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Painting and Sculpting Tiki on the iPad and other crazy stuff
Atomic Tiki Punk
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 5904
From: Costa Misery
Posted: 2013-08-01 11:51 am   Permalink

Why is this bad work?

To start, "lighting" you have a sunset behind all your objects
but the "wood like Faces"? are lit from above, as is the grass
yet the palm tree is lit from the front left side, you are all over the place.

What are the sources of these other lights and why no shadows from the sunset?
All of the "Idols" you depict are not "Tikis" not one, why doesn't anyone have issue
with this?

They seem to be based mainly on these.....



 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-01 10:13 pm   Permalink

Hiltiki ... I tend to lean toward the darker less saturated ones as well. It is just that they print a little better with stronger colors .... Thanks for checking it out ... Gene

 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-01 10:23 pm   Permalink

I felt this guy needed some real special treatment. Of course a gold tiki was not a normal Polynesian art form, (OK, maybe never) but I have a tendency to say “What If?” Also I saw this as abstract to the extreme. So I piled on the texture and color until it got so far out that that I could not help but love it. Even though it was blanketed with a fog of specks and grunge the tiki jumps right out of the image into the imagination. At least into my imagination, and that is what counts.
















 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-04 7:19 pm   Permalink

The moai that I applied texture to earlier it this thread. Just experimenting with some different looks to see how the surface texture would look filtered.










 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-05 7:52 pm   Permalink

Using a HDR filter can created an exaggerated increase in detail. I used a number of different filters and effects on this image. One direction I went was with posterization and increased colors. Another direction was to increase the detail and background texture. I was not sure I liked either one, but when I layered the two methods together I ended up with a nicely detailed image with good color and texture. As I say: “You are never done until you decide you are done.” There is always one more possibility.























Man, that was just too many images .... Even I'm confused ... sorry about that ... I will try to control myself better in the future ...


 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-06 6:53 pm   Permalink

The cool thing about working with sculpted tiki designs is that you can pose them at any angle under many lighting conditions. It is easy for me to see sculpts as real objects even if they exist in a digital world. Different poses often fire my imagination and I immediately see what they are meant to be. I saw the fire god in this guy, but getting there took some odd turns. Sometimes you have go through some strange color mix stages to get to where you want to be. The last two may look the same, but on the last one I blended the base into the darkness at the bottom to add some mystery.












 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-07 5:52 pm   Permalink

I used an overall simple wood like grain on this one. When I increased the detail I felt I got the look of burnt wood. That is an old technique used in crafts where you use a blowtorch to burn the whole surface and then wire brush down to the softer grain. I always liked the effect. After some experimenting I decide I liked all of the last three images. Sooner or later I will have to figure out which one I liked best.


















 
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Trader Gino
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Aug 10, 2012
Posts: 70
From: Charlotte, NC
Posted: 2013-08-07 6:16 pm   Permalink

Love him or hate him, I gotta say I see where ATP is coming from regarding the tiki resemblance. Maybe if there was a way you could incorporate some deep cuts or more drastic angle changes, that could help? A little more deliberate presentation of the facial planes maybe?
I've got to hi-five you for some of those later textures you've got going on - lookin' good!
_________________




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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-08 7:34 pm   Permalink

Thanks Trader Gino for your comments and the hi-five. Textures are my life ..... I was happy you didn't poke me with a sharp stick ..... I must I admit I was not very sure about what was meant by your comment ....." Maybe if there was a way you could incorporate some deep cuts or more drastic angle changes, that could help?" ..... I guessed that you thought my images don't look enough like wood carvings, but they are not supposed to. I try not to mimic real world techniques. I have explained this several times before in this thread, I don't copy exactly tiki forms, I don't mimic natural media, I do not try to copy other peoples styles. What I try to do is create somewhat abstract, stylized, Impressionistic tiki images. I have said before many times, "I do not consider myself any kind of fine artist" But, I am a creator. I must create to live. I think creativity is a fundamental human characteristic. I create to remain human.

What I would ask you to do is look at my stuff from a different angle. Try to think of them as tiki mugs. I sculpted in clay for 2 decades and my sculpting style falls back to what I learned in those days. Digital offers many of the same tools that clay does, but there are many added tools that are not possible with clay. My textures that I overlay are like stains, oxides, slips, and glazes I used on my cone 6 sculptures. There are so many possibilities to explore in digital graphics that take you way beyond working with mud. That is my aim ... A new digital art form. They are not really meant to be tiki mugs either by the way ...

I don't get the comment that my images are not tiki. I have gone through this before. (check back in this thread to my early days of tiki study) I have looked at thousands of example here on TC, in Tiki Magazine, and in my collected island culture books. I just don't get it. There are many different expressions of tiki and mine are not far removed from most of them. I think the real problem is the objection to my use of digital design. I don't know how to answer that ....

