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Temple of Doom Tiki Mug--Cursed Tikis |
Trad'r Bill
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 14, 2008
Posts: 451
From: Hercules, CA
|  Posted: 2012-11-05 12:13 pm Permalink
The guy says he's sick of the debate, then goes on to offer a long-ass debate argument? I don't get it... hahah. Anyway, I wasn't arguing that there are no racist elements in tiki, pretty obvious there are. Witch Doctor is on another level.
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4WDtiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 1741
From: Omao, Kauai
| Posted: 2012-11-05 12:18 pm Permalink
Plus, no one is saying this mug is racist, Hale. Just that he won't settle a money dispute with strangedaisy.
You're thinking of the other witch doctor thread.
_________________
Viva Kate!
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Bay Park Buzzy
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Apr 07, 2006
Posts: 2722
From: West Bay Park, San Diego, CA
| Posted: 2012-11-05 12:25 pm Permalink
Quote:
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On 2012-11-05 11:56, happy buddha wrote:
Most of us should have evolved by now.
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We have...
Partisanship 2012! The NEW Racism!
Buzzy Out!
_________________
 
[ This Message was edited by: Bay Park Buzzy 2012-11-05 12:26 ]
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Hale Tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 1607
From: Pittsburgh
| Posted: 2012-11-05 12:34 pm Permalink
Quote:
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On 2012-11-05 07:52, Trad'r Bill wrote:
Quote:
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P.S. It could be just coincidence but i'm wondering if "The Witch Doctor" and "White Devil" are the same person (same initials). White Devil seems to be the only person who defends him.
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Hakalugi confirmed that "James Walker" was a fake account created by Witch Doctor, used to hype up his racist Obama mug, so I wouldn't put it past him.
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4WDTiki. See above.
Trader Bill: You can't settle an argument without words. And invalidate points 1 and 2, if you would. Since you still claim racism. The poit was that those point should have settled the debate, along with the point about Jungle Juice. Did I miss something where he said the n-word, or said that mug was intended to be racist? No. He mentioned irreverent humor. No mention or implication of race.
Happybhudda: So, none of us here enjoy racist mugs, or collect them, or drink racially insensitive drinks?
And you missed the point that the Obama mug isn't racist. See points 1 and 2, I believe.
[ This Message was edited by: Hale Tiki 2012-11-05 12:38 ]
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Hale Tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 1607
From: Pittsburgh
| Posted: 2012-11-05 12:35 pm Permalink
Quote:
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On 2012-11-05 12:25, Bay Park Buzzy wrote:
We have...
Partisanship 2012! The NEW Racism!
Buzzy Out!
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I got a good laugh at that. Touché, sir.
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Atomic Tiki Punk
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 4207
From: Costa Misery
| Posted: 2012-11-05 1:05 pm Permalink
Hale Tiki, while you raise interesting points, all the things you mentioned are just as
racist today as they where in the 40s,50s & 60s
Yes, we can see them through a "Vintage Lens" and set aside the social mindset of that day
but at the same time we must acknowledge what the intent of the image is humor born out of open racism of the day
or at the very least a "social insensitivity" of that era.
It is a lesson that one would hope has been learned by now in today's "moral conscience"
Does that mean we should not have, discuss or enjoy these objects you mentioned, Of course not.
but we should be aware of the history and what they represented at the time.
In that context, can any new representations or depictions of these things be considered "Racist"
Absolutely!
But there is one antiquated idea I think is every bit important today as it was then
that would be the "Freedom of Speech"
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Hale Tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 1607
From: Pittsburgh
| Posted: 2012-11-05 2:08 pm Permalink
ATP.
Tell me how the Obama Shrunken Head mug is racist.
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Atomic Tiki Punk
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 4207
From: Costa Misery
| Posted: 2012-11-05 2:47 pm Permalink
Well H.T.,
In this case it's a combination of the political message the Witch Doctor
was representing, An image of the sitting president as a shrunken head with direct political cartoon stylings
the inclusion of the drink recipe "Jungle Juice" which I think puts it over the top of just a "Political jab"
has its very roots in a racial mindset, if you don't agree that it at least has the overtones of racism
I don't think you are choosing to see it.
Maybe the Doctor has not meant it to be so, but the appearance of Racism is fairly in question.
I myself think for political reasons alone, this has no place on TC & have to question the Witch Doctors
intended message, at the very least he should recognize this has hurt his standing with the TC community
and will affect his bottom line in future mug sales, which alone makes it a bad decision.
Never mind a moral stance.
[ This Message was edited by: Atomic Tiki Punk 2012-11-05 14:50 ]
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Hale Tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 1607
From: Pittsburgh
| Posted: 2012-11-05 3:01 pm Permalink
Aloha ATP! Didn't mean to sound so standoffish in my last message!
Terribly sorry. More to follow...
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Wildsville man
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Dec 13, 2007
Posts: 1310
From: PALM SPRINGSVILLE
| Posted: 2012-11-05 3:09 pm Permalink
After reading all the drama from past Witch Doctor topics like.
