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Tiki Central Forums » » Creating Tiki » » Other Crafts » » News and Troubles of Jürka's Tiki Factory
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News and Troubles of Jürka's Tiki Factory
Jürka
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Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-06-18 3:13 pm   Permalink



 
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Jürka
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Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-06-20 1:45 pm   Permalink

Today I was thinking that time wasting is not the smartest idea and started to make a mold for Lono also... So, the bottom part is poured today. Should have done it days ago...

 
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Jürka
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-06-28 11:15 am   Permalink

Updating My Tiki Factory News...

Lono got his mold. It's ready, opened and drying... Some very little pieces broke off, I glued them back, I guess it's totally ok mold to use... There may be very little pieces of glue around glued parts, I hope it will not be a problem (the same as it was with filler that the clay stuck on it)...


Then... Kanaloa is starting to become alive... I glued together woods whitch I'm gonna shape round and so on... Back in beginning! Also, if the length of wood is enough, maybe I also try to make little skull-shaped shot-mug... Simple, but nice one...


And... Now the next guy, Ku, gets his last part of mold tomorrow... So far it looks like this...


And... also... today I made a pretty big outgoings and ordered Botz glazes for Kumuhonua, Lono and Ku... Four different 800 ml glazes... costs something over 90 euros... Getting tough... It takes somewhile till it arrives from Germany, meanwhile I should make first portion of clay-guys and make the first firing...

The problem is that slip-casting method... I mix my clay with water, I pour it in, I slip it out... and all that comes out, I can't use it any more, because then I don't know the exact relation, how much water, how much powder... I guess the thickness of the mug's edge depends on it... And the question is following: Is the shrinking size of clay-guy depending on how much water it has inside while pouring?


 
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MadDogMike
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 7252
From: The Anvil of the Sun
Posted: 2013-06-28 12:39 pm   Permalink

I just did a quick stop in here on my way out of town, as far as I know you can't just add water to clay to make slip. It needs a flocculant or deflocculant or something. I buy my slip ready made but remember something about that in school. I don't know what that chemical is or how much you need but do some research. If you have trouble finding that info get back to me
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VanTiki
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 1015
From: Hawaii
Posted: 2013-06-28 12:54 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-06-28 12:39, MadDogMike wrote:
I just did a quick stop in here on my way out of town, as far as I know you can't just add water to clay to make slip. It needs a flocculant or deflocculant or something.



MadDog is (as always) correct
You need to add a deflocculant to keep the particles of clay evenly suspended and dispersed in the water. Here is a great article about mixing your own casting slip that uses Sodium Silicate as a deflocculant:
http://www.lagunaclay.com/support/art-of-slipmaking.php

I have admit - I've never done any slip casting myself, but I have read a lot about it Best of luck!

Henrik "VanTiki"
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Jürka
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Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-06-28 1:10 pm   Permalink

Lordy-Lord... So many difficult words... I have special slip-casting clay, not a modelling clay... I think, I guess it has everything inside whatever it needs?

 
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VanTiki
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Nov 25, 2005
Posts: 1015
From: Hawaii
Posted: 2013-06-28 1:33 pm   Permalink

oh! Ok - If the powdered clay you have was made for slip casting, I think you are correct in that it has everything it needs mixed in. Can't hurt to try it
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Jürka
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Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-06-28 2:06 pm   Permalink

Yeap... Only thing they say about it... is that it is recommended to add some formsil and plastificator... I really don't know about them, but I've tried slip-casting once and I really didn't need anything more... Everything was just alright... except relation of water and clay-powder... This time I think I'll make 50/50 water/powder...

 
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MadDogMike
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 7252
From: The Anvil of the Sun
Posted: 2013-06-29 4:13 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-06-28 12:54, VanTiki wrote:
MadDog is (as always) correct...



Thanks Henrik, I have a bunch of useless info floating around in my head

Jürka, you say that everything comes out when you pour the slip out? That's what make me think there is a lack of deflocculant. Here in the US we have ready-made liquid slip available so I have never used dry slip mix. I looked up dry slip mix and the 2 I found DO NOT have the deflocculant added to the dry powder: From the
Laguna site "To make liquid slip for casting into plaster molds, these bodies require mixing with water and deflocculants such as soda ash, sodium silicate or dispersal/Darvan". From the Byrne's site "just add the prescribed amount of water and deflocculants (we supply the soda ash and sodium silicate - No Charge)." You might check with your supplier and see if you can find out if it includes the deflocculant or not.

