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Tiki Central Forums General Tiki International Market Place Will be horribly razed
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International Market Place Will be horribly razed
TikiPhil
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 21, 2004
Posts: 149
From: Riverside, CA
Posted: 2009-04-06 08:37 am   Permalink

Here's another good thread:
http://www.tikiroom.com/tikicentral/bb/viewtopic.php?topic=22376&forum=1

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Zeta
Grand Member (2 years)  

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 2049
From: Atlantis/Basque Country/Spain/Mexico
Posted: 2009-04-07 12:19 pm   Permalink

Vintage postcard

Evening at International Market Place


 
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Mongoloid
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 590
From: Long Beach
Posted: 2009-04-07 2:55 pm   Permalink

When i was a kid The International Market Place represented such a cool little tree house hideaway that breaks up the monotonous strip of high end souless stores. When you enter it you had the feeling that you might discover a rare treasure within the lush landscape and you have entered a world of natives. It has the potential to be such a great hub of Waikiki if used properly. The place seems to have been dying a slow death over the years with vendors selling mostly junk trinkets and begging browsers to buy their stuff practically Tijuana style. It needs to have some unique authentic stuff for sale, not just the same stuff you can find at Aloha stadium on the weekend for way cheaper. Im all about preserving it and seeing it thrive but i have noticed it getting a little dull when i was back their last. The Thor store is a prime example of the kind of diversification needs to take place.

[ This Message was edited by: Mongoloid 2009-04-07 15:02 ]


 
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christiki295
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3818
From: LA-2547 mls east Hawaii &5500 Easter Is
Posted: 2009-04-07 3:19 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2009-04-07 14:55, Mongoloid wrote:

It needs to have some unique authentic stuff for sale, not just the same stuff you can find at Aloha stadium on the weekend for way cheaper. . . . The Thor store is a prime example of the kind of diversification needs to take place.




Funny, but such a viewpoint is exactly what a developer would say, along with we can generate a much higher income by having the chain stores or stores that sell thousand dollar designer bags to female tourists - and they probably would be right. Much more profit would be generated.

Realistically, I doubt a developer would develop a space in that prime location and that large only for boutique stores. It would be a hotel; maybe some condos; and chain stores and expensive restaurants. In short, it would just like Ala Moana and every block along Kalakaua Avenue. It might not even be a bad thing, although I doubt any of the remaining Tiki would survive.

And, it probably will happen - if it isn't already happening - and if the financing and anchor tenant aren't already signed up.

However, I hope to visit the IMP at least one more time before the change.



 
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Mo-Eye
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 626
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Posted: 2009-04-07 3:55 pm   Permalink

Mongoloid, I agree, that the market would do so much better if they changed the current set up. If they turned it into a site that catered to local arts and crafts (like what Don did before), that place would be amazing and draw a lot more traffic. If each cart was a different local artist, it would turn back into such a great destination, and I think they would make more money in the long run. Right now, the closest a small scale artist can get to selling their items in Waikiki is the zoo fence - nowhere near the average tourist's foot traffic.

But Christiki is right. I remember seeing the architects sketches of the first development plan. It looked exactly like Ala Moana. All the character, and even most of the trees and foliage were gone. Some locals put up a fuss, and the market finally said that they would save the big banyan in the middle, but everything else still looked like a mall.

I had inquired once about renting one of the carts, and it was some ridiculous number like $4000-$5000 a month. Even now, they would rather have empty carts than to lower the rent on them. In the space where the old Trader Vics was (which they tore down a couple years ago and is now a paved lot), there are about a dozen carts there, which are all brand new. Only about 4 of them are being used, with the others empty. At least half of them have never been occupied since they put them there. This is a classic example of the management's thinking. They tore down the Trader Vics building, which had 2 tenants, both of which were successful bars that were always filled, and replaced it with new carts that have been empty since then.

They're just morons!


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Mongoloid
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 25, 2008
Posts: 590
From: Long Beach
Posted: 2009-04-07 4:45 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2009-04-07 15:19, christiki295 wrote:
Quote:

On 2009-04-07 14:55, Mongoloid wrote:

It needs to have some unique authentic stuff for sale, not just the same stuff you can find at Aloha stadium on the weekend for way cheaper. . . . The Thor store is a prime example of the kind of diversification needs to take place.




Funny, but such a viewpoint is exactly what a developer would say, along with we can generate a much higher income by having the chain stores or stores that sell thousand dollar designer bags to female tourists - and they probably would be right. Much more profit would be generated.





Christiki I'm not sure if something got lost in translation, but i have the total opposite viewpoint of a developer that would want to go in there and rip out a historical landmark just to add another Gucci to the Rodeo Drive of Waikiki and perpetuate the already ostentatious Kalakaua. I'm saying profits could continue to be there and there would be a reason for locals and tourists to return to a place that wasn't engulfed by the big money chain stores and offered an actual Hawaiian homegrown atmosphere. The Thor store was an example of getting away from that, and that genre would serve that environment so much better and offer such a unique local experience. I'm just calling it the way i see it as far as cheap trinkets that are made in other counties then stamped Hawaii on them, and every other cart selling the identical item can really give the feel of a fake manufactured experience. I just wish it could recapture the feel of adventure. Disneyland used to have a store called "One of a Kind"
http://www.yesterland.com/oneofakind.html I just envision something along those lines there but Hawaiian Style!!! Along with local artists selling their artwork like Mo-eye said as opposed to being quarantined by the zoo. But thats just in my perfect world!

