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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Drinks and Food Converting 151 Demerara into 80 Demerara
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Converting 151 Demerara into 80 Demerara
CincyTikiCraig
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 368
From: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Posted: 2012-02-03 9:58 pm   Permalink

Gents,

Hi, it's been a while since I've posted here at Tiki Central. The only Lemon Hart (and the only Demerara rum period) that's distributed in this area if the LH 151 (I know, poor me, right?). Problem is that I need way more of the 80 Demerara for everyday use, and I'm tired of mail ordering it. The 80 Dem is nothing but the 151 that's been diluted by the addition of distilled water to bring it down to 40% abv (Alcohol By Volume, which is 1/2 of the "proof"). So I want to take the LH 151 that I can buy locally and dilute it with distilled water down to 80. Can someone help me with my math regarding how much water to add to a 750ml bottle of 151to bring it down to 80 proof?

If I'm calculating correctly, dividing 75.5 (the abv of the 151) by 40 (abv of the 80 proof) = 1.88. That's 88%.
Multiplying 25.5 (ounces in a standard 750ml bottle) 88% = 22.35.
So would adding 22.35 ounces of distilled water to a 750 bottle of LH 151 yield me a bottle of standard 80 proof LH?

Any help is greatly appreciated!



[ This Message was edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-03 22:05 ]

[ This Message was edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-03 22:59 ]


 
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thePorpoise
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 23, 2011
Posts: 1220
From: Tampa Bay
Posted: 2012-02-03 11:04 pm   Permalink

I was an English major, I'll handle this...

25.5 total oz, times 75.5% alcohol= 19.25 oz alcohol in the bottle of 151 proof.

X total oz, times 40% alcohol= 19.25 oz alcohol in the pitcher of resulting 80 proof rum.

X = 19.25 divided by .40 = 48.1 total oz in the flagon of home-made 80 proof rum.

48.1 - 25.5= 22.6 oz water needed to reduce the original bottle of 151 proof to an 80 proof bucket of Guyanese rum.






 
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CincyTikiCraig
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 368
From: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Posted: 2012-02-03 11:32 pm   Permalink

Thanks Porpoise! We Political Science majors suck at math!!

 
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MadDogMike
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 7295
From: The Anvil of the Sun
Posted: 2012-02-04 06:25 am   Permalink

Plus you end up with almost twice as much hootch - BONUS!
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Limbo Lizard
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Joined: Aug 24, 2006
Posts: 688
From: Aboard the 'Leaky Tiki', Dallas
Posted: 2012-02-04 08:19 am   Permalink

Before you do this with a whole bottle, I suggest mixing 2.5 oz. LH151 and 2.25 oz. water, and taste testing against LH80 - if you have any left. Otherwise, test against your best recollection.
I'm just concerned you might find the flavor over-diluted, along with the ABV.

I had contemplated a similar experiment, but in the opposite direction - boosting from 80 to 151, using Everclear. I couldn't get 151, here, until very recently.
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Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2012-02-04 1:27 pm   Permalink

You are not just reducing the alcohol content, but reducing the flavor (Watering down)
you will not get the same results as just buying a bottle of El Dorado 12
to use instead of the LH80, so your math is flawed, sorry.


 
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CincyTikiCraig
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 368
From: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Posted: 2012-02-04 2:48 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2012-02-04 13:27, Chuck Tatum is Tiki wrote:
You are not just reducing the alcohol content, but reducing the flavor (Watering down)
you will not get the same results as just buying a bottle of El Dorado 12
to use instead of the LH80, so your math is flawed, sorry.



I'm not trying to recreate El Dorado 12; I use El Dorado 5yr or 80 proof LH (which is 4-5 years of age) as my standard Dem pour. The 80 proof LH version is just the 151 with water added to dilute it to bottling proof, so this should work. The 151 is essentially 'rum concentrate'; like most spirits distilled in column stills, rum comes off the still at a very high proof (190ish for most brands) and distilled water is added to bring the spirits down to their bottling proof. Spirits distilled in pot stills are typically distilled to below 160 proof, and water is added to bring them to bottling proof as well ( unless they are to be sold at full proof, as you see in "Barrel Proof" Bourbons for example). My only issue was the math involved in figuring out how much water to add to approximate 80 proof.

