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Tiki Central Forums Bilge Lucas Vigor: Setting the record straight
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Lucas Vigor: Setting the record straight
lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2013-08-12 1:45 pm   Permalink

First off, apologies to Otto. Not for how I feel about the the state of tiki and the massive detour from the original concept....but for the inappropriate "crapping" on his thread that I did. Most of you were right, it just wasn't the time or place.

And since I know I will never play again at Tiki oasis, i really gain nothing for apologizing since the damage is done...but i do apologize to him anyway. I respect Otto for creating the first big tiki event. I respect the work he puts into it. I just disagree very strongly about his choice in musical acts, and his boycotting of some other bands that play every other event.

A few days ago there were some very serious insults and allegations made against me from a notorious member of this forum, among them:

1.I have no friends here
2.Everyone hates me
3.Everyone hates my band because I am in it.
4.All current and past members of my band or bands hate me
5.I am a sociopath
6.I am a piece of shit
7.I add nothing and contribute nothing

Pretty strong stuff, if you ask me.

But I want to ask all of you one very serious question:

I have been a member of this forum since almost the ancient days. During that time, I have been to many an event, both with bands and just as a guest. While at these tiki events, I have met and spoken and even hung around with many of you.

In all those interactions, has ANYONE had an unpleasant experience? Was I rude to anyone? Got in anyone's face? Created a disturbance or started a fight? Have I lied, cheated or stolen from anyone of you? Ripped any one off? In fact, isn't it true that I was always friendly and a perfect gentleman to everyone, albeit a bit of a drunky?

Because from what I have seen, the person who accused me of being the biggest douchebag in tiki history has herself engaged in almost every single negative and bat-shit crazy type of behavior she accused me of. She hates me so much she has basically threatened me with physical violence or verbal assault should we run into each other. Nice.

She claims to speak for most of you. That most of you feel the same way that she does.

My question for all of you is, should I stay or should I go? I don't want to be somewhere that I am not wanted. I don't want to play as a musician at events where I am not wanted.

In the early 80s, Andy kaufman went on SNL and basically asked for a vote. he too was a very polarizing figure. In the end, the viewers were able to vote and he was booted from the show.

My "crimes", as it were, are to have an opinion. A strong opinion, perhaps not always worded sweetly, but in the end....no different really then a lot of other opinionated posters, including some of the kings of this forum.

At no time have I "hated" anyone on this forum. Sure, I joke a bit, but bear no animosity to anyone including the one person who wants to beat me up.

Are there some "artists" whose stuff I don't really like? Yes, of course. That includes some musicians as well...but there are indeed a whole lot of artists and bands that I really like!

I have been accused of bringing nothing to the table...but, I disagree. I helped bring the Smokin Menehunes, and helped form the Hula Girls. I was instrumental, in fact, in the early days of that band. The song "Curse of the tiki", I wrote the music. "Hidden Village", I wrote the chords down on a piece of paper during a rehearsal and handed it to Spike.

And, of course I do my own stuff...which anyone can download for FREE if they are so inclined.

https://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/lights-on-the-water?in=lucas-vigor/sets/set-3

https://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/the-straight-dope?in=lucas-vigor/sets/set-3

https://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/artist-so-daco-samba?in=lucas-vigor/sets/set-3

https://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/the-dark-continent-limpopo?in=lucas-vigor/sets/set-3

So I ask all of you, should I stay or should I go? Please remember that if you hate me, it is based on my words and opinions....nothing more. Reason enough to hate someone and want to beat them up? Remember what I asked you...I don't believe even one of you can point to any time you met me in person where I was a dick. Use that to make your choice.

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/lucas-vigor/sets/set-3/

"yer jus not tuned into the series of tubes yet, let it soak in".



[ This Message was edited by: lucas vigor 2013-08-12 13:50 ]


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bigbadtikidaddy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 24, 2002
Posts: 441
Posted: 2013-08-12 3:27 pm   Permalink

I vote stay sir.
it was an inappropriate exchange on both sides, but at least you kept your comments non-lethal.


 
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Atomic Tiki Punk
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 5474
From: Costa Misery
Posted: 2013-08-12 4:17 pm   Permalink

Lucas I am going to give it to you straight
from one opinionated person to another, Your Oasis bashing was
a grievous error of judgment, you had valid points about your ideas of music
which were lost in how you chose to make your point & in the place you made it.

