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Tiki Central Forums » » Tiki Central Ohana » » Where are the first TCers today?
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Where are the first TCers today?
mike and marie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 340
Posted: 2017-03-25 10:09 pm   Permalink

Quote:

Humuhumu wrote:

Here I am to toss my late-to-the-party post on the pile. Hello! I'm still pretty darned into Tiki in a heavy way, though I'm not around Tiki Central nearly as much.



Hey Humuhumu! I'm glad you replied---you're exactly the kind of person I was wondering about: a TC oldtimer who is now on Facebook, and not really so much here.

For whatever hundred reasons, I just can't get myself to do Facebook. For one thing, I see too much division there. Topics that are forbidden on TC are permitted if not encouraged there and it leads to no good. We know too many people who decided to end good friendships over something so dumb as having a different opinion. Not good.

FB will remain popular, but who knows how long that will last. I like Gott's theorem a lot. Applying it to Facebook, I really don't think it has all that much time left. People may have invested much of their lives on the site (in the past 5-7 years, that is), but they don't own any of it, they can't get it back, there's no guarantee any of it will be accessible in the future, and sooner or later people will wise up to that. Like you say, it's all ephemeral.

I use Slack ... just a few years ago it didn't even exist, and now in a group I'm on there's a large set of people who are on it basically 24-7, all on their phones. Well, we're finally leaving it for an open source system that we're hosting ourselves and that we can control---which is one of the greatest assets that TC has.


Quote:

The elephant in the room: how much longer can Tiki Central last? What will come of it? I'm reluctant to put my tiki-information-sharing energy into a site that is at risk of total collapse. It's a great repository of information that can't be found anywhere else, but what happens when it disappears? I've agonized over this, but I've also come to terms with it.



I don't think we have to give up on TC if we don't want to---and I don't want to.

If we don't do anything at all, then we can expect it to collapse and then disappear.

So let's do something...


Quote:

But I don't do it here, either, because I know how the sausage is made, and I know there's a huge risk of Poof! It's gone here, as well. (For a taste of that, just look at all of the dead image links on some of the best old threads.) So, I do it on Critiki.

(I've moved Critiki off of the server it used to share with Tiki Central, it's now on a much more robust infrastructure. The move of O-M to a similar setup is underway right now.)



You were (are?) pretty good friends with Hanford, right? So coming from you, this comment makes me a little bit nervous. Do you know how many backups there are of the TC database?

I've recently run sites on a server using TC's host and am familiar with its shortcomings.

I'm bummed by the loss of images here on old threads too. But I don't recall any of them actually being hosted here on TC---aren't they all old external imgur and photobucket type links?


 
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mike and marie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 340
Posted: 2017-03-25 10:23 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-03-25 06:53, Swanky wrote:

[TC] should be placed in a trust with managers and funded to live forever. There should be 6-10 people, probably best to be developers who can maintain the php code, etc., who are in charge of keeping it alive. The domain should be paid for in 10 year increments or more, along with the hosting. Hosting is probably $100 a year, mine is. Domains are $10-15 a year. For $2000 you could insure TC exists for 10 years. You get people like Humu and me and Hanford and others who can manage the code, the backups, the web stuff on a board and as long as 1 or 2 of us give a crap to spend the time on it, it will continue for decades regardless.



Man, we are on the exact same wavelength here. This kind of thing has already been done very successfully for online ventures. People holding digital assets have had attorneys put a Revocable Living Trust together with an account in the name of the trust. (Tiki Central Foundation?) And then the assets are managed by the trust and at the same time are the beneficiary of the trust (if in this case it's Hanford etc). They name in the trust document who will be the new trustee when they can't, they outline how assets will be managed, and so it goes on ...


Quote:

Because FB manipulates traffic and prevents your posts from being seen by a lot of people to try to get you to pay them to show it to more people.



Yeah, that's so horrible. I hate FB!




I really appreciate the PMs that came in the last couple days, all of them. Only one I couldn't reply to, but assure you I'm working on it!

[ This Message was edited by: mike and marie 2017-03-25 22:33 ]


 
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mike and marie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 340
Posted: 2017-03-25 10:26 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-03-25 07:02, Humuhumu wrote:
I can't get into the details because it's not my story to tell, but unfortunately it's not quite as simple as it appears from the outside. TC has some mods done to it that make this otherwise reasonable proposal exceedingly difficult. Believe me, when I say I've agonized over this, I mean it.