As to your first comment about Lance. I have no reason to dislike the guy except that he continually tries to bully me.(touchy me) I do believe he is a moron. His knowledge of art and creativity seems very lacking as is his understanding of digital design, and maybe even his knowledge of tiki. I tend to feel sorry for him but I have no desire to listen to the ravings of a moron.


Sorry to all those who actually check into this thread because they don't hate me. I have to explain this stuff far too often .... I will be getting back to the program now ......


 
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Gene S Morgan
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 18, 2011
Posts: 342
From: Midwest the navel of the USA
Posted: 2013-08-08 7:44 pm   Permalink

Sometimes texture can be subtle, creating a kind of ghostly look to the image. Harsh strong texture presents a more grungy look. Combining the two textures can give the look of an embossed rock like surface. I really like that rustic old and worn look.










 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 2781
Posted: 2013-08-08 8:29 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-05-09 19:35, Gene S Morgan wrote:
This is my friend Happy Tiki wearing the vest my wife made using the fabric. We live in the cold Midwest and he prefers vests over Hawaiian shirts. You can tell by his face he liked it a lot.





I want to stay out of this one, I do.
But I don't think ATP attacked you personally.
You did attack him though, you called him "that punk kid" and a moron.
He does not like your style and has said that.
I think for the most part he has been kind (for him) to you.

As far as him not knowing about tiki I hope he will post a photo of his
way cool very tiki house.
In this picture above we can see your "tiki style" on your walls.
AND you made fabric, and it's not too bad, but then you made a VEST with it.
Come on! a vest? I think only a tie would be more untiki.
A vest is at the top of the not tiki clothing list.
It is your house and fabric so do as you wish.
But you live in a glass house don't throw stones.

Now don't get all pissed at me I'm just pointing these things out to you.
And I think that it is you who has done wrong to ATP.
I myself am not into your style really, but a few people here seem to like
what you post so I just try to stay away.
But when you post "tiki art" here people are going to say good and bad things.
That's how it goes.


 
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swizzle
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 03, 2007
Posts: 841
From: Melbourne,Australia
Posted: 2013-08-08 9:17 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-08-08 20:29, tikiskip wrote:

But I don't think ATP attacked you personally.




So comparing a grown mans work with that of a 5 year olds is not an insult? If someone insults me i think of that as being a personal attack.

Quote:

On 2013-08-08 20:29, tikiskip wrote:

He does not like your style and has said that.




Many times. Even after he posted that he had had enough and was not going to get involved anymore.

Quote:


But when you post "tiki art" here people are going to say good and bad things.
That's how it goes.




Really? It's funny how much other 'art' there is on this forum that i personally think is absolute rubbish and has even less resembelence to tiki than Gene's work does and yet i don't say anything. I look at it, have a chuckle to myself and then move on and ignore it. And i'm fairly confident that ATP would agree with me if i mentioned specific names and yet he doesn't insult/attack other people and their work so why has he singled Gene out? Why is that? Is it because he actually knows the people who's work is crap but won't say it to their faces?

And just for the record, i actually agree with several of the points ATP has made and i too personally don't care for Gene's work (Sorry Gene, but it had to be said.) but that doesn't mean if he chooses to post on this forum that he needs to be insulted just because you dislike his 'art'. He has every right to be here as the next person.

Bite your tongue and get over it, move on to the next thread.


 
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Badd Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 28, 2008
Posts: 370
Posted: 2013-08-08 9:50 pm   Permalink

I have read some of the posts and pretty much just tried to stay out of any conflict and am doing so now...

As far as the vest, it's decent for a vest (not my jam ya know). I guess since I like tiki, if I liked vests it would work. I don't see a reason to rule it out as tiki, sure it's not an island thing, but for someone in cold climes... (I live in Rocky Mtns myself- so I'd be the guy on a tiki snowboard...). No reason people can't enjoy tiki influence in their real life style. Hawiian shirts in Minnesota in the winter, no thanks.

Anyway...

I am pretty much consumed by clay now and doing tiki stuff with clay is a dream come true. That has (clay, tiki or not) pretty much sucked me away from what I spent the last 10+ years doing. 3d digital art.
I still do a little here and there, and I was never that great but I understand it pretty well. (I almost had a job in a studio in France that I turned down due to family illness, a friend of mine took the job and they made game of the year this year)

So from that perspective I'll give some input...

It's great that you are trying to work with so many textures and different renders of textures/overlays and whatnot on each. I think what seems lacking to me the most is the composition.
Most are a face and texture, but none are (mind you I haven't looked at every page, right now I looked at this page) 'paintings'. Look at tiki sharks thread and you'll see what I mean. He'll have a tiki, waves, trees, crabs, whatever. He paints a picture that sucks you in.

Yours seems more like render tests, texture tests, but not complete works. So that will leave people wanting more.

