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Tiki Central Forums General Tiki International Market Place Will be horribly razed
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International Market Place Will be horribly razed
lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2013-11-12 11:22 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-11-12 10:40, Mongoloid wrote:

Where is that, Kapaa?



Yes just down the road from Coco Palms.
[/quote]

ah yes. We stayed right next to that place. Lots of good food, but nothing like the IMP.....I actually ate most of my evening meals at the Trees lounge which is also next door, in the same complex. A little off topic of course, but Trees lounge has some of the best fish skewers I have ever eaten.


 
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lucas vigor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 3985
From: SOCAL
Posted: 2013-11-12 11:25 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-11-12 10:53, PiPhiRho wrote:
We had great fun in Waikiki. John-O's guide from a while back was good. We found the House Without a Key and I do think that was the best Mai Tai, although the Maitai Degeneres at the Royal Hawaiian was also excellent. There was also a drink called "Great Wall" that was very well crafted and delicious. We found a jazz club, Lewers Lounge, at the same hotel that served wonderful coctails and great music. We took a dinner cruise on the Ali'i Kai catamaran that was great fun. We found some smaller places serving local food inexpensively. Everything else is a chain. It's like Rodeo drive in places. Overpriced restaurants and shops that I could find anywhere in LA or New York. The hotels near the beach are luxury plus, but monstrously expensive. We stayed at a hotel near the canal that was much more affordable, but was the tiniest room I think I have ever stayed in. Not even a chair to sit in or a table to put anything on and very spotty internet access.

A Sax 5th Avenue will hardly be noticed among all of the other major department stores. The IMP was like a landmark. It was the only thing that looked different from everything else, and in the evening the trees were filled with birds, their songs blending with the sounds of the water in the fountains. the open air bars abd treehouse restaurants were a pleasnat escape from the rampant consumerism everywhere else.

I am not saying I will not return to Honolulu, but if I do I will not stay in Waikiki. I will stay outside of Waikiki and take the bus into Waikiki if I go there. Unless I win the lottery and have enough money to stay at a $400 and up a night hotel. Thw maybe I might spend a day or two at the Royal Hawaiian or the Halekulani or one of the others.




I really don't go to hawaii expecting there to be much vintage poly pop. I gave up on that a long time ago, and just enjoy Hawaii (all the islands) for what they are. If In was to stay on Oahu again, I seriously am interested in only two places: Aulani and Turtle Bay. Neither of them are tiki, but they are off the beaten path. I have really never liked Waikiki much, anyway. Last time we stayed at the sheraton...it was just ok. The beach is terrible, and there is a lot of fishing and drug activity going on after dark. I would avoid it. it's a lot like Nawililiwili on kauai, now.
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christiki295
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3813
From: LA-2547 mls east Hawaii &5500 Easter Is
Posted: 2013-11-12 10:57 pm   Permalink

[quote]
On 2013-11-12 11:25, lucas vigor wrote:
Quote:


I really don't go to Hawaii expecting there to be much vintage poly pop.




It may be that the only two places for vintage poly pop are La Mariana and what used to be the Hawaiiana Hotel dorm.






I know the Tiki Road Trip has the paragraphs about how Hawaii is not necessarily enamored with Tiki, but it was there, with the Hawaiian Hut and the IMP.








 
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tikiskip
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Nov 26, 2005
Posts: 2830
Posted: 2013-11-24 08:56 am   Permalink

I wonder if this place would have Asbestos in it?
This may be a way at least to delay the tear down.
May be too late for this.
Saw some stuff from the Kahiki that I would bet was Asbestos and they just
tore that down without any Asbestos abatement of any kind.
Wonder if that guy that was digging in the wreckage is ok?

If you can alert the EPA they can really be a bitch for plans like this.
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hang10tiki
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Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Posts: 3859
From: Las Vegas
Posted: 2013-11-28 1:03 pm   Permalink

Glad we got to see it one last time.....