I did offer support to you from (That other person's) vile & ugly attack
on you, which was then turned towards myself, No one here can offer any justification
for this kind of behavior whatsoever & is clearly a violation of site rules
I have no idea why this is being tolerated by anyone here.

As to being an opinionated S.O.B. (which I am also know for) hell yes you should stay!
just think it out next time, if you want your message to be heard
kudos for your apology to Otto & knowing when you made a mistake.

For those who don't know Lucas, He is an extremely talented Musician who probably knows more
about music then most of us will ever know & he has a passion to match, I just have to admire him for that.




 
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SandraDee
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 899
Posted: 2013-08-12 4:42 pm   Permalink

The problem I see is that you, Lucas, took every PM we exchanged (after YOU messaged me first) and twisted the words around and posted them so YOU looked like you weren't being a complete jerk to me and it was all ME being rude to you.

SO let's clear this up...because I am really sick of the bullshit.

Here is the message YOU sent to me FIRST after I posted on the TO thread that you were being rude to Otto and to the event itself:

Liz, I will go out on a limb here and tell you exactly what my problem with Tiki Oasis is.
I did exactly what you said: I spoke with Otto. I went to him, hat in hand, humbled myself and literally begged him to let my band play there. I told him we would do it cheap, and that we only wanted to do a pool-side performance, nothing more.
He flat out told me no way, that he has held a grudge for over 10 years against tiki bong, didn't like Hawaiian music and to basically go fuck myself.
Sorry, but respect is a two way deal. I have nothing but contempt for him as a result. Our band is one of the original bands in this scene. We have played every other event. He is not showing either me or my band any respect at all.
Liz, do you think we get paid a lot to do all the shows we do? Like Tiki marketplace? We get paid literally in peanuts. I am very proud of my band, and all the hard work we put into it.
This is nothing personal against you. I don't even know you, though I think you are a cool chick despite what you feel about me.
You stand up for what you believe, and you are very passionate about things. I have read your posts. I am the same way. Otto disrespected me and my band, and I am just giving it right back to him. He fucking deserves every bit of it. As much as I hate it, both he and Sven are very influencial in this scene. if they give something their blessing, then everyone else does too. Both otto and Sven have never, not even once, acknowledged my band.
And otto also fucked my other band, The Hula Girls, when we played there. I had to use my real name just to get into the event, by the way. he relegated us to a back room party with about 20 people watching, while he gave Kim Tsoy top billing. That crowd was drunk and in the mood for a great band.....and hardly anyone saw us Hula Girls play.

So again Liz, you are passionate and opinionated, and even sometimes negative....before accusing me of those same things, realize that I actually have a reason.

If you have ever read my posts, you would know that I am only negative towards those non-tiki trends that keep creeping their way into this forum. it's not negativity for the sake of just being negative.



And here is the message I sent in reply :

There seems to be many people who view you as super negative--including people who have played with or play in your band currently.
I do not know you personally so I have no opinion when others say their comments about you but we can't all have a similar opinion and be wrong. Maybe you don't realize you ARE negative. Maybe you need to look in on yourself and do some reflection..I don't know because I don't know you but if more than 1 person thinks it then perhaps its a problem that needs to be addressed?
I don't know honestly what happened between you and Otto...I wasn't there...I have heard that you did complain an awful lot when you played TO and with all the bands available to book who wants to book a band who has a complaining member? Once again this is what I have heard so I can't say if it is what happened but if all signs point to the same conclusion then....

What I do know is that I don't see Otto coming on any thread bashing YOU ...so why don't you just stop being so rude and ignore him and ignore his posts. People are TIRED of it. They may not say so online but they say so when we are all gathered together....people are over the drama.

In the end your posts make YOU look bad...and in this case NOT Otto.

But if that's what you want then by all means post away. Just don't expect anyone to respect what you have to say





And than after THAT exchange your emails to me turned nasty and rude. I am NOT a vile person Lance. Maybe if you all actually KNOW what the exchange was you would have a little more of an unbiased opinion of what went down.


I mean seriously..we are all grown men and women and just because we may not like each other doesn't mean we have to sit on a forum and lie to get sympathy.


