FEATURES | MUSIC | BOOKS | DRINKS | FORUMS | GAMES | LINKS | ABOUT


advertise on Tiki Central

Celebrating classic and modern Polynesian Pop
  [Edit Profile]  [Edit Preferences]  [Search] [Sign Up]
[Personal Messages]  [Member List]  [Help/FAQ]  [Rules]  [Login]
Tiki Central Forums Collecting Tiki Counterfeit Don the Beachcomber Tiki Mugs?
Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
Counterfeit Don the Beachcomber Tiki Mugs?
Jamoorea
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Nov 01, 2014
Posts: 22
Posted: 2015-06-01 8:15 pm   Permalink

Hi All,
So, these may be completely legit, but they give me a chance to open a discussion I've wondered about for a while. On Ebay last week, a pair of Don The Beachcomber simple bamboo-ish mugs sold for $500+ bucks! They look old, seem rare (I've never seen them or even a reference to them, anyway) but I'm suspicious. Was there a Hollywood DTB on Vermont? (The mugs say "Vermond" & "Vermonde" which bothers me). The original was on McCadden Place, correct? Does anyone know anything about these? My point is, as tiki stuff rises in value, counterfeits seem inevitable - especially online. These are simple designs, easy for a relatively competent ceramist to produce.
Also, DTB had so many versions of their stuff it might be fairly easy to slip a reasonable fake into the mix and most would have no idea.
I'm not saying these are fakes but they seem problematic to me. I am curious to hear what others think.
Thanks.





[ This Message was edited by: Jamoorea 2015-06-01 20:39 ]


 
View Profile of Jamoorea Send a personal message to Jamoorea      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Dustycajun
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 5047
From: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: 2015-06-01 10:33 pm   Permalink

Those are the real deal, shown here in a post by Pa'akiki.

A mug marked from don the beachcomber Hollywood i have only ever seen a picture of it in the book "hawaii tropical rum Drinks & Cuisine by Don the Beachcomber"
from the book

found this a few years back


Vermond is the mug maker.

DC


 
View Profile of Dustycajun Send a personal message to Dustycajun      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Jamoorea
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Nov 01, 2014
Posts: 22
Posted: 2015-06-01 11:20 pm   Permalink

Thanks for the details & images, DC.
60's? 70's?
Not DTB's most inspired work but interesting to see.




[ This Message was edited by: Jamoorea 2015-06-02 01:35 ]


 
View Profile of Jamoorea Send a personal message to Jamoorea      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Swanky
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 03, 2002
Posts: 5276
From: Hapa Haole Hideaway, TN
Posted: 2015-06-02 06:29 am   Permalink

Don wasn't known for mugs. They didn't use many. And to be honest, they were known for a beachcomber style that was not "slick" and refined. These fit right in.
_________________

"Mai-Kai: History & Mystery of the Iconic Tiki Restaurant" the book


 View Profile of Swanky Send a personal message to Swanky  Email Swanky Goto the website of Swanky     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
arriano
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 13, 2006
Posts: 1425
From: San Diego
Posted: 2015-06-02 08:58 am   Permalink

I think Vermonde is the company that made the mugs.



 
View Profile of arriano Send a personal message to arriano      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Jamoorea
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Nov 01, 2014
Posts: 22
Posted: 2015-06-02 09:45 am   Permalink

Personally two of my favorite mugs of all time are the emerald long neck and the original coconut. DTB had great taste in all of the artwork they used to support the restaurants. Menus, flyers, matchbooks, swizzlesticks, postcards, mugs, etc. are often the best of the era.
That's why so many still exist - nobody could bring themselves to throw them away.
Don't get me wrong Swanky, if I found these at a garage sale I'd lunge for them. They just aren't up to his usual high standards in my opinion.


 
View Profile of Jamoorea Send a personal message to Jamoorea      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Fez Moai
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Dec 01, 2013
Posts: 365
From: Parts unknown
Posted: 2015-06-02 4:34 pm   Permalink

They look great, I dig the blood red color.

 
View Profile of Fez Moai Send a personal message to Fez Moai  Email Fez Moai     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Dustycajun
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 5047
From: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: 2015-06-02 8:54 pm   Permalink

Swanky is right, Don the Beachcomber made very few mugs. Here are some photos of the line up from the 1960s.







DC


 
View Profile of Dustycajun Send a personal message to Dustycajun      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Jamoorea
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Nov 01, 2014
Posts: 22
Posted: 2015-06-04 12:11 pm   Permalink

Thanks all, for responding and posting on this. I haven't personally seen any mug rip-offs or frauds, but now that we're edging closer and closer to the $1,000.00 range on some of this stuff, it becomes more viable.
And on these mugs in particular, I agree, (now that I know something about them) anything from the original DTB is a pretty cool thing to have.
On collecting, and I am sorry to say I am one (I wish I could say I am a recovering collector) there are two kinds of collectors.
Those who collect everything there ever was in a genre and those who collect only what they like.
I struggle to not be the former and try to think about how something will fit in with the other things I have. And more than that, do I even like it beyond some historical significance it might represent. Unfortunately, I think in most cases I was happier with my collections when I only had a couple of things and the dream of finding more. The more I find, the more it begins to feel like a burden. Especially with mugs. Two on a shelf is much cooler than 100 - (journey not the destination - maybe we should collect like a fly fisherman. After we find something, throw it back).
Anyway, you've convinced me these mugs have some historic value and beachcomber charm.
Would I spend $560 bucks on them? No effing way!