Difficult... but not impossible? Am really curious now. Didn't phpBB 3.2.x just come out? Are the mods still necessary? In other words what would break in the upgrade?


 
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Humuhumu
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 3691
From: San Francisco
Posted: 2017-03-25 10:42 pm   Permalink

Yes, H and I remain close, our lives have drifted off in different directions, but we're still in regular contact and will forever hold much love for each other. I really can't get into the specifics of the challenges, because, again, it's not my story to tell. There are a number of issues, some the obvious, small ones, other ones are bigger & trickier. But now we're talking about someone else's thing, and that's getting uncomfortable for me. H knows I'm here to help if/when the time comes that he's ready to tackle it, as is my husband (Rich is also tech heavy and has lended a hand when issues have come up).

In general, TC-specific questions aside, I think it's smart to have information spread out across multiple resources.

(You'll laugh, but I'm still smarting at the loss of the Bonanza World website. It had the best episode guide for all the old Bonanza episodes!)

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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 4553
Posted: 2017-03-26 09:07 am   Permalink

“tikiskip, your lamp work is fantastic and more folks should know about it—TC lifespan question aside, it's worth thinking about how you could be sharing what you've done in other places.’

Thanks Humu!
And I do try to put my lights out in other places to be seen but it would be better to join other types of media.
It blows me away how many people have posted my stuff on Instagram.
I also have a book of my own that I think might be the one thing that lasts over the years, hard copy old school hold it in your hand info.

I just waste so much time on TC Don’t know if I want to add more internet time wasters.

“In general, TC-specific questions aside, I think it's smart to have information spread out across multiple resources.”

Man with all the TC info it would be hard to do that all over again.
Look at the books and even TV stuff that the people just came here and grabbed the info easy peezzy.

That thing about the Grass Skirt catching fire was never told of, Bill told me I told TC and even your site and BAM, everybody talks about it now.
Some of the stuff Bill talked about his daughter was sitting there, and said she had never heard of.

Even the rum Kahiki label Jeff found two, Gave me one, I made copies (I’m sure that pissed off some people) BUT what did that do?
It promoted the legend of the Kahiki, and it told people “Damn there was a Kahiki Rum!”
I gave away WAyyy more of those than I sold, don’t think I broke even on the printing.
Really angry people think everything you do is for the money.

Look at Kahiki tiki stuff on eBay it sells really well, I think that is in large part because of the early detailed documentation of all things Kahiki on TC.

This has been some great info posted here and more TCers need to get involved because when you look up say tiki or tiki mug their stuff does not come up that much if at all.
Hate to see all that art they worked on gone when TC goes.

Of course they will be quick to remind you they have been in Tiki Mag.


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hanford_lemoore
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 23, 2002
Posts: 1874
From: Tiki Central
Posted: 2017-03-26 6:48 pm   Permalink

Hey everyone!

I'll try to address some of the comments in this topic. First off, for those who don't know, I'm the cofounder and current owner on Tiki Central, but I've been hands off for it for more than a few years now. So here it goes:

How much longer can Tiki Central last?

It is in no danger of disappearing. While I have not done much to advance the tech, I have definitely kept the lights on, worked on anti-spam hacks when required, and have kept the information it holds continuing to be available to the public a main priority.

I have had many offers to sell TC, and I've always refused. I can't help but think about Dana Countryman's Cool & Strange Music magazine, a magazine he put a lot of love into. He sold it to someone whose intention was to keep it going ... but another issue never, ever came out.

I don't want to sell TC to someone with good intentions, and then be handcuffed when they screw it up somehow. Besides, I have never fully felt like Tiki Central was mine to sell. The website belongs to me, but it's not what makes it special.

But what about the images that were lost?

Another example of not-being-in-control coming back to haunt us. We were using Shutterfly for image hosting, which was all well and good. But then Myspace happened, and people were posting Shutterfly links on Myspace, and it was driving up Shutterfly's bandwidth costs. So Shutterfly changed how their URLs work and broke all of our images.

Also, we've had other people hosting images with their own galleries, who eventually shut it down and all those links broke too. There's even been other Tiki forums that people invested years of their lives in, that apparently the owners just shut down abruptly, and everyone lost thousands of posts and photos.

