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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Drinks and Food Lemon Hart 151 is coming back ... AGAIN!
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Lemon Hart 151 is coming back ... AGAIN!
Tonga Tiki
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Joined: Nov 14, 2006
Posts: 184
From: The Tonga Lounge in Safety Harbor, FL
Posted: 2017-01-27 10:08 am   Permalink

No more Bacardi 151! Now what am I going to use to clean bugs off my front bumper?

 
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kkocka
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 23, 2013
Posts: 749
Posted: 2017-01-27 12:25 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-01-25 12:34, RumScrummager wrote: If you see one at your local liquor store, be sure to pick it up just for the heck of it.



Sounds like a waste of money to me! From now on, my basic 151 is gonna be Cruzan.
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arcadiandj
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Joined: Feb 03, 2016
Posts: 48
Posted: 2017-01-28 2:02 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-01-27 12:25, kkocka wrote:
Quote:

On 2017-01-25 12:34, RumScrummager wrote: If you see one at your local liquor store, be sure to pick it up just for the heck of it.



Sounds like a waste of money to me! From now on, my basic 151 is gonna be Cruzan.



kkocka why do you choose the Cruzan over say Hamilton? And what is your most frequent use of the 151 Cruzan? I'm relatively new to tiki drinks and have only used Hamilton and my recently acquired Lemon Hart (which I think I am enjoying more than the Hamilton fwiw). This summer, at the Bootlegger in Palm Springs I was surprised to have had the best Zombie I've ever had-that was made with Cruzan 151! I have yet to try it, as my understanding from the purists is that Hamilton is the new holy grail of 151s for tiki drinks, but "I want to learn more!"


 
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LeftarmofBuddha
Tiki Centralite

Joined: May 31, 2016
Posts: 21
From: Murfreesboro Tenn
Posted: 2017-01-28 9:26 pm   Permalink

arcadiandj, I believe most people are using Cruzan, Bacardi, and other spanish style 151 rums more as flaming rum for presentation, not the way us tikiphiles use Demerara 151, like LemonHart or Hamilton, as a flavor and proof boosting rum. The light bodied 151 rums are light on flavor where the Demerara 151's and Plantation OFTD are packed full of flavor that mixes well in cocktails. At least, that is the way I understand it.

 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-01-30 07:41 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-01-28 21:26, LeftarmofBuddha wrote:
arcadiandj, I believe most people are using Cruzan, Bacardi, and other spanish style 151 rums more as flaming rum for presentation, not the way us tikiphiles use Demerara 151, like LemonHart or Hamilton, as a flavor and proof boosting rum. The light bodied 151 rums are light on flavor where the Demerara 151's and Plantation OFTD are packed full of flavor that mixes well in cocktails. At least, that is the way I understand it.



I agree with LeftarmofBuddha. Bacardi 151 brought extra alcohol to a drink, but also a certain harshness which is not found in the better 151's. Therefore it was most often used at my bar for flaming garnishes and little else.

I just checked my local Total Wine and found they did not have any Bacardi 151 in stock, and I did not see shelf space for it.

I suggest avoiding any temptation to use pure grain alcohol (like Everclear 190 proof) for flaming. It is more flammable than 151 and could be much more risky and dangerous to use. I have stocked up on, and switched to, lemon extract which has a mix of pleasant lemon oil and alcohol. I use 190 proof pure grain alcohol to extend the refrigerator shelf life of my syrups.

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kkocka
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Joined: Jul 23, 2013
Posts: 749
Posted: 2017-01-30 10:51 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-01-28 14:02, arcadiandj wrote:
kkocka why do you choose the Cruzan over say Hamilton? And what is your most frequent use of the 151 Cruzan?



Hamilton 151 and Lemon Hart I personally reserve for drinks that rely or highlight a quality overproof rum. So for example, if I'm making a 151 Swizzle or a Zombie, I'll use one of the good overproofs. If I'm making a drink where the recipe calls for a spanish style overproof or basically a non-demerara overproof, I'll go with Cruzan. Or, lastly, if I'm making a drink that calls for Bacardi 151 then I'll use Cruzan instead.

