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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Drinks and Food Triple Old Fashioned?
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Triple Old Fashioned?
AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-08-16 06:32 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-08-16 05:42, tikitube wrote:
doesn't the old fashioned design offer some benefit for "rocks" drinks that a Collins or highball would not, thereby necessitating the existence of a TOF glass IF it called for that much volume AND rocks? Or would the volume of said drink by its very nature render the rocks ineffectual?



A good question for more discussion! You're right about "rocks" drinks. There is an issue with ice which can be addressed by choice of glassware. Shorter and stubbier glassware can make it more difficult for ice to shift and inflict a sudden cascade of ice onto face and into lap of the drinker. Inserting short skinny cocktail straws is intended to help, but to me, does help but is not entirely effective. The skinny straws are not intended for sucking up the drink, but to help stabilize ice in the glass while it is tilted back toward the drinker. Note that the drinker is expected to manage his ice. Some garnishes can help too, like a huge pineapple wedge. Or using an ice ball versus using smaller cubes. Bartenders know that drinkers do not (mostly) sip some things through straws because it's just not done, like whiskies neat or other cocktails on the rocks, so that's not what the straws are there for. But as we head in the direction of more complex cocktails, and especially those served in taller glassware (like tiki drinks,) straws are quite acceptable, or fully expected by the experienced drinker, and in some cases essential to helping manage the risk of icy disaster. Not many are aware of the role a straw is intended to play in managing your drink. For a pro bartender, a good experience often leads to a good or better tip, so straws are often seen as an essential accessory for some drinks.


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-08-16 06:51 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-08-16 06:31, swizzle wrote:
Well to me you definitely seem to come across as defending it. Who in hell orders a double of ANYTHING besides a nip of spirits???



I will debate you a bit on this. The bartender makes the choice of glassware based on drink volume. This must take into account the ice cubes and how many (or how few) are used when the drink is made. From the beginning in this thread I have been careful to include references to drink volume in my comments. A Mai Tai is NOT required to be served in a single or double glass, but in an appropriate glass. It is about drink volume. I have to make this decision time and time again when serving various cocktails in coupe glasses or in Nick & Nora glasses. I must know in advance what volume to expect after my shaking, and then well in advance I choose an appropriately-sized glass before I even build the drink in front of you. If I overestimate and use too large of a glass, the penalty to the recipient or customer could be that a bartender adds too much ice, or too much mixer, as a filler which then would dilute the drink. (I work hard not to ever allow an over-diluted drink to be made, I have better ways of fixing if I run into a problem or make a mistake.) I work hard and have learned to avoid this, and I've become pretty dang good at it. We all eventually come to learn that there is a skill and knowledge element involved in making drinks. At some point it is beyond simply reading a recipe and mixing stuff. Mixing and choosing glassware is something you come to learn with time and experience. And by writing this out I'm trying to share the path I have been on. I hope you will see this as such, just some friendly sharing of my experience and take as a result of my experience.

If you were to order a double Mai Tai from me, you have to first insist, and then you would get it in an appropriate glass along with a polite warning about dilution if you were to drink it too slowly.

If you were to order a single shot of something neat from me, you would get an appropriate glass. Even more so if you were to order a double shot.


 
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swizzle
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 03, 2007
Posts: 1170
From: Melbourne,Australia
Posted: 2017-08-16 06:51 am   Permalink

Quote:


On 2017-08-16 05:42, tikitube wrote:
doesn't the old fashioned design offer some benefit for "rocks" drinks that a Collins or highball would not, thereby necessitating the existence of a TOF glass IF it called for that much volume AND rocks? Or would the volume of said drink by its very nature render the rocks ineffectual?




What exactly are we talking about here??? Drinks you order at a bar or drinks you make for yourself at home?

How much ice do you want with your booze? Or, how much booze do you want with your ice?
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-08-16 07:02 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-08-16 06:51, swizzle wrote:
What exactly are we talking about here??? Drinks you order at a bar or drinks you make for yourself at home?

How much ice do you want with your booze? Or, how much booze do you want with your ice?



I think I may have expanded this to both home bars and pro bars, thinking that both are relevant to the discussion. I have experience with both, and I hope I'm helpful in forwarding the discussion.

I have really been studying glassware more closely over the past two years. I have also been hunting some elusive glassware in thrifts up and down my state of Florida as I travel, vacation, etc. so this topic really piqued my interest and really sparked my desire to chime in and exchange thoughts and ideas with you all. Holy moly, swizzle, you're in Australia, that's cool!
_________________


 
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swizzle
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 03, 2007
Posts: 1170
From: Melbourne,Australia
Posted: 2017-08-16 07:24 am   Permalink

Ace!!! Are you are bartender by profession or trade?