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msteeln
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 281
From: Ka'a'awa, HI
Posted: 2013-12-01 2:31 pm   Permalink

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx
In Nov.'s issue of Waikiki Magazine (a tourist rag) is an article by Karyl Reynolds with some cool late '50s pix of the IMP and she assures us that "tho the heyday of Donn Beach's Coconut Bazzare is over the refurbished area for shopping and cultural sharing will maintain the welcoming atmosphere that was essential to the original IMP while hoping to bring vitality back in a way that honors the nostalgic Waikiki landmark".
While that sounds all good and well I'll be sure to bring my checkbook if hoping to at least eat lunch when it's rebuilt. Some of the old banyan will be saved and nothing else will remain of the old IMP.


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AceExplorer
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 999
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2013-12-01 4:27 pm   Permalink

Yesterday I received some information about the IMP from a friend who visited for a convention a few weeks ago. While I do believe him, I don't fully believe the story he was told. I'll go into some details as to why I am a bit skeptical about the story later, at the end of this post.

What he told me:
He spoke for a few minutes with a local resident who also gives tours of Waikiki. This person claimed that the issues with the IMP began when businesses of "lesser quality" began to take over and eventually dominate the IMP. Rental income and sales revenue declined. Then, eventually, the property management company began to have "problems" with many of the vendors who were increasingly "difficult to work with" and who "didn't maintain standards" imposed by the management company for cleanliness and appearance of their businesses. Booth sizes shrank but also increased in number. This created opportunities for lessees to bring in more relatives as booth tenants, and then the booth tenants complicated things by generally not performing maintenance and clean-up of their booths and spaces. They also sold very much the same stuff all over the place and created, and then also encouraged, a low-end flea-market appearance and atmosphere. This drove out other merchants, and caused a lot of visitors to turn up their noses at what had now become a low-end flea market. Businesses deeper in the core of the IMP suffered across the board and had a hard time maintaining inventory and paying higher rent in the face of making fewer sales. This widened the gap between what IMP offered and what other higher-end dining, fast food, and shopping venues offered next door to, and around, the IMP. Finally everyone running the place decided to throw in the towel and started looking at other ways to use the land and put an end to what they considered unrecoverable. The tour guide finished by saying that all is not lost, that somewhere a similar concept to the IMP was going to spring up, and that it would not be downtown in the middle of Waikiki.

Why I'm skeptical:
The management company, if they were competent, could have taken steps to prevent and address many of the things cited as causes in the story. Even if they were to terminate lease agreements with a large number of the supposedly "bad" tenants, then I imagine that they would have had both the power and the control necessary to handle these issues and to make a turnaround happen. I do, however, believe that an opportunity exists for something else to pop up elsewhere and make money using some of the old things that made the IMP successful.

Why I may not know what the hell I'm talking about:
My friend's story is purely word-of-mouth. And my reasons for being skeptical are purely my own speculation. None of these have any connection to any facts that I have heard from anyone else. Yes, we will all miss the IMP of long ago, but relatively few will miss the IMP of today. The fact remains that I have no idea what the landowners and management company were experiencing or what they were thinking. I also have no idea if they were simply approached by a big developer with a very attractive option which would make the "bad tenants" story just a bunch of baloney.

So let me leave it at that. We're now into the final month of the existence of the IMP and all we can do is wish everyone well. Things change and not always for the better. But we can at least hope that something good will rise up in the future to help balance out some of the mainland glitz and glamour with badly-needed local culture and history. It may take a few years of living with a cultural and historical void downtown in Waikiki for the citizens of Honolulu to come to recognize that. Let's hope they do.


 
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christiki295
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3813
From: LA-2547 mls east Hawaii &5500 Easter Is
Posted: 2013-12-01 8:36 pm   Permalink

Certainly could be true.
However, the Queen Emma Land Co. was thinking BIG, not just releasing the same property to higher-end retailers, but developing the entire Market Place, and the 6.48 acre parcel of the Waikiki Town Center, including a Saks.