Other than that, the wall thickness would depend on -
1) The amount of water in the slip mix. I use my slip a little less thick than heavy cream or yogurt. Some people use a viscosity meter, others just "eyeball it"
2) The amount of time the slip is left in the mold. Probably 1 hour minimum, 2 hours usually gives a nice wall thickness.
3) The dryness of your plaster mold, it needs to be bone dry.

Some other factors could include
1) The thickness of your mold wall, should be at least 3 cm in the thinnest place (1 inch or more). From the pictures yours look fine.
2) The temperature and relative humidity when you are pouring
3) They say that the purity of the water you mix your slip with can matter and that too much chlorine can affect it. If your water is heavily chlorinated, you can let the water sit out in a big open bowl for a few days and most of the chlorine will dissapate. (old fish aquarium trick)

Hope that helps.
PS - Holy crap - glazes cost you an arm and a leg!
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Jürka
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-06-30 03:20 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-06-29 16:13, MadDogMike wrote:
Quote:

On 2013-06-28 12:54, VanTiki wrote:
MadDog is (as always) correct...



Thanks Henrik, I have a bunch of useless info floating around in my head

Jürka, you say that everything comes out when you pour the slip out? That's what make me think there is a lack of deflocculant. Here in the US we have ready-made liquid slip available so I have never used dry slip mix. I looked up dry slip mix and the 2 I found DO NOT have the deflocculant added to the dry powder: From the Laguna site "To make liquid slip for casting into plaster molds, these bodies require mixing with water and deflocculants such as soda ash, sodium silicate or dispersal/Darvan". From the Byrne's site "just add the prescribed amount of water and deflocculants (we supply the soda ash and sodium silicate - No Charge)." You might check with your supplier and see if you can find out if it includes the deflocculant or not.

Other than that, the wall thickness would depend on -
1) The amount of water in the slip mix. I use my slip a little less thick than heavy cream or yogurt. Some people use a viscosity meter, others just "eyeball it"
2) The amount of time the slip is left in the mold. Probably 1 hour minimum, 2 hours usually gives a nice wall thickness.
3) The dryness of your plaster mold, it needs to be bone dry.

Some other factors could include
1) The thickness of your mold wall, should be at least 3 cm in the thinnest place (1 inch or more). From the pictures yours look fine.
2) The temperature and relative humidity when you are pouring
3) They say that the purity of the water you mix your slip with can matter and that too much chlorine can affect it. If your water is heavily chlorinated, you can let the water sit out in a big open bowl for a few days and most of the chlorine will dissapate. (old fish aquarium trick)

Hope that helps.
PS - Holy crap - glazes cost you an arm and a leg!




This is the instruction by seller of the clay:
http://www.loovuspood.ee/files/Valumasside%20valmistamisjuhend.pdf
My clay is GM. It is necessary to include water and clay-powder and recommended formsil and plastificator. Those two I don't use (too expensive). No, I don't have problem that all the clay slips out. Thickness of wall looks alright...

I made a slip-cast yesterday. I put 1 kg powder to 1 litre of water. I think maybe I should make it just a little bit more liquid. But the biggest problem that happened was that I think the clay and water was not mixed propably. It looked alright, but after I slipped it out, I saw that walls were not solid, hard pieces or something... So, today I try another slip-cast and try to mix it longer with better instrument and maybe use little bit more water.

1) I try to measure everything because I want it to come out every time exactly the same. I eyeball the first time, measured, and next times I use same relation.
All the yogurts are different! Some are like drink, others are like food, most of them somewhere between...
2) Min 1 hour??? Is it really necessary? I have read somewhere that half an hour is ok and that's how I've done it and had no problems. I'm afraid that if it's longer, it gets too stoned and would not come out at all.
3) My plaster mold has been drying for at least month, maybe li'l longer... I guess it should be enough? It looks dry I'd say. Lightweight.


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Tiki Shark Art
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Aug 31, 2006
Posts: 3483
From: The volcanic Big Island of Hawaii
Posted: 2013-06-30 05:41 am   Permalink

Jürka ~ Hope this works out... really a great story following this so far... amazing how much goes into production. I have so much respect for your drive. IT's a beautiful design. It'll be worth it! Can't wait to see the next step! Thanks for sharing all this... very inspirational.

 
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danlovestikis
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4650
Posted: 2013-06-30 07:52 am   Permalink

I always learn from my mistakes. By sharing here and having MadDogMike and others write I'm learning a lot. Good design I hope today goes well, Wendy
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MadDogMike
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 7252
From: The Anvil of the Sun
Posted: 2013-06-30 08:27 am   Permalink

I knew when I posted that yogurt comment it was going to get me into trouble, not very scientific

Jurka, I'm having trouble understanding where your problem lies. "I saw that walls were not solid, hard pieces or something..." Were there places where no clay stuck to the mold and there was no ceramic wall there? Maybe a picture would help? The recommended Formsil 113 that you don't add is the deflocculant we were talking about, I'm not sure how it would work without that. I can't figure out what the Plastifikaator CJ is, some sort of plastifier or wetting agent usually used in plaster.