And being in Australia does not mean shit. You have no idea what our liquor laws are like.


[ This Message was edited by: swizzle 2017-08-16 07:26 ]


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-08-16 08:09 am   Permalink

Not by trade, I have a primary career which is different. I serve at sports venues (football stadium and local sports arena) plus at a couple concert venues. Tiki got me started and into a lot of other things. The good thing is I get very in-depth "alcohol training" almost once a year, so I'm very up on liquor laws and good practices. I'm a pretty safe (low-risk) bartender even at my home which is a good thing.

I've seen other posts about liquor laws in Australia, so sorry. We have a few strange things to contend with here too. In Florida, less than a year ago, we overturned a law from back in the 1920's from prohibition. Now we can buy and take home beer in 2-litre "growlers" from local microbreweries. We still cannot buy any distilled spirit more than 151 in proof in Florida, so I have to visit liquor stores in adjacent states, or I order my Stroh's 160 from New York and have it shipped in.

Cheers, mate!


 
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tikitube
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Apr 25, 2017
Posts: 94
From: Ozark Underwater Cliffs
Posted: 2017-08-16 3:21 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-08-16 06:31, swizzle wrote:
Well to me you definitely seem to come across as defending it. Who in hell orders a double of ANYTHING besides a nip of spirits???

"Bartender, could you please make me a double Mai Tai?". "Bartender, could i please have a double Cosmopolitan?". Bartender, give me a double beer?". " You mean a larger glass???". "Yeah".

The old fashioned glass is named so because of the drink. I have no idea where, or why, a double old fashioned glass came from or exists, but regardless, it does and it is the perfect size for a Mai Tai. Technically it's not a Mai Tai glass at all, it's a double old fashioned which happens to fit a Mai Tai perfectly. But no-one asks for a Mai Tai and a half!!!







If you mean me, I wouldn't use the term "marketing ploy" in defending something. And I didn't mean to suggest that someone would ask for a "double" Mai Tai, but rather how folks in ordinary bars might ask for a whiskey double.


 
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tikitube
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Apr 25, 2017
Posts: 94
From: Ozark Underwater Cliffs
Posted: 2017-08-16 3:39 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-08-16 07:02, AceExplorer wrote:
Quote:

On 2017-08-16 06:51, swizzle wrote:
What exactly are we talking about here??? Drinks you order at a bar or drinks you make for yourself at home?

How much ice do you want with your booze? Or, how much booze do you want with your ice?



I think I may have expanded this to both home bars and pro bars, thinking that both are relevant to the discussion. I have experience with both, and I hope I'm helpful in forwarding the discussion.

I have really been studying glassware more closely over the past two years. I have also been hunting some elusive glassware in thrifts up and down my state of Florida as I travel, vacation, etc. so this topic really piqued my interest and really sparked my desire to chime in and exchange thoughts and ideas with you all. Holy moly, swizzle, you're in Australia, that's cool!




Well, I really appreciate the discussion from everyone. As I said, this is all very new to me, and while shopping for secondhand glassware your insight has helped a lot. Your passion for this subject is apparent, and it is enjoyable to read about your experiences.

I started by reading through Smugglers Cove and noting the most common glasses used in various drink recipes - coupes, footed pilsners, double old fashioned, and highballs. Then, I hit the thrift store for 8 to 10 of each of them. Maybe not the most enlightened way of going about things but most of the glasses were 50 cents and I had an additional 20 percent off coupon.

I saw no triples, of course, and in fact I am now thinking that most of the old fashioned glasses I found will hold no more than 10oz. So maybe the doubles aren't even as common as I thought in my neck of the woods.


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 2175
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2017-08-16 5:22 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2017-08-16 15:39, tikitube wrote:
I started by reading through Smugglers Cove and noting the most common glasses used in various drink recipes - coupes, footed pilsners, double old fashioned, and highballs. Then, I hit the thrift store for 8 to 10 of each of them. Maybe not the most enlightened way of going about things but most of the glasses were 50 cents and I had an additional 20 percent off coupon.

I saw no triples, of course, and in fact I am now thinking that most of the old fashioned glasses I found will hold no more than 10oz. So maybe the doubles aren't even as common as I thought in my neck of the woods.



You're hooked! But you're in good company here. Have fun with it. That's how I started too. And the thrifts are great places to buy glassware at awesome prices. Spend your money on the drink ingredients and make your own syrups and things. Life is good!


 
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