[ This Message was edited by: Jamoorea 2015-06-04 12:53 ]


 
View Profile of Jamoorea Send a personal message to Jamoorea      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
nomeus
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 422
Posted: 2015-06-28 5:46 pm   Permalink

i have a story about these 2 exact mugs that were on ebay. did anyone here get them because i sure didnt, after a long fiasco with the seller

 
View Profile of nomeus Send a personal message to nomeus  Email nomeus     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Jamoorea
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Nov 01, 2014
Posts: 22
Posted: 2015-06-29 11:28 am   Permalink

Hi Nomeus,
Everything about this sale made me suspicious - which is why I started this thread in the first place. $500.00 bucks opening bid bothered me - which made me wonder about their authenticity. I was obviously coming to the wrong conclusion, but it sounds like my instincts weren't entirely off.
You may not want to go into it here, but I would be very interested to hear what happened.
Thanks.

[ This Message was edited by: Jamoorea 2015-06-29 14:56 ]


 
View Profile of Jamoorea Send a personal message to Jamoorea      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
nomeus
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 422
Posted: 2015-06-29 6:47 pm   Permalink

it isnt too crazy but basically its like this... this isnt the first listing. they had them listed for way less.

ok so basically i think the seller just didnt know what was going on and didnt trust what i was saying. ultimately i lost these mugs due to my own error but the seller really messed me up by not doing what i asked and suggested. instead they listened to ebays horrible advice.

first the mugs were listed starting at 35.00. i emailed the seller and offered them like 200.00. they canceled the listing and instead of adding best offer option, they listened to ebay and made a whole new auction without the offer option. didnt even include a buy it now option. there is so much frustration with what happened that i dont even know where to begin. let me try short version...

mugs start at 35.00

i offer 200, and suggest to add buy it now option

seller waits too long and now has a bid

ebay suggested to cancel and start over

i offer 250 to try to speed up the process

seller makes new listing with mugs starting at like 35 again i believe

i place bid for 250 and tell seller to cancel 2nd listing because this will never work

seller gets in argument with me saying that they dont see my bid of 250. then yes they do see the bid but the HIGH bid is only like 35.

i explain thats correct because until someone outbids me, im winning at 35. seller doesnt understand.

many emails back and forth

now going into another day..in a panic i offer 500 just to end this ordeal

seller ends listing starts new one at 500. doesnt tell me and doesnt tell me it is for only 1 day

for whatever reason i forget about this situation and sure enough, i miss out on the whole thing

a few minutes after it ends (i think 500 or 550) i offer the seller 1000, stating to just cancel the transaction and sell to me via paypal invoice

seller is "afraid to ruin my perfect ebay rating and im sorry i cannot do that"... a perfect rating with 239 pieces of feedback? ha ok


there you go...i lost out. i partially blame the seller and of course myself. the whole thing is maddening to me as i have been looking for those mugs for almost 2 years.









_________________
getting drunk is like borrowing happiness from tomorrow

[ This Message was edited by: nomeus 2015-06-29 18:52 ]


 
View Profile of nomeus Send a personal message to nomeus  Email nomeus     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Tattoo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 296
From: Los Angeles
Posted: 2015-06-29 10:20 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2015-06-29 18:47, nomeus wrote:
it isnt too crazy but basically its like this... this isnt the first listing. they had them listed for way less.

ok so basically i think the seller just didnt know what was going on and didnt trust what i was saying. ultimately i lost these mugs due to my own error but the seller really messed me up by not doing what i asked and suggested. instead they listened to ebays horrible advice.

first the mugs were listed starting at 35.00. i emailed the seller and offered them like 200.00. they canceled the listing and instead of adding best offer option, they listened to ebay and made a whole new auction without the offer option. didnt even include a buy it now option. there is so much frustration with what happened that i dont even know where to begin. let me try short version...

mugs start at 35.00

i offer 200, and suggest to add buy it now option

seller waits too long and now has a bid

ebay suggested to cancel and start over

i offer 250 to try to speed up the process

seller makes new listing with mugs starting at like 35 again i believe

i place bid for 250 and tell seller to cancel 2nd listing because this will never work

seller gets in argument with me saying that they dont see my bid of 250. then yes they do see the bid but the HIGH bid is only like 35.

i explain thats correct because until someone outbids me, im winning at 35. seller doesnt understand.

many emails back and forth

now going into another day..in a panic i offer 500 just to end this ordeal

seller ends listing starts new one at 500. doesnt tell me and doesnt tell me it is for only 1 day

for whatever reason i forget about this situation and sure enough, i miss out on the whole thing

a few minutes after it ends (i think 500 or 550) i offer the seller 1000, stating to just cancel the transaction and sell to me via paypal invoice

seller is "afraid to ruin my perfect ebay rating and im sorry i cannot do that"... a perfect rating with 239 pieces of feedback? ha ok


there you go...i lost out. i partially blame the seller and of course myself. the whole thing is maddening to me as i have been looking for those mugs for almost 2 years.