I slip cast a piece yesterday afternoon and left it in the mold for not quite 2 hours, wall thickness is about 3/8 inch or 10 mm which is about what I like. As far as it turning hard in the mold, I have never had that problem. After pouring the excess slip, I let it set in the mold for about 14 hours then carefully removed the mold - it is still too soft to handle and will need to dry out of the mold for several hours.


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Jürka
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-06-30 4:01 pm   Permalink

The problem was that in the clay there were many bulges. I really don't know if these were air bubbles or pieces of clay which didn't mix with water... Anyway... Yesterday's slip-cast had too thick walls, some bad holes (due to air bubbles) and those bulges... I tried to open it, no problem, but when I tried to take the clay-man out of the mold, well, the bottom part was too soft and everything was f*cked up... It wasn't good anyway... I could wait, but I wanted to make the new one... So, heck with it...

So... Today I made a new slip-cast... This time I did 1,2 litres of water and 1 kg of clay-powder. It got a lot of mixing, very carefully and very long... So, no notmixed clay-pieces any more... I tried to kill all the air bubbles and everything was fine, but after pouring I saw some tiny holes (I guess air bubbles) in the walls... I killed some of them, but then some new ones came up... So... F*ck! I hope there's no bubbles inside the clay and I hope there's no bubbles in the front... Maybe the glaze will fill them and nothing will be seen. The walls are not perfectly straight, but... still looks good (except those tiny bubbles)... This clay-guy got much better every way, but I'm little bit afraid that I glued some little pieces back to the mold and I did it just few hours before slip-casting and I'm afraid those pieces will be stuck to clay-guy... But... That's not too big problem... I will glue them back and then I'm gonna use super-attack...

Tomorrow I will not open the mold, I will wait at least 3 days... It's too wet and soft...

I'm thinking about that difficult-word formsil thing... What exactly it gives? "...to keep the particles of clay evenly suspended and dispersed in the water." I understand that it helps to mix clay with water?

Anyway... What else did I do today? I round-shaped Kanaloa's woodpiece and also woodpiece for skull's shotmug... I would start drawing Kanaloa right now, but I'm dead tired and I've lost the drawing of my idea (which dog tore off from my notebook, but it's still there... somewhere...), so... not today... But this will be very soon when I'm starting carving again...


 
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Jürka
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Posts: 78
From: Estland
Posted: 2013-07-04 4:16 pm   Permalink

So... What has been done for now...

Here is the picture of Ku and his mold. Got done pretty well... I'm satisfied with it.


I poured one additional mold for Kumuhonua, just for to reduce time of making clay-guys. I started the next bag of plaster and this plaster ain't same as plaster as was the previous plaster... Again... Stoned in few seconds... and lot of bubbles... So... I'm afraid this mold is f*cked up... Plaster got stoned in the time while pouring... Oh, Lordy-Lord... So the connecting part of two front parts of mold is in one side now, because plaster was stoned before it reached the middle line. Lordy-Lordy-Lord... And I really think it is so bubbled that maybe it is not usable.

But the biggest problem is those bubbles in clay. I opened the new clay-guy... Walls are pretty wide, maybe near 1 cm... and I'm pretty sure there may be many bubbles inside, so I'm afraid I cannot put it in fire... It would explode. I still exercised on it. I f*cked up the bottom. I pushed that wooden ring to the bottom too hard, so the bottom was little bit ruined, so I tried to take it out again from inside and f*cked up little bit more, so it's not so nice and clean anymore, but I put some water inside and tried to make it good. Well, not too bad, maybe almost ok. Anyway, that wooden-ring stuff is pretty not-so-easy. I don't have any other idea, so I guess I will use that ring in future too, but must be very careful. Also I tried to fill some bubble-holes with very wet clay... I guess they may be ok, but maybe not. Anyway, I guess I will not put it in fire.
But the big question is that what I'm gonna do with next clay-guys... Maybe that plastificator would help in this question??? There always be some bubbles that ruins everything...


Kanaloa and skull... I also glued already woods for Kane, but I was too hardfisted with glue and now there's empty spaces between woods... Well, this is problem of future, I don't think about it right now.
Here's Kanaloa and skull drawn... Simple, but the way it has to be.


 
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