There are several recipes in Beachbum Berry Remixed that call for non-demerara 151 and they're called out as (Cruzan, Bacardi, El Dorado). There are certain flavor profiles associated w/the Hamilton and Lemon Hart rums that don't necessarily need to be in certain drinks (smokiness, burnt molasses etc) in my theory. Then again, some people will only put in the top quality stuff when an overproof is called out.

Plus, you have to consider cost and availability of rums too. Red label Lemon Hart is gone, so I reserve that mostly for when I make drinks for myself or really wanna treat friends. Otherwise I might use the Hamilton. Then again, Hamilton is a little costly at times and I have to go to specific liquor stores for it, so maybe the Cruzan will. do. It's really a matter of preference - this is just my take on it.
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hang10tiki
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Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Posts: 7220
From: Las Vegas
Posted: 2017-04-08 10:46 pm   Permalink

Well that took forever




 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-04-09 11:27 am   Permalink

Last Friday I spotted LH151 on the shelf of one of my local neighborhood hole-in-the-wall liquor stores. If they are that successful with marketing the product - that it reaches even the neighborhood mom-and-pop liquor stores - then I take that as a sign that LH151 will be available for a long time to come. Unless, of course, the general public doesn't take a liking to LH151.

 
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RumScrummager
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Joined: Aug 19, 2016
Posts: 27
From: Ft. Lauderdale
Posted: 2017-04-09 11:14 pm   Permalink

Sorry to get back to this thread so late.

This is in response to AceExplorer's query regarding Stroh 80.

Here's my personal take:

Stroh is not even a rum - that is, in the modern sense of the word.

Just like Hum is a botanical 'spirit,' Stroh 80 is an Austrain rum-based 'spirit'. It really has very little to do with rum. For example, how many people actually knew that Midori is cognac-based? Exactly. Malibu is a rum-based coconut liqueur and Kahlua is a rum-based coffee liqueur. Rum is used for a LOT of bases. In Stroh's case, the rum component is merely the slave base. The rum base itself (as one would expect) is quite unremarkable and more akin to paint stripper or de-natured alcohol. 80% of these bases are made from by-products (using special centrifuges) since they cannot be traditionally processed.

However, due to savvy marketing and clever hype, Stroh 80 has become 'Stroh 160' and is now not only a rum, but a 'spiced rum.' Funny that.

Utilizing Jagermeister-worthy ad campaigns to promote the product in North America, including drinking games and slapping 'Stroh 160' labels over the old 'Stroh 80' labels (they didn't bother to pull the old bottles), they are trying to creep out of grandma's kitchen in Austria and appeal to the uber-hip, manbun-wearing North American crowd. Nothing wrong with that at all since ALL spirit companies are really marketing companies in disguise. Grey Goose and Sidney Frank taught us all about that donkey's years ago.

Just so people know, the change from 'Stroh 80' to 'Stroh 160' was only so they could tap into the higher proof/overproof market craze; the larger numbers look more impressive on the bottle you see. Ask any craft cocktail bar or mixologist and 80 proof is 'meh' nowadays.

Finally, the devil is in the detail: if you scrutinize the bottle label, it pretty much lists every ingredient that is (nowadays) considered anti-rum, anti-craft, and almost unethical. Artificial flavour, anyone? How about certified chemicals and colors? Or, how about a healthy dose of FD&C Yellow #5, perhaps?

ps. I actually happen to LOVE the product myself and use it in many of my Tiki cocktails. I sometimes force unsuspecting guests to take a shot too. However, I do not consider it a rum. To me, it is a great 'spike' - something very high-octane in terms of pushing heat, but not flavour.


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-04-10 06:07 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-04-09 23:14, RumScrummager wrote:
Sorry to get back to this thread so late.

