint a wall white it is a serviceable wall but it has no soul because no part of your soul was put into it. Yet take that same brush and paint a mural, you have poured part of your life into it and it has soul. The same is true with the computer. You can take a stock photo and apply a couple of quick filters to it, you have a serviceable image for a print ad but it has not soul. Or you can take that same computer and program to create art by putting your soul into it. Alternatively, the human touch and the lack of technology do not automatically breathe life to art. The finest canvas, paint, and brushes in the hands of an uninspired artist still produces crap.


_________________
When you hurry through life, you just get to the end faster.
Pirate Ship Tree House

 View Profile of MadDogMike Send a personal message to MadDogMike  Goto the website of MadDogMike     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Chuck Tatum is Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2011-07-03 9:18 pm   Permalink

Well said MDM & I share your point of view.

 
View Profile of Chuck Tatum is Tiki Send a personal message to Chuck Tatum is Tiki      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 Next Page )
U-Moderate:
  
v1.5

[ About Tiki Central | Contact Tiki Central | Advertise on Tiki Central ]
(c) 2000-2014 Tikiroom.com (tm), Tiki Central (tm)

Credits & copyright infomation