Lucas post on Tiki Central. Its obvious you have passion and knowledge on music..I do not..but you sat there and insulted Otto and Tiki Oasis--a HUGE event that many people have hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars invested in.

No one else was willing to speak up and tell you to stop being rude except me. So hey that has all been deleted so maybe you can start fresh?



[ This Message was edited by: SandraDee 2013-08-12 16:46 ]


 
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TikiTacky
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Nov 23, 2010
Posts: 965
From: Colorado
Posted: 2013-08-12 6:33 pm   Permalink

Hear that giant sucking sound? That's the black hole of Aloha that is this thread.

_________________
T-shirts based on vintage tiki matchbooks:
TikiTees

[ This Message was edited by: TikiTacky 2013-08-12 18:35 ]


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komohana
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 08, 2010
Posts: 402
From: western australia
Posted: 2013-08-12 8:04 pm   Permalink

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=WgLtzD6JxcA&vq=medium

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Otto
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 831
From: NorCal
Posted: 2013-08-12 9:28 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-08-12 20:04, komohana wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=WgLtzD6JxcA&vq=medium



That's beautiful!


 
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Otto
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 831
From: NorCal
Posted: 2013-08-12 9:35 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-08-12 16:42, SandraDee wrote:
tell you exactly what my problem with Tiki Oasis is.
I did exactly what you said: I spoke with Otto. I went to him, hat in hand, humbled myself and literally begged him to let my band play there. I told him we would do it cheap, and that we only wanted to do a pool-side performance, nothing more.
He flat out told me no way, that he has held a grudge for over 10 years against tiki bong, didn't like Hawaiian music and to basically go fuck myself.
Sorry, but respect is a two way deal. I have nothing but contempt for him as a result. Our band is one of the original bands in this scene. We have played every other event. He is not showing either me or my band any respect at all.
Liz, do you think we get paid a lot to do all the shows we do? Like Tiki marketplace? We get paid literally in peanuts. I am very proud of my band, and all the hard work we put into it.
This is nothing personal against you. I don't even know you, though I think you are a cool chick despite what you feel about me.
You stand up for what you believe, and you are very passionate about things. I have read your posts. I am the same way. Otto disrespected me and my band, and I am just giving it right back to him. He fucking deserves every bit of it. As much as I hate it, both he and Sven are very influencial in this scene. if they give something their blessing, then everyone else does too. Both otto and Sven have never, not even once, acknowledged my band.
And otto also fucked my other band, The Hula Girls, when we played there. I had to use my real name just to get into the event, by the way. he relegated us to a back room party with about 20 people watching, while he gave Kim Tsoy top billing.


[ This Message was edited by: SandraDee 2013-08-12 16:46 ]



Lucas

You have been outed for the hateful, spiteful, malcontent that you are.
I don't really need to address all the issues you have brought up here because they are YOUR issues, not reality.

Thanks for starting this thread so that everyone could see the two-faced, dishonest person you are.

Well, actually no one is seeing or at least no one is posting to it cause no one cares.

I think you ahve your answer to your original question. BYE.


 
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tikicoma
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Jan 16, 2010
Posts: 345
From: wakinekona
Posted: 2013-08-12 10:36 pm   Permalink

Lucas, I've never been to one of your performances but some of your posts here have been very rude, not this one, to start with anyway. I've found the rudeness problematic though, because I frequently agreed with your point but not the anger that would surface in the ensuing troll battles. I say stay. You have knowledge of hapa haole/hawaiian music that you could share, and I believe that many here would welcome it also. I don't know any of you people but here's an idea, when someone says something that pisses you off, walk away from your keyboard, make a drink, take a walk, watch TV, play some music, create something, take a breath than come back and decide if it's really worth flaming away like a troll that just fell in the campfire.
Once again stay, all of you, stay, but try to be less asshole like.

tikicoma


 
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freddiefreelance
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 2987
From: San Diego, Ca.
Posted: 2013-08-13 08:43 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-08-12 18:33, TikiTacky wrote:
Hear that giant sucking sound? That's the black hole of Aloha that is this thread.

