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Tiki Central Forums Collecting Tiki Menu "acquiring" from active places: ultimate sin or slap on the wrist?
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Menu "acquiring" from active places: ultimate sin or slap on the wrist?
kenbo-jitsu
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 27, 2011
Posts: 201
From: Southern CA
Posted: 2014-01-15 09:58 am   Permalink

Quote:
On 2014-01-15 09:16, nomeus wrote:
disney spent 4.05 billion purchasing star wars...i think they can afford the overhead of loss


So whether stealing is wrong or not depends on the affluence of the victim? That may not be what you really meant to say, but it is in fact the opinion of a LARGE number of people today.


 
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TikiTacky
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Nov 23, 2010
Posts: 1301
Posted: 2014-01-15 09:59 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2014-01-15 09:16, nomeus wrote:
disney spent 4.05 billion purchasing star wars...i think they can afford the overhead of loss



Stealing from the rich doesn't make you any less of a thief.


 
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MaukaHale
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 07, 2012
Posts: 348
From: The base of the Volcano
Posted: 2014-01-15 10:12 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2014-01-15 09:16, nomeus wrote:
disney spent 4.05 billion purchasing star wars...i think they can afford the overhead of loss



Just think of the person you have become by justifying stealing. Is it now okay for someone to steal from you because they think you can afford the loss?


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[ This Message was edited by: MaukaHale 2014-01-15 13:26 ]


 
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Kenike
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 24, 2003
Posts: 1204
From: McKinney, TX
Posted: 2014-01-15 11:45 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2014-01-15 09:48, tikilongbeach wrote:
Menus should only be taken if the establishment gives you permission.



I always ask and offer to pay for it. They usually give it to me for free.



 
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Kiwi Steve
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 22, 2012
Posts: 179
From: San Diego
Posted: 2014-01-15 2:39 pm   Permalink

Stealing sucks, but definitely ask. You never know... I asked about a mug at Tiki Ti, that they don't sell anymore. They still didn't have it, but they gave me a TON of free swag. I asked Bob at Oceanic Arts about their limited edition mug that they sold out of a couple of years ago & he left for a few minutes, came back & said, "here ya go". He set a couple aside for family, but they didn't want it. Now I have a cool mug with a cool story... It doesn't hurt to ask & sometimes it pays off...

 
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swizzle
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 03, 2007
Posts: 847
From: Melbourne,Australia
Posted: 2014-01-16 01:33 am   Permalink

When i was visited the U.S. in 2012 i was looked after extremely well by just about all of the establishments i went to, especially by the managers at the Kon Tiki in Tuscon and the now sadly defunct Bahooka. I have no doubt that being from Australia and that the sole purpose of my trip was to travel to as many tiki bars/restaurants as i could definitely worked in my favour.

I was more than happy to pay for any menus but fortunately had them just given to me. When i went to Trader Sam's and was handed one of the menus the first thing i asked was if they were available for sale and was told that they weren't. Needless to say i was extremely disappointed but one of the girls who was in the group i was with 'acquired' one for me. I certainly was not going to stop her but i did tell her not to, only because i didn't want anything happening to her if she was caught.

Now all i have to say is that any and all establishments that do not offer their menus, mugs, swizzle sticks, etc. for sale are FOOLS and it serves them right if things are stolen. I think it is blatantly obvious that the majority of mugs and all other ephemera from the tiki bars of yesteryear found in thrift stores and on eBay would have been 'acquired'.

If it costs $1.50 to have a menu printed, sell it for $2. You are going to please the customer, not lose money, and even for those menus that are still stolen they'd at least cover their costs and break even. And when you are talking about a menu like the one at Trader Sam's, that's just like a red rag to a bull. People are going to steal them no matter what, even if you could buy them, but if you don't even offer them for sale to start with, what do you expect.


 
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Bongo Bungalow
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 1272
From: Indiana
Posted: 2014-01-16 03:30 am   Permalink

Swizzle makes a good point... how many of the items we find in thrift stores or antique shops were originally stolen from tiki restaurants? Even if we didn't steal them ourselves, aren't we supporting this black market kinda like ivory buyers? Maybe mugs were originally purchased, but menus and ashtrays? (No, i'm going to lose sleep over this, I just think it's interesting.)


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White Devil
Deleted

Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 0
Posted: 2014-01-16 09:33 am   Permalink

Quote:
Now all i have to say is that any and all establishments that do not offer their menus, mugs, swizzle sticks, etc. for sale are FOOLS...