 
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Phillip Roberts
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Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 1601
From: OAHU/Seattle
Posted: 2013-12-01 11:52 pm   Permalink

Aloha,
Quote:

On 2013-12-01 14:31, msteeln wrote:
http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx
In Nov.'s issue of Waikiki Magazine (a tourist rag) is an article by Karyl Reynolds with some cool late '50s pix of the IMP and she assures us that "tho the heyday of Donn Beach's Coconut Bazzare is over the refurbished area for shopping and cultural sharing will maintain the welcoming atmosphere that was essential to the original IMP while hoping to bring vitality back in a way that honors the nostalgic Waikiki landmark".



Nice job, Karyl Her article is here. (pp48-49)

Karyl edited "Waikiki Tiki: Art, History, and Photographs." I know her well.

Ace, let me form some thoughts on your post... I'll be back with comments.

12/7/2013 will be my last walking tour. If anyone's in town and want to hear Donn and see Tiki, come along.
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Available now from Bess Press Hawaii.

[ This Message was edited by: Phillip Roberts 2013-12-02 00:02 ]


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Beachbumz
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Jan 09, 2008
Posts: 1044
From: Kihei, Maui
Posted: 2013-12-02 12:22 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2013-12-01 16:27, AceExplorer wrote:
Yesterday I received some information about the IMP from a friend who visited for a convention a few weeks ago. While I do believe him, I don't fully believe the story he was told. I'll go into some details as to why I am a bit skeptical about the story later, at the end of this post.

What he told me:
He spoke for a few minutes with a local resident who also gives tours of Waikiki. This person claimed that the issues with the IMP began when businesses of "lesser quality" began to take over and eventually dominate the IMP. Rental income and sales revenue declined. Then, eventually, the property management company began to have "problems" with many of the vendors who were increasingly "difficult to work with" and who "didn't maintain standards" imposed by the management company for cleanliness and appearance of their businesses. Booth sizes shrank but also increased in number. This created opportunities for lessees to bring in more relatives as booth tenants, and then the booth tenants complicated things by generally not performing maintenance and clean-up of their booths and spaces. They also sold very much the same stuff all over the place and created, and then also encouraged, a low-end flea-market appearance and atmosphere. This drove out other merchants, and caused a lot of visitors to turn up their noses at what had now become a low-end flea market. Businesses deeper in the core of the IMP suffered across the board and had a hard time maintaining inventory and paying higher rent in the face of making fewer sales. This widened the gap between what IMP offered and what other higher-end dining, fast food, and shopping venues offered next door to, and around, the IMP. Finally everyone running the place decided to throw in the towel and started looking at other ways to use the land and put an end to what they considered unrecoverable. The tour guide finished by saying that all is not lost, that somewhere a similar concept to the IMP was going to spring up, and that it would not be downtown in the middle of Waikiki.

Why I'm skeptical:
The management company, if they were competent, could have taken steps to prevent and address many of the things cited as causes in the story. Even if they were to terminate lease agreements with a large number of the supposedly "bad" tenants, then I imagine that they would have had both the power and the control necessary to handle these issues and to make a turnaround happen. I do, however, believe that an opportunity exists for something else to pop up elsewhere and make money using some of the old things that made the IMP successful.

Why I may not know what the hell I'm talking about:
My friend's story is purely word-of-mouth. And my reasons for being skeptical are purely my own speculation. None of these have any connection to any facts that I have heard from anyone else. Yes, we will all miss the IMP of long ago, but relatively few will miss the IMP of today. The fact remains that I have no idea what the landowners and management company were experiencing or what they were thinking. I also have no idea if they were simply approached by a big developer with a very attractive option which would make the "bad tenants" story just a bunch of baloney.

So let me leave it at that. We're now into the final month of the existence of the IMP and all we can do is wish everyone well. Things change and not always for the better. But we can at least hope that something good will rise up in the future to help balance out some of the mainland glitz and glamour with badly-needed local culture and history. It may take a few years of living with a cultural and historical void downtown in Waikiki for the citizens of Honolulu to come to recognize that. Let's hope they do.