Also (constructive criticism) each one does seem incomplete/rushed. If you really want to improve your 3d skills I will recommend polycount.com. It's mainly based on game design, but when it comes to leading edge 3d art, games are where it's at. cgart.com (I think) is another.. more art based than game)

Even just looking at others works on those sites will show you what needs improved.

IMO you probably need to put more into the base shapes. Then use sculpting to really dig in and define detail. learn how to use different map types (specular for shiny metal, bump maps for fine details, illumination for glow).
Then use that knowledge to create an entire scene.
===============

I'd say the main reason you are getting 'this isn't tiki' comments is because tiki is a pretty well defined style. Fairly strictly based on Hawiian (and other polynesian cultures) works. It seems very simple (it is definitely primitive) but it really isn't.
It's very hard to lock yourself into such a strict style. It's very hard to follow the style and not go 'out of bounds' if you are feeling creative.

Every time I draw a tiki on a piece of wood I run out of room for the legs... I just seem to fail at the proportions.

The best example I can think of is Van Tiki's work. He does completely amazing mugs. His first ones seems to be very tiki, his latest ones are very creative and some people have said not tiki. (because he made a robot tiki mug, etc..). He definitely drifted into his own amazing style and nobody can say his mugs aren't the coolest mugs ever. But some HAVE said they aren't tiki. I accept them as tiki because I really can see the influence and I love his work.

So I can see where you are coming from. Your works are tiki influenced but you are trying to use your own voice. The point is if you call it tiki at the most tiki centralized forum on the planet there are those who will point that out. If you say/understand that they are just tiki influenced then the reaction would probably be different.



[ This Message was edited by: Badd Tiki 2013-08-08 22:03 ]


 
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Atomic Tiki Punk
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 5904
From: Costa Misery
Posted: 2013-08-08 11:54 pm   Permalink

I really try to avoid your thread Gene & just let you do what your doing
I have no malice or dislike towards you what so ever and have never attacked you in a personal way
or made comments about your character, but I have bluntly criticized your work
and only your work, you know what I think of it so won't rub it in again.

When I first saw what you are doing I had a very knee jerk reaction and made the comment
about it looking like the work of a 5 year old and that's what it looks like to me
this was a very blunt and insensitive remark so I edited that post and toned it down
but kept the same criticism intact, which you like to say I changed my post after "attacking" you.

I approach society these days with a blunt but honest world view, I am opinionated which few people can deal with any more
in this PC driven world, your not a kid & I am not trying to be your friend, this is a site that is suppose to be for adults
so I am not here to coddle or back slap you for being "special" rather then mediocre.

What this means is go ahead give me hell back, I said something you didn't like (A criticism of your work) and you returned
with personal insults & attacks on my character, which I gladly took from you because I criticized your work in the first place
it is what I should expect from being blunt & critical, I expect anyone here to return the criticism my way.

Clearly a few people here don't know the difference between "Criticism" harsh or other wise & outright personal attacks
but there is a difference.

As to your remark about myself not knowing anything about "Digital Art" let me leave you with this
you say you have been doing it for years, so maybe you remember the 3D Landscape software "Bryce 3D" it very popular in the 80s & 90s and still around today, I designed an add-on package for it called the "Planet Bryce Kit" that got very popular in the Bryce community
in the mid 1980s, I finished Art school in 1977 & got my first professional job 2 weeks later working as a graphic artist for "Burmys Surfware"
anyone around back then might have worn some of the many T-Shirts I designed.

I got so involved in Digital Art that it led to a future in the Computer industry which I still do today
unfortunately for me it is all on the computer side of the business these days, but I still freelance when I can.
so I hope that answers your insults about my Digital Art back ground.

So with that background I am very clearly knowledgeable on how you are "creating" your pictures and applying
multiple filters to change backgrounds, textures, colors and that it takes absolutely zero skill to do so
who hasn't just played with Photoshop filters for hours, but "Art" it does not make.

As for making "Tiki Art" there is a history & culture that needs to be recognized & acknowledged, Which you seem unaware of
and this is where my criticism stems from.

To everyone else at no time have I said that Gene was not welcomed here or can't post his work, nor have I returned any insults
he has directed at me, Swizzle you will find me making many other criticisms to others like "not Tiki" etc. if you really read many of my posts
but I usually say positive things to others who show skill, artistry & promise on the whole.

Gene I will do my best not to "Bully" you in the future, now have a nice day.






 
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GROG
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jun 21, 2006
Posts: 6838
From: Tujunga
Posted: 2013-08-09 08:53 am   Permalink

"Whatsoever" is one word as is "backslap". You had a few more minor spelling mistakes like using YOUR for YOU'RE a couple of times. But overall well-worded, pretty straightforward, and not quite as blunt for an ATP posting.----The Spelling Police.

 
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