_________________
getting drunk is like borrowing happiness from tomorrow

[ This Message was edited by: nomeus 2015-06-29 18:52 ]



Two years... I've been looking for those mugs for close to ten. And I am sure some have been looking for those for much longer than that. Last time they came up the same shenanigans occurred where someone offered some bs price for them and they were pulled off the market. That is however another story.

I saw the Beachcomber mugs listing and put a bid in. Knowing very well they are worth well over $250 each if not more. I respect the open market and yes, sometimes you get lucky with a misspelled listing or what have you. Then the seller sends me an e-mail telling me he's pulling them off the market because someone offered him an undisclosed amount. I am sorry, but I have ZERO sympathy for someone trying undercut all other bidders by secretly manipulating the seller to pull an item off the market and not letting the auction run its course. Now you want us to feel sorry for you because you did not get those mugs for less than obviously what they are worth?

"first the mugs were listed starting at 35.00. i emailed the seller and offered them like 200.00. "

You knew that those mugs were worth more and if other people found out about this listing that it would go for more. Why else contact the seller and try to have pull them off the market? You want me to feel sympathy for you that you did not get those mugs for a $100 a piece? Why did you not offer a $1000 if that is what apparently now - after the fact - what you were willing to pay for them? But you are the victim and the seller is the bad guy....

According to you, "the seller really messed me up by not doing what i asked and suggested" which was to sell them to you for $200. I can see how you feel that way but I can't help but feel that the seller did not mess up.

Then someone wins the actual auction for $550 and now you are upset that the seller won't cancel the winning bid so he can sell them to you? Cancel a transaction that was honestly won in an auction so you can get it because you've been dishonest and manipulative? Uhm... why would he trust you? You tried to rob him of over $300.

And no, I did not get them.

[ This Message was edited by: Tattoo 2015-06-30 10:28 ]


 
View Profile of Tattoo Send a personal message to Tattoo  Email Tattoo     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Jamoorea
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Nov 01, 2014
Posts: 22
Posted: 2015-06-30 12:53 am   Permalink

Yeah, I have to agree, that wasn't exactly the story of the evil, devil worshiping seller I was hoping for.
I am also not a fan of this backdoor offer business. The seller's shouldn't be allowed to take them and it's unethical for buyers to try and knock others out of the running this way. An auction is an auction and should run it's course. If the thing doesn't sell - then an offer can be discussed privately after.

On these mugs in particular, I've been collecting this stuff since the 70's and granted, I had never seen these - so I can understand their appeal for being rare and from the original Hollywood location. But frankly, they just aren't that good. They look like a tweaked catalog item the manufacturer included in an order for lack of any better ideas. Certainly not worth a thousand bucks - come on. But it IS a fact in collecting, that sometimes the uglier the piece, the rarer it is because they go right into the trash. The little coconut mugs, for instance, are cuter and therefore harder to throw away - so you see a lot of them.

On losing this auction - as rare as they might seem - they make lots of mugs when they build a run like this and more than once I've fought a fierce battle over something and lost, only to have another one pop up the next week - better and with no competition. It has happened the other way too - where I HAVE won after painfully over bidding.
I think you guys should count yourselves lucky you didn't win these at 560 bucks and quietly offer your condolences to the poor sap that did.

[ This Message was edited by: Jamoorea 2015-06-30 11:50 ]


 
View Profile of Jamoorea Send a personal message to Jamoorea      Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
nomeus
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 422
Posted: 2015-06-30 1:39 pm   Permalink

i never asked anyone to feel sorry or sympathy for me and i feel no shame for offering a seller of any item, any price. i dont know the value of those mugs but of course i felt they were worth more than 200 for the pair. ive been making offers to sellers for certain items for years and will continue to do so. youre entitled to your opinion and im entitled to handle my transactions however i see fit. im surely not the only person that does this as it has happened to me. in fact, it just recently happened with that extra long tiki gardens matchbook. seller claimed the cat ate it. i asked for pics of damage and they never replied. ive had plenty of sellers happily cancel listings and invoice me through paypal. it is what it is. speaking for myself, if i want something bad enough, ill work whatever angle i can to get it. no remorse and surely wont lose sleep over it.

 
View Profile of nomeus Send a personal message to nomeus  Email nomeus     Edit/Delete This Post Reply with quote
Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
U-Moderate:
  
v1.5

[ About Tiki Central | Contact Tiki Central | Advertise on Tiki Central ]
(c) 2000-2017 Tikiroom.com (tm), Tiki Central (tm)

Credits & copyright infomation