I've had a feeling for awhile that this is EXACTLY one of the main reasons...
I'm coming up on my 25th year here on Maui and have been working at the same Outdoor Marketplace here in Kihei for that entire time.. It was once called Maui's International Marketplace, similar to the IMP on a way smaller scale, even had a few large 10' tiki's out front to greet the tourists.. Unfortunately our market is in the same situation that the IMP has been going through for many years now.. Vendors getting the same products as everyone else, Tourists are being treated like crap and the market itself is not being kept up.. All this negative stuff cripples the market, tourists do not want to stay and shop here like they use too and hotels don't refer there guests to us like they use to.. There are roughly 30% in vacancies and it gets worst every year.. Why?? Terrible management of the property! It's very sad...
I remember going to the IMP when I moved here back in '89 and thinking what a great place to shop... A few years back I went and was in shock at how terrible it was... Everyone had the exact same thing, same price, same attitude, etc.. If it wasn't for the history, the Tiki's around the market and maybe that little shop upstairs that sells the cool vintage aloha shirts, I don't think I'll miss it (especially those awful mai tai's they sold at Tiki Town.. j/k that goes to Swizzle if your reading this.. I wish I could have experienced it in it's prime way back when, that would have been cool.. Aloha IMP..


 
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 999
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2013-12-02 06:23 am   Permalink

Yup, it was a massive de-evolution over the past 20 years. My first visit was in 1991 and I thought it was good then, and I remember being directed not to miss it. But now I am curious to know what, if anything, the property management company was doing. But also what the local Cultural Council, Better Business Bureau, tourism boards, etc. were doing or not doing. Is rip-out-and-remove (re-development) really the only answer to solve the sorts of problems the IMP had? In the face of the huge revenue benefits the Queen Emma Land Company will enjoy in future years, part of me cannot I blame them. But it is still a sad loss in light of what was there and was so successful in the past.

Alright, I think that's the 20th time I've said how sad, what a shame, etc. Time for me to move on and look forward to whatever new stuff is around the corner to fill the void which will be left by the loss of the IMP and leave downtown to the high-end guys. There are still many naturally beautiful and culturally significant places on the island to visit. The people who do some research will always be rewarded.


 
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msteeln
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 24, 2008
Posts: 281
From: Ka'a'awa, HI
Posted: 2013-12-02 1:11 pm   Permalink

The junk vendors always bitched up a storm whenever change was mentioned and mgt. backed off, that's how it's gone on and on as it is, now it'll be nothing but a memory of what was 50 years ago and few remember that. The change was inevitable and long overdue, that it'll be nothing cool like it was is typical and one less reason to bother with Waikiki. The various local and international powers have forever been aggressively eliminating the many things that made Hawaii special, starting with Hawaiians themselves. Save the historically significant Natatorium, The Moana, and the Royal Hawaiian and bulldoze the rest, start over with major height and style restrictions and focus on cultural aspects. In other words, forget it.

 
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christiki295
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3813
From: LA-2547 mls east Hawaii &5500 Easter Is
Posted: 2013-12-02 10:28 pm   Permalink

Quote:

[i]On 2013-12-02 13:11, msteeln wrote:
The various local and international powers have forever been aggressively eliminating the many things that made Hawaii special, starting with Hawaiians themselves. Save the historically significant Natatorium, The Moana, and the Royal Hawaiian and bulldoze the rest, start over with major height and style restrictions and focus on cultural aspects.



And the Hawaiiana - now Hawaiiana Cafe & Sushi.







 
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Phillip Roberts
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 1601
From: OAHU/Seattle
Posted: 2013-12-03 4:57 pm   Permalink

Aloha,

More press on the closing of the International Market Place in Honolulu Magazine

By David Thompson
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AceExplorer
Grand Member (3 years)  

Joined: Apr 03, 2008
Posts: 999
From: Deep in the Jacksonville Florida jungle.
Posted: 2013-12-03 8:29 pm   Permalink


Wow. Thanks for sharing the link to the article.

For future readers of this thread, I'm thinking that we might want to copy and paste the text of the entire article, and the photos, into this thread. There's no telling how long that article will remain online. It would be nice to have a copy of it here just in case something were to happen to the paper's web site. Not sure if that would be legal, etc.....


 
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