This is in response to AceExplorer's query regarding Stroh 80.

Here's my personal take:

Stroh is not even a rum - that is, in the modern sense of the word.

Just like Hum is a botanical 'spirit,' Stroh 80 is an Austrain rum-based 'spirit'. It really has very little to do with rum. For example, how many people actually knew that Midori is cognac-based? Exactly. Malibu is a rum-based coconut liqueur and Kahlua is a rum-based coffee liqueur. Rum is used for a LOT of bases. In Stroh's case, the rum component is merely the slave base. The rum base itself (as one would expect) is quite unremarkable and more akin to paint stripper or de-natured alcohol. 80% of these bases are made from by-products (using special centrifuges) since they cannot be traditionally processed.

However, due to savvy marketing and clever hype, Stroh 80 has become 'Stroh 160' and is now not only a rum, but a 'spiced rum.' Funny that.

Utilizing Jagermeister-worthy ad campaigns to promote the product in North America, including drinking games and slapping 'Stroh 160' labels over the old 'Stroh 80' labels (they didn't bother to pull the old bottles), they are trying to creep out of grandma's kitchen in Austria and appeal to the uber-hip, manbun-wearing North American crowd. Nothing wrong with that at all since ALL spirit companies are really marketing companies in disguise. Grey Goose and Sidney Frank taught us all about that donkey's years ago.

Just so people know, the change from 'Stroh 80' to 'Stroh 160' was only so they could tap into the higher proof/overproof market craze; the larger numbers look more impressive on the bottle you see. Ask any craft cocktail bar or mixologist and 80 proof is 'meh' nowadays.

Finally, the devil is in the detail: if you scrutinize the bottle label, it pretty much lists every ingredient that is (nowadays) considered anti-rum, anti-craft, and almost unethical. Artificial flavour, anyone? How about certified chemicals and colors? Or, how about a healthy dose of FD&C Yellow #5, perhaps?

ps. I actually happen to LOVE the product myself and use it in many of my Tiki cocktails. I sometimes force unsuspecting guests to take a shot too. However, I do not consider it a rum. To me, it is a great 'spike' - something very high-octane in terms of pushing heat, but not flavour.



RumScrummager, thank you for the awesome post on Stroh 80 / Stroh 160. I don't disagree with any of your points, you made me re-think a few things on my end. Especially your point about the "base spirit" - I think you nailed that. Just for fun, I'll share some of my thoughts when I read your post:

1) You stated that it's not a "rum" really, and I hadn't really thought of it that way before. So I think it's really a "carrier" for all the other spices and flavors. I also see that the alcohol content between the various proofs does simply seem to be for heat, although I don't know if they also dial up or down the spice flavorings between proofs.

2) Marketing -- wow, didn't know they are re-labeling the Stroh 80 to be Stroh 160. That makes sense though since their competitor's products have been marketed by proof instead of percentage. Now, given a choice for flaming garnishes, I'm gonna guess that Stroh's 160 will be a bit more pleasing to the nose than another generic 151 rum, although Stroh's would be an expensive flaming agent, especially in light of the good availability of lemon extract.

Interesting point -- here in Flori-duh we're not allowed to import anything stronger than 151 proof. Stroh's 160 must be mail-ordered or carried in from surrounding states. I love checking liquor stores in other states when I'm travelling. It's always a surprise what you can find in smaller liquor stores. Just because a store is in a small town doesn't mean the owner won't carry some great stuff.

I also fully agree about Stroh's trying to "pull themselves out of grandma's kitchen in Austria." I think this is how they came to be so integrated into Austrian cooking and baking. The spices in Stroh's are heavenly for some baking applications. But for drinking, nah, unless you mix with it, which is really the only way I use it. Once in a rare while I'll take a small sip to re-familiarize myself with the flavor profile. But the 160 proof has a strong burn and interferes with sipping unless you water it down.