_________________
T-shirts based on vintage tiki matchbooks: TikiTees

[ This Message was edited by: TikiTacky 2013-08-12 18:35 ]


Vote to start a new "Black Hole of Aloha" forum and move All posts like this to that forum.
_________________
Rev. Dr. Frederick J. Freelance, Ph.D., Th.D., D.F.S


 
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Cammo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 1941
From: San Diego
Posted: 2013-08-13 11:06 am   Permalink

Here's my view "Luke" - I don't care if you stay or go because I think all of your arguments on every subject are pretty misinformed, repetitive, and myopic. I don't read them anymore; they're simply a waste of my time.

Otto is NOT just presenting one narrowly defined type of music, but obviously the rich, flourishing ROOTS of that music as well. It's then-contemporary sources and it's origins, which pull from a huge variety of music styles. Sometimes these roots are forgotten or invisible to today's public, even to the musicians themselves! Otto has the taste, style, enthusiasm and magic good fortune to heap it all on the fortunate people who appreciate it.

It's obvious to almost everybody that these musical roots are fun and broadening to our appreciation of all music. Thanks to Otto, they're also nice on the ears.

Aloha!


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2013-08-13 11:41 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-08-13 11:06, Cammo wrote:

Otto is NOT just presenting one narrowly defined type of music, but obviously the rich, flourishing ROOTS of that music as well. It's then-contemporary sources and it's origins, which pull from a huge variety of music styles. Sometimes these roots are forgotten or invisible to today's public, even to the musicians themselves! Otto has the taste, style, enthusiasm and magic good fortune to heap it all on the fortunate people who appreciate it.

It's obvious to almost everybody that these musical roots are fun and broadening to our appreciation of all music. Thanks to Otto, they're also nice on the ears.

Aloha!



Exactly my point. The tiki tent is only widened when it comes to tiki music. In all other areas of tiki, things are VERY narrowly defined by people here.
I bring back my point about Mai Tais.....the rest of the world thinks they are made of pineapple juice, grenadine and rum.
That's kind of how I feel about tiki music.

Cammo, you may disagree with me, but I am hardly misinformed. I consider Hapa haole music to not only be a root, but practically the whole branch...but apparently I am in the minority. I think when people think about Hawaiian music, they are picturing two guys in aloha shirts with acoustic guitars singing Bruddah Iz and cecelio and kapono songs at a hotel...that's not what Hapa Haole and hawaiian steel guitar music is.

Look folks, I already apologized to Otto. Nothing more I can say except we have 4 affirmative votes by my count so far.

To the "Black hole of Aloha" comment, I moved this whole thing to Bilge where it belongs. If you don't like the thread, no one has a gun to your head. I just want your vote, stay or go? After a while we can tally the votes...if overwhelmingly they vote to go, I will go. No BS this time. Believe me, I don't want to be where I am not wanted.
_________________
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I AM A SOCIOPATH!


 
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Kaiwaza
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 06, 2003
Posts: 451
From: Waikiki Beach, Hawaii
Posted: 2013-08-13 12:11 pm   Permalink

Man...my other outside interest (other than Hawaiiana/Tiki) has been working with beauty pageants. I thought it was just the pageant world that was full of crazy egos...guess I was wrong!
LIsten, STAY. If you have a passion for something, you should be involved, posting, etc. It doesn't matter if everyone agrees or thinks each other is a lunatic....that's life.
I can't comment on all the professional performance issues as I have no involvement & don't really know the people involved. (Well, I did have cocktails with Otto once quite a few years ago watching Arthur Lyman).
I do feel that "tiki" gets very narrowly defined by some people, yet many of the same people have a very broad definition of what music is "tiki." I don't get that, but, whatever. Some folks I encounter think my definition of "Hawaiian" music is too broad. Years ago, I changed my attitude & figured like, as they say "Hawaiian is what Hawaiian does", so "Tiki is as tiki does" and I just continue to do what I like...
Anyway, I say stay. But you do whatever you like.

_________________
Paradise is a state of mind.

[ This Message was edited by: Kaiwaza 2013-08-13 12:12 ]


 
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4WDtiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 03, 2004
Posts: 1836
From: Omao, Kauai
Posted: 2013-08-14 4:03 pm   Permalink

Stay!

 
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hiltiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 2980
From: Reseda, calif.
Posted: 2013-08-14 6:09 pm   Permalink

Stay.

 
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