I don't ever want that to happen to TC because I sold it or gave it to other people. And AFAIK we've not lost any images that were uploaded to Tiki Central proper.

So, why doesn't it work well on mobile? Why have you not upgraded it?

So, when I said I wanted to keep it myself so nothing happens to it .... I don't mean literally nothing. But the web has grown beyond what it used to be and I simply don't have the coding skills and the time to give it the proper attention it deserves.

But on the flipside .... there's something to be said for keeping things the way they are. When the heyday of the Tiki Bar faded, their decor got "updated" and themes changed. Even our beloved Trader Vic's in Emeryville painted the ceiling white in hopes to lighten the decor and attract more of an audience. And even when I made tiny changes to TC, I heard grumbling from some users (I remember a font size change that pissed a lot of people off, for example)

So in a way I've come to view Tiki Central in the same light as classic Tiki Bars. It's something that should remain a product of its time, representative of its own heyday. It should get proper upkeep, but not change significantly from what it has always been.

What would you think if you came to visit your favorite Tiki Bar, and low and behold, it looked totally different? How would you feel?

Now, what would you think if you came to visit good ol' Tiki Central, and low and behold, it looked totally different? what then?

But Hanford, Websites aren't like physical spaces. In the web you can have multiple views ...

Yes, I'm quite aware of this ... I mean, hey, I'm writing the questions as well as the answers here. I do think there's a way to make Tiki Central mobile friendly and add modern features without changing the spirit of the site.

But those changes that Tiki Central desperately needs must be well thought out, property planned, and expertly executed, or else Tiki Central will be like a dreaded Tiki Bar remodel.

The work it needs isn't as difficult as some make it sound. Tiki Central is kind of built on an ancient structure, but the data itself (images and posts) are all in a format that is very well understood. It it not a herculean task to modernize it and move it to a better platform.

However, it's also not trivial. It's not something that is achievable in a few weekends of spare time. And again, it's something I don't want to put in the hands of others without my oversight.

But in short, it needs to be done right.

It's something I want to do eventually, but I don't have a timeframe. But in the meantime I definitely will not abandon it.

I hope this quells any fears you have. While I don't post here anymore, I wouldn't be the same person without the ohana of Tiki Central, and all the amazingness it has brought me. I have made a lot of good friends here and it has changed my life, and I and Haka will keep it running as best we can.

Mahalo!






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MadDogMike
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Mar 30, 2008
Posts: 8797
From: The Anvil of the Sun
Posted: 2017-03-26 6:55 pm   Permalink

Thanks Hanford, and thanks for all your work over the years

 
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mike and marie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 340
Posted: 2017-03-26 7:38 pm   Permalink

Hanford, your post was the Best Possible Post anyone could ask for* on this thread ... thanks for taking the time to do that. Yes, it definitely offers relief about the worries of TC ever going 404.

It actually is kind of cool that TC is stuck in its early 2000s tech time warp. You laid out the perfect argument for keeping that, and we completely agree. How many of you know about Tilde Club? That was more than just a joke---it quickly became a thing and there's a lot out there about it. Yes, it would be very very good to allow mobile uploads. But does it really have to be a deal killer? We know that FB is easier to share and blab on, but if you have solid info to give, this is still the place. And you know, tonight we just thought of another possible feature request: it would be great to be able to post video. Even animated GIFs, but real video would be pretty sweet.

Another thing that's been apparent with this thread is that there is a handful of strong tech people involved with tiki. We can't speak for the rest of them, but if things ever happen where you need some backend help with the system or just want to bounce some ideas about what to do in the future, we're "open 24 hours"!


* Maybe except for "While I don't post here anymore"---that sounds way too final. We have had long periods away from TC ourselves, but still always end up making time to come back once in a while when we can. Hopefully that's something you might still want to do from time to time, too. Even if the gaps between are long.

[ This Message was edited by: mike and marie 2017-03-26 19:38 ]


 
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Swanky
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 5276
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
Posted: 2017-03-27 11:57 am   Permalink

Old Tiki bars change with the times too, often to keep from becoming out of business. They get LED lights, iPhone connected sounds systems, WiFi, apps, connected cash registers, etc. I personally don't think it is a reason to keep it as is. That sounds a little bit like mothballing it. Putting it out to pasture. Giving up on it.

