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Tiki Central Forums General Tiki We need to talk about your kitsch problem...
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We need to talk about your kitsch problem...
The_Alchemist
Member

Joined: Jul 20, 2017
Posts: 4
Posted: 2017-07-28 09:58 am   Permalink

I recently attended a lecture that had a bit in it about cultural appropriation, they had a few simple things to check to see if it was problematic. The first thing was could a person from the originating culture enjoy the thing as freely as I do it derivative. I suppose for this discussion that means that if my collection of Tikis is Kitschy fun but a poc collection is a sign of his backwards primitive leanings then it problematic. I'm not say that is the case just trying to make an example case. The second check point I remember is where does the money go, do people of the originating culture have the same opportunity to make money off their things.

 
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EnchantedTikiGoth
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Posts: 234
From: Calgary, Canada
Posted: 2017-07-30 08:10 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-07-28 09:58, The_Alchemist wrote:
I recently attended a lecture that had a bit in it about cultural appropriation, they had a few simple things to check to see if it was problematic. The first thing was could a person from the originating culture enjoy the thing as freely as I do it derivative. I suppose for this discussion that means that if my collection of Tikis is Kitschy fun but a poc collection is a sign of his backwards primitive leanings then it problematic. I'm not say that is the case just trying to make an example case. The second check point I remember is where does the money go, do people of the originating culture have the same opportunity to make money off their things.



No, I would not consider a native Hawaiian or Samoan to be "backwards" because they had the same Disney Tiki mugs and decorative mermaid figures I have.


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-07-30 12:41 pm   Permalink

Thought-provoking questions! Tiki "happened" or "developed" in our American culture. It was organic, playful, and never intended to poke fun at anyone. Pure and innocent escapism is what it was, and it grew organically, even more so after WWII.

So I often wonder if we have any right to complain when someone today decorates with painted clown tikis, or with monsters in a tropical/tiki context, or with surf music. They seem to be doing the same thing --- escaping, and decorating, and celebrating life, innocently and playfully but in a "new" way. Seems dang close to the same thing that happened when tiki originaly was developing.

I need another drink... I'm actually sipping on an Old Fashioned right now. Not really tiki, but tastes damn fine, so go ahead and flame me, lol. Cheers!

_________________
"Iss confusing." --Inspector Sydney Wang, in Neil Simon's "Murder by Death"


 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 4479
Posted: 2017-07-30 2:31 pm   Permalink

"So I often wonder if we have any right to complain when someone today decorates with painted clown tikis"

Ha! I don't know if we have a right to, but we do anyway.


bahi hut being ruined with clown tikis
http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/viewtopic.php?topic=52262&forum=1&17

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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-07-30 3:18 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-07-30 14:31, tikiskip wrote:
Ha! I don't know if we have a right to, but we do anyway.



That's exactly the dilemma. THEY own the business, so they have the right to do whatever they want, even run it into the ground. WE are "only passionate fans" who sometimes know better than they do about historical tiki, and we really care about OUR view of tiki. But if they are in a struggle for survival, or cluelessly make bad hiring and management decisions, then we may see the Bahi Hut's type of unfortunate circumstance.

On the other hand, this whole tiki thing is fake/alternate reality anyways, so it's very ironic and sometimes I wonder to what degree we should get worked up about it. In the Bahi Hut's case, I think robotiki has done a great service to everyone by reaching out to the owner and providing education and enlightenment. Let's see how this plays out.

Man, the irony... Saving one fake thing to ensure OUR preferred fake thing survives in its place. Haha. Hahahaha. Hahahahaha!

Hey, thank the tiki gods for all this -- we all have a reason to have drinks!!!


 
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EnchantedTikiGoth
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Posts: 234
From: Calgary, Canada
Posted: 2017-07-30 10:06 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-07-30 12:41, AceExplorer wrote:
So I often wonder if we have any right to complain when someone today decorates with painted clown tikis, or with monsters in a tropical/tiki context, or with surf music. They seem to be doing the same thing --- escaping, and decorating, and celebrating life, innocently and playfully but in a "new" way. Seems dang close to the same thing that happened when tiki originaly was developing.



I think you're conflating two different concerns here. One is the inclusion of items that are not traditionally Tiki, the other is items produced at a significantly lower quality.

On the former, I say different strokes for different folks... It would be kind of boring, frankly, if everyone stuck to a petrified set of identical, approved tropes and fixtures. Some like it very traditional to the mid-century Tiki experience, others want to throw in some Rockabilly or Surf, others want to throw in mid-century style monster kitsch, others pirates. That's fine. My own interests right now are towards a "fantasy Tiki" that unapologetically includes Disney and mermaids and monsters and such things, and towards a "pri-Tiki" ranging from Victorian to Thirties "Golden Age" of travel and Hollywood aesthetics (basically pre-WWII).

On the latter... well... we're talking about what looks good and what does not look good. It's not a subject we necessarily have the power to affect, since it's not like Party City is going anywhere and we can't forcibly stop anyone from shopping there, but we do have the liberty to make artistic judgments. We can say if something looks like crap, regardless of whether or not it's "authentic" Tiki. We can appreciate that people are having fun, and still point out that there's better looking stuff out there to have fun with.



 
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tikitube
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Apr 25, 2017
Posts: 95
From: Ozark Underwater Cliffs
Posted: 2017-08-03 11:09 am   Permalink

Regarding cultural appropriation, I just ran across this article about a child having a "Japanese theme" birthday party. The response from an actual Japanese commenter is interesting, and I wondered if the same argument couldn't be made for tiki culture.

http://www.boredpanda.com/japanese-tea-party-tumblr-answer-ginzers/?utm_source=obwu&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=fio



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lunavideogames
Grand Member (5 years)  

Joined: May 09, 2012
Posts: 1848
From: San Diego
Posted: 2017-08-03 11:49 am   Permalink

Wow Tikitube thanks for sharing! Perfect explanation there.

Basically this is exactly what I have been trying (not as well as this person) to convey. We are appreciating this culture, none of our actions are to poke fun or to slander. We are spreading this tiki culture, that is just as much ours as anyone elses, in a positive light. Nothing in tiki is to make fun of or to demoralize any cultures or groups of people.

We should fight against this plague. I for one will boycott for life the Oregon State University Asian and Pacific Cultural Center for jumping on this bandwagon of racism that attacked this tiki bar. Who do they think that their patrons are!?!

[ This Message was edited by: lunavideogames 2017-08-03 11:52 ]


 
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EnchantedTikiGoth
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Posts: 234
From: Calgary, Canada
Posted: 2017-08-04 12:27 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-08-03 11:09, tikitube wrote:
Regarding cultural appropriation, I just ran across this article about a child having a "Japanese theme" birthday party. The response from an actual Japanese commenter is interesting, and I wondered if the same argument couldn't be made for tiki culture.

http://www.boredpanda.com/japanese-tea-party-tumblr-answer-ginzers/?utm_source=obwu&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=fio




TYRANNOSAURUS REKT! That was amazing!


 
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