Not getting you mug,
Not getting your money back,
WD not responding to your P.M. when you didn't receive your mug's
it shocks me people still purchase from him.
All these mugs are clones of objects that he do's not own the rights too.
You want the world to be a better place?
Stop endorsing bad behavior.
Don't send him your money or be shocked by a guys opinion when he has shown a lack of respect for people who buy from him.
Just my opinion,
W
If you like this design go to
http://www.sideshowtoy.com/?page_id=4489&sku=400059&utm_source=bronto&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Image+-+Chalice+of+Kali+Replica+Prop+Now+Available&utm_content=Image+-+Chalice+of+Kali+Replica+Prop+Now+Available&utm_campaign=ComPOG_Disney-Lucas_110512
and buy it from someone who payed for the rights to use it.
_________________
Rory "WILDSVILLE MAN" Snyder
http://www.tiki-caliente.com
[ This Message was edited by: Wildsville man 2012-11-05 15:26 ]
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Cool Manchu
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
Posts: 560
From: San Jose, CA
| Posted: 2012-11-05 3:18 pm Permalink
I agree with the last post.
The Witch Doctor has shown the Tiki Centralites his true colors.
1. He is a thief, he has taken money for products and either not produced the products or not provided a refund.
2. He is a racist, see his Jungle Juice suggestion for his Obama Shrunken Head mug. Which adds "bottom shelf rum" and "half of a banana."
3. He is unoriginal in his creations, they are knock offs of other, better done mugs/vessels. He's a one trick pony and can only remake things he has done before.
Any post/offering by him is going to illicit this kind of response. He has burned his bridge here and we can only hope he goes away or does enough to get banned.
It's up to us, the community, to ignore him outright until he realizes that he is no longer welcome or wanted here.
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Atomic Tiki Punk
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 4207
From: Costa Misery
| Posted: 2012-11-05 3:36 pm Permalink
Quote:
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On 2012-11-05 15:01, Hale Tiki wrote:
Aloha ATP! Didn't mean to sound so standoffish in my last message!
Terribly sorry. More to follow...
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Oh not at all H.T. nothing to be sorry about
I thought we are having an healthy dialog, I hope my post did not seem like down talking
it is just my point of view from an opinionated bastard 
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Hale Tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 1607
From: Pittsburgh
| Posted: 2012-11-05 4:37 pm Permalink
Not at all. It was me. I often come off as gruff.
So, it's easy, because of the policitcal subject matter, to make it racial in nature, but if the mug were a generic shrunken head, with the jungle juice recipe no matter what ethnicity the mug was intended to be, it would be overlooked. But because it's Barak Obama, it's a sensitive subject.
Just like a work of art, you can make judgement on what the creator intended, but only he, or she, can expain their work.
And as someone who appreciates tiki culture, you can't just say that it's okay because it had it's place in history. Complaceny is tantamount to acceptance. They still make Fu Manchu mugs, people still make Jungle Juice (See ZTL, and others), I hate to go back to the same two examples, but I don't have any of my books in front of me. It's all or none. That's not to say that the mug is racist, but, well, those who live in glass houses.
Yadda yadda. I need a drink. ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHA!!!
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Hale Tiki
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 1607
From: Pittsburgh
| Posted: 2012-11-05 4:37 pm Permalink
Not at all. It was me. I often come off as gruff.
So, it's easy, because of the policitcal subject matter, to make it racial in nature, but if the mug were a generic shrunken head, with the jungle juice recipe no matter what ethnicity the mug was intended to be, it would be overlooked. But because it's Barak Obama, it's a sensitive subject.
Just like a work of art, you can make judgement on what the creator intended, but only he, or she, can expain their work.
And as someone who appreciates tiki culture, you can't just say that it's okay because it had it's place in history. Complaceny is tantamount to acceptance. They still make Fu Manchu mugs, people still make Jungle Juice (See ZTL, and others), I hate to go back to the same two examples, but I don't have any of my books in front of me. It's all or none. That's not to say that the mug is racist, but, well, those who live in glass houses.
Yadda yadda. I need a drink. ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHA!!!
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ErichTroudt
Tiki Socialite
Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 301
From: SoCal
| Posted: 2012-11-05 4:48 pm Permalink
I used the U-mod on this thread.... not because of the racist conversations and not because of people complaining about his business practices....
BUT BECAUSE THIS MUG AIN'T TIKI!!!!!
Seriously, if some excited newby posts a carved koa wood pineapple dish from the 70's there are 15 people instantly jumping up their ass saying.."thats not tiki" and giving them a scolding lecture about mid-century and the decline of tiki....
This is Indiana Jones.... An India related Indiana Jones prop....
Come on...wheres the outrage?...where's the people that carry "where's the tiki" and "hacked tourist trash" like a gun on their hip?
I love indiana jones, and the mug looks sweet.... but this is just another example of nobody saying anything to the people that constantly sell non-tiki stuff on this site.
Witch Doctor isn't the only one.... All these mug makers come out with non-tiki designs or stretch way beyond the "loosely affliated" concept and peddle them on here....
Sorry, I snapped.
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