It is a huge job to get from 2001 to 2017 bb code, but once it is up to date, keeping it up to date will be easier.

And I am in bad need of getting my own 1998 websites brought into the present. It's just the time isn't there, though I have been working on it some. And I do hate that I am forced to lose some of the look of my sites to get them into the present. I really don't want my headers to be a lot of tiny text! Really.

But Google is forcing me. My site ranking keeps dropping because my sites are not encrypted and they are not mobile friendly. They will be lost to search engines if I don't update them I am afraid. TC too.
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Dustycajun
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 5053
From: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: 2017-03-28 4:34 pm   Permalink

Well, this seems like as good as place as any to deposit my 5,000th post! It has indeed been a great ride over the years, learned a lot and made lifelong friends. Even got the travel the world a bit.

Great to hear from Hanford on his intentions and the short-term to mid-term fate of TC. TC contains such an incredible wealth of information it would be terrible to lose. And lets not forget the efforts of the other volunteers who keep it running 24-7-365!

DC


 
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kkocka
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 23, 2013
Posts: 764
Posted: 2017-03-28 4:34 pm   Permalink

I'm definitely on the side of keeping with the times - mobile websites can be so clean, simple, beautiful, and downright a breeze to navigate and use. Nobody enjoys old timey functionality and web development has mad leaps and bounds since. Unfortunately 2 of my favorite forums (this one and a music related one) are sporting 2003 tech and it pains me daily. However I do understand it's a big task and there is likely cost associated with it. As I've stated before, I'd be happy to contribute monies. If it would help, I could start researching other options. I do agree that if this is to be done, it should be done right and not in a rush. If there's not a way to simply transfer all threads and data, maybe (upon obtaining a new board) all threads here coul be locked and the site would be preserved as an archive while a new forum picks up. Not the preferred outcome I realize.
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http://www.instagram.com/keithkocka


 
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Johnny Dollar
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Oct 01, 2003
Posts: 3069
From: Columbus, Ohiya
Posted: 2017-03-29 05:04 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-03-28 16:34, Dustycajun wrote:
Well, this seems like as good as place as any to deposit my 5,000th post! It has indeed been a great ride over the years, learned a lot and made lifelong friends. Even got the travel the world a bit.



this extends to many who remain here as well, but thank you DC for your continued contributions here - I always make a point to see what you have turned up - a nice little occasional treat in a somewhat dreary world.

j$


 
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King Bushwich the 33rd
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jan 10, 2005
Posts: 1448
From: Ling Cod Beach, CA 90803
Posted: 2017-04-02 12:08 am   Permalink

Yes, it's true that TikiCentral does not have the latest technology but then again, I would not complain if a fully restored 1955 Chevy did not have power windows. The best feature of TikiCentral back when I joined many many years ago was the people on it. They had similar interest beyond tiki and seemed to have the same view of life and sense of humor.

I joined Facebook to discuss subjects about my occupation and my neighborhood which did not fit into TikiCentral. But I still can handle a couple extra clicks to get over to TikiCentral. They have Tiki groups on Facebook but they are scattered all over and too difficult to keep a subject going and an interesting post gets buried over with off topic posts and funny cat videos.

I see lots of the TikiCentral Ohana over at Facebook and I wish they would stop over here and say Aloha.


 
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Hamo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 22, 2016
Posts: 274
From: Colorado (via Iowa)
Posted: 2017-04-02 1:27 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-04-02 00:08, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:
I see lots of the TikiCentral Ohana over at Facebook and I wish they would stop over here and say Aloha.



Maybe everyone who's active on both Facebook and TC can gently remind/inform people in FB tiki groups about TC and encourage them to stop over here, see what's been happening, and maybe help liven up the joint.

I stopped using FB over a year ago and started becoming "active" on TC in the past six months (after lurking for a long time). There are a few reasons why I chose one platform over the other, but I will say that there's certainly a higher level of "permanence" here, and a wealth of information to mine, two things FB really can't hold a candle. Plus I think social media is vastly overrated. And that comes from someone who grew up with computers and the internet.

Anyway, thanks to everybody who built TC, even if you've moved on to something else.


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 4089
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2017-04-03 08:05 am   Permalink

My original user name was "tiki mick", and I first registered in 2003. That means I have been here 14 years. Whoa.

 
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