You're dead right about that. I think you have to be enough of an optimist about your clientele to think that if they're that interested in your barware, they'd be more than happy to pay you for what they'd like to collect from your establishment. If you're low on mugs, menus or matchbooks, then order more pronto. If you can't acquire more, then use something different in your place and put the discontinued stuff up for bid.

Quote:
...and it serves them right if things are stolen.



I'd differ with you there. Just because people are lousy at making business decisions doesn't give you the customer the inherent right to take what belongs to them without agreed-upon compensation.


    
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tikilongbeach
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Aug 05, 2011
Posts: 1299
From: Long Beach, CA via Dallas, TX
Posted: 2014-01-16 1:08 pm   Permalink

The theft of copper mugs from bars that make Moscow Mule's made the Wall Street Journal.

The link also has vintage clip from Smirnoff Vodka explaining the creation of the MM.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303330204579248472713932910
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uncle trav
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Joined: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 1776
From: Kalamazoo
Posted: 2014-01-16 2:23 pm   Permalink

Many of the big name restaurants back in the hay day of tiki gave away a bunch of free swag. Hawaii Kai in NYC offered ever thin for Westwood teapots to tiki table lighters as free items at one time or another. Many offered a signature drink in a mug that was yours to keep with the price of the cocktail. I believe Trader Vic may have been the first owner to have a gift shop offering mugs and souvenirs for sale even the Mai Kai and the Kahiki had them early on. I know many of the items in the wild were most likely field collected back in the day but I find it hard to believe a scorpion bowl could fit in a ladies formal evening pocketbook in 1962. A bunch of the vintage tiki items we are just finding now are from places that have been closed for fifty years or more in some cases. Small hoards of unused mug and menus have been found from long gone tiki palaces from time to time. Mugs and ephemera survived years and traveled all over the place only to surface in the most unlikely places.
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King Bushwich the 33rd
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Joined: Jan 10, 2005
Posts: 1168
From: Ling Cod Beach, CA 90803
Posted: 2014-01-16 2:48 pm   Permalink

On a larger scale, there is much discussion on how some of the great museums such as the British Museum and the Louvre "acquired" their priceless artifacts from other regions of the world.

But, no, this would not justify an unauthorized acquisition from a business such as a bar or restaurant.


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White Devil
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Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Posts: 0
Posted: 2014-01-17 05:30 am   Permalink

Quote:
On 2014-01-16 14:48, King Bushwich the 33rd wrote:
On a larger scale, there is much discussion on how some of the great museums such as the British Museum and the Louvre "acquired" their priceless artifacts from other regions of the world.

But, no, this would not justify an unauthorized acquisition from a business such as a bar or restaurant.



In the instances of museums, the goal of acquisition is preservation, not profiteering (or destruction, in the case of extreme Muslim factions). In many instances those artifacts are repatriated once the originating nation can demonstrate a capability of preserving its own history. Given the brevity of lifespans of most tiki establishments, the ransacking collectors ultimately contribute to the preservation and dissemination of the memorabilia, but that wouldn't justify the non-compensation of the business while it's still viable.


    
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Teadoir
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Dec 04, 2013
Posts: 18
From: Oregon
Posted: 2014-01-17 08:24 am   Permalink

You can make the same argument about menus and such. "I'm preserving a piece of tiki history!" It doesn't fly. You ask, you don't take. And more often than not, when indigenous people ask that items be returned by museums, they are not.

But that's all beside the point. We can't do much about what a large institution does, but we can choose to behave in an honorable manner ourselves. Which means not stealing from the places we love.


 
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TropicDrinkBoy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 27, 2011
Posts: 273
Posted: 2014-01-17 09:20 am   Permalink

If you are a tiki enthusiast you do what you can to support tiki establishments. You leave a generous tip, order that extra drink, buy a souvenir, etc. If you want to keep their menu you offer to pay for it. Taking without permission is stealing no matter how you rationalize it. If you think it is O.K. be sure to tell all you show your "collection" to "I stole this from Trader Sam's, Trader Vic's, Tiki Ti, Mai Kai, etc."

[ This Message was edited by: TropicDrinkBoy 2014-01-17 09:43 ]


 
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Atomic Tiki Punk
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 19, 2009
Posts: 5967
From: Costa Misery
Posted: 2014-01-17 4:07 pm   Permalink

Teadoir & TropicDrinkBoy, you are %100 right!

 
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