[ This Message was edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-04 14:51 ]


 
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rev_thumper
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Joined: Oct 10, 2007
Posts: 366
From: Koala Kabana, New England
Posted: 2012-02-04 3:33 pm   Permalink

Here is a timely discussion of this challenge with Ed Hamilton.

http://www.killingtime.com/Pegu/2012/02/04/an-interview-with-ed-hamilton-us-importer-of-lemon-hart-151-among-others/

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CincyTikiCraig
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 368
From: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Posted: 2012-02-04 4:21 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2012-02-04 15:33, rev_thumper wrote:
Here is a timely discussion of this challenge with Ed Hamilton.

http://www.killingtime.com/Pegu/2012/02/04/an-interview-with-ed-hamilton-us-importer-of-lemon-hart-151-among-others/



Thank you for posting that link Rev, it's required reading for Tiki cocktail fans everywhere!



 
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Chuck Tatum is Tiki
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Joined: May 12, 2011
Posts: 1674
From: Southern Cailifornia
Posted: 2012-02-04 5:15 pm   Permalink

And a quote from said article:

"Ive found you get the best results from using a ratio of 2 parts LH151 to 1 part water to make up the required volume of LH80 in the original recipe. Im willing to accept the hardship of a slightly higher alcohol content to reach the flavor I remember."


 
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CincyTikiCraig
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 368
From: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Posted: 2012-02-05 09:46 am   Permalink

I asked this question of The Man himself, Ed Hamilton, aka The Minister of Rum, who imports Lemon Hart to the USA:

http://www.ministryofrum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5778

Here's what he said:

"That is very close Craig,. If it was 160 proof, twice what you see on your store shelves, you could just add 750ml to reduce the alcohol by half. But since this is ((151/80 *750)-750)/29.57 ml/ounce = 22.5 ounces.

How the water is added is important. You could just add this in a larger bottle and shake it up, but I would suggest adding an ounce every few hours and stirring it as you go. This is a chemical reaction.

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has tried both methods.

It doesn't look good for getting Lemon Hart 80 any time soon in the US. "

He also added this note about the type of water that should be used to dilute the 151 down to 80 proof:

"My water of choice would be limestone filtered water like that found in Kentucky. I would avoid anything with chlorine in it such as most municipal water. Deionized is good, but the real test is to try it and taste it. Then you will taste the differences for yourself. Definitely avoid hard water from a municipal supply."

This is great news for Demerara lovers who have access to LH 151.


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thePorpoise
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Joined: Jan 23, 2011
Posts: 1220
From: Tampa Bay
Posted: 2012-02-05 11:39 am   Permalink

oh yeah, i meant to say +/- .1 oz...

 
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thePorpoise
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 23, 2011
Posts: 1220
From: Tampa Bay
Posted: 2012-02-05 11:41 am   Permalink

what i've done where a drink calls for 80 proof demerara and i've only got 151 proof (navy grogs), is use about 3/4 of the recipe amount so that i still get a lot of the flavor without doubling the alcohol i'm using.

 
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simplydlacruz
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Feb 05, 2012
Posts: 35
Posted: 2012-02-08 10:26 am   Permalink

Aloha Cincy, did you run your experiment yet? How did it turn out?

 
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CincyTikiCraig
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 31, 2009
Posts: 368
From: Cincinnati, Ohio USA
Posted: 2012-02-08 9:31 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2012-02-08 10:26, simplydlacruz wrote:
Aloha Cincy, did you run your experiment yet? How did it turn out?



As a matter of fact, I am running the experiment as I write this. I experimented with diluting a small sample of LH151 tonight and the results are highly encouraging. I picked up a new bottle of LH151 today. I added .8oz of bottled spring water to 1oz of LH151 and shook it to mix. I'm trying the diluted LH it against some ElDo5 right now, and frankly the diluted LH blows the ElDo5 away in terms of sheer flavor. Where the ElDo5 has sweetness but lacks smokiness and richness, the diluted LH has smoke, spice, 'funk' (I mean that in a good way!), and the rich sweetness of classic Demerara rum on the finish. I can't wait to try this in a Navy Grog.

The water is somewhat detectable in the diluted LH151, and the Eldo5 has a (very) slightly better mouthfeel, but I think that when the LH & water are mixed correctly (slowly, a little bit at a time, and stirred as per Ed Hamilton's directions) the result will be a more than acceptable replacement for the mail order ElDo5 in my cocktails.

I'm going to take half the bottle of LH151 and incorporate the bottled spring water into a decanter very slowly over the next couple of days. I'll post the results after this weekend's round of cocktails.

Mahalo,

Craig

[ This Message was edited by: CincyTikiCraig 2012-02-08 22:09 ]


 
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