3) I don't recall ever reading the label and scrutinizing the ingredients. I'll definitely do that sometime. Sounds pretty crappy to me, and fortunately Stroh's tends to only be used as a minor ingredient in cocktails.

4) You and I are 100% in agreement on your final point -- I also love having Stroh's on hand. It really does have the ability to make some very good flavor contributions to cocktails. Frankie's Tiki Room demonstrates this quite well because they successfully use Stroh's in a number of their cocktails. Stroh's reminds me of how cinnamon syrup can provide a pleasant and subtle background flavor in a cocktail, except the Stroh's is MUCH stronger. It really is very good to have on hand. I definitely cannot bring myself to dismiss Stroh's entirely even though I wouldn't drink it neat. It does have good value for some drinks, but I don't think it's essential. Someday I may come to drop a few bucks on their Jagertee ("Hunter's tea") and give it a try. And - just for grins - every now and then I make people taste it too. It's pretty funny to watch their reactions.

Again, thanks for your response. It's difficult to get good feedback on this stuff. Too many people just don't want to touch it.



 
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Kraken007
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Nov 18, 2015
Posts: 80
From: Las Vegas
Posted: 2017-04-20 1:30 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-04-08 22:46, hang10tiki wrote:
Well that took forever






I got 3 bottles the other day!!! Finally!


 
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mikehooker
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jul 17, 2014
Posts: 910
From: Austin
Posted: 2017-04-20 3:21 pm   Permalink

Don't know if this needs it's own thread or just a mention here, but you could now find the 1804 and spiced Lemon Harts on the shelves in Austin. The 1804 is a 80 proof demerara. I picked up a bottle in Vancouver a couple years ago and it was underwhelming (still haven't finished it). This will not fill the void for the old yellow label 80 proof if anyone was getting their hopes up... assuming this bottling is the same recipe as what they had in Canada a while back.

The spiced rum is surprisingly good if you need a spiced rum in your life but neither of these are essential for me to keep stocked. Nor is the new bottling of 151. For the time being I'm happy using Hamilton 151 for guests, red label LH151 for myself or people I really like (still have 7 bottles in reserve), and for 80 proof I often go with El Dorado 12.




 
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Hurricane Hayward
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Joined: Jun 07, 2008
Posts: 1395
From: 16 miles from The Mai-Kai
Posted: 2017-04-20 5:31 pm   Permalink

I plan to check out the 80-proof Lemon Hart this weekend at Miami Rum Festival. I haven't seen it (or the spiced) on the shelves in any Florida stores. If anyone has seen it down here, do let me know.



The reviews I've seen are similar to Mike's, so I'm not getting my hopes up. I have none of the original yellow label 80 left, but I do still have a blend that's basically a diluted and decanted red label 151. It's what The Mai-Kai was using before Hamilton 86 came along. But now, between that and the various El Dorado ages (I lean toward ED8), there's not much reason to hunt it down.

Curious to taste the spiced, though. Foursquare Spiced seems to be the gold standard among those I've tasted.
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okoolihau
Member

Joined: Aug 17, 2015
Posts: 8
From: Philadelphia
Posted: 2017-04-21 11:09 am   Permalink

Supposedly here in Philly, we can buy it and have it shipped to a state liquor store. Since you have to call the 1 800 number for this one, my husband has been trying to get somebody on the line to confirm and then buy a bottle. So far, not luck.
Living in where the state runs the liquor store is exhausting.

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Early Landed Larry
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Apr 17, 2017
Posts: 94
Posted: 2017-04-27 4:41 pm   Permalink

Do any of you have experience with Lemon Hart 151 and Plantation OFTD?

Do you think the Plantation would be a reasonable substitute? (Let's suppose you literally couldn't get the LH). The reason I ask is I'm based in the UK, and we can't get Lemon Hart (nor Hamilton, Cruzan, or Coruba.. the list goes on).

I suspect it may be the best I am able to do, and the reviews are certainly great! - but it's way more pricey than the LH seems to go for Stateside.



 
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