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Luckydesigns
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 15, 2002
Posts: 2195
From: Costa Mesa
Posted: 2009-04-07 5:32 pm   Permalink

Mongaloid, that's what I was getting at when I posted on that first page back in '03! If you theme it and make it an exciting destination again, the money will come.... Pay tribute to the Hawaii that isn't there anymore and make it updated and fresh! People miss that in Waikiki! I'd like to think they do, anyway....
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Mo-Eye
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 17, 2006
Posts: 626
From: Costa Mesa, CA
Posted: 2009-04-07 5:52 pm   Permalink

Lucky, you are so right.

I was the original manager of the Thor Stor, and it was Thor and I who designed and built the first one. People do want old Hawaii. We would hear that comment everyday. People who weren't even interested in the art or other tiki stuff would tell us that the Thor Stor was the only thing in Waikiki that actually looked Hawaiian.

I remember one guy coming in, looking all confused, and finally saying "I don't know exactly what you're doing or what the hell is goin' on in here, but this is the type of stuff that I want to see in Waikiki."
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THOR's
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 30, 2004
Posts: 595
Posted: 2009-04-08 11:51 pm   Permalink

I definitely have to jump in here and comment. I have to say I am VERY mystified with what Waikiki is today. Max and I were seriously more passionate than any venue in Waikiki in trying to bring back Tiki. We created a Tiki themed space that was unheard of in decades...with our own hands. People would come in and their jaws would drop. I recall one old timer that said, "Oh my Lord...You guys have brought back a feeling that, with a contemporary twist, pays homage to what I recalled 20 or 30 years ago as what i wanted to see in Hawaii". We really tried to do this...and with a lot of passion and sweat. Max's own home lanai was trashed with our creations for the Stor... paint and props we built with quality that would have cost 10's of thousands had we contracted the same elements to be created. Talk about passion. I am surprised Max's girlfriend could tolerate our obsession with making this a cool place at the cost of making huge messes on the porch.

Now the hard facts. We had LOTS of praise...but not enough people SPENDING MONEY. We had a HUGE range of items...from under ten bucks to thousands for an original painting. When the economy shifted and we had to move also cus Mr. Buffet offered the landlords a more attractive lease agreement for his "Margaritaville" venue, it changed our destiny.

The THOR Gallery is what is remaining and I am forced to support what my publishers decided regarding the "numbers game". In this economy..we lose the mid range spender that would have also supported the Thor Stor" Now, we have two types of customer in Waikiki. One is the type that wants everything cheap as hell..and a 15 dollar t-shirt is a huge investment. The other are those who are so well off...this economy effects them little. They have NO problem dropping 10 to 20 thousand on an art investment"...but they want originals and that's all. So for me...the fun is not abundant. I am earning my profits one brush stroke at a time...and the profits from repros or small items are VERY reduced in this economy.

All this said..we see this "Rodeo Drive" thing happening in Waikiki. When I walk along the strip (Kalakaua) the facts are it's predominately Japanese tourists enjoying the high end name brands that are offered at EXPENSIVE, yet FAR better prices than in Japan. So..WaikikI has become a sort of discount luxury name brand outlet experience YOU CAN FLY TO IN 5 OR 6 HRS AND SIT ON THE BEACH IN BETWEEN. But it's not the fault of Japan..it's the greed I think that our Country had encouraged that has caused the demise. Waikiki has SOLD OUT it's loyalty to it's nostalgia and historic icons to buyers offering the good old FAT DOLLAR! Few really seem to care about the things we all do here in the Tiki and nostalgia areas in Hawaii. SAD ..but the numbers of places that have been bulldozed to the red dirt prove this.

Anyway... Not a lot more to say....I will stop venting. Which is all I guess I am doing out of passion for what we all love. Let's not give up though...I hope the Int. Market maintains the nostalgia and flushes the residue and generic junk....so we don't lose the last fragment of yesteryear's Tiki enchantment.


~~~T




 
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Zeta
Grand Member (2 years)  

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 2049
From: Atlantis/Basque Country/Spain/Mexico
Posted: 2009-04-09 3:55 pm   Permalink

From my collection...

Vintage postcard


 
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Zeta
Grand Member (2 years)  

Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 2049
From: Atlantis/Basque Country/Spain/Mexico
Posted: 2009-04-09 3:56 pm   Permalink


Back of the postcard


 
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christiki295
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 09, 2003
Posts: 3818
From: LA-2547 mls east Hawaii &5500 Easter Is
Posted: 2009-04-10 12:29 am   Permalink

Filslash:

Is this where we went?


 
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ZuluMagoo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 26, 2002
Posts: 469
From: Denver, CO
Posted: 2009-04-10 3:59 pm   Permalink

A little architectural history about Waikiki.

Pete Wimberely, who formed the architectural firm of Wimberely & Cook, based in Honolulu was the creative half of the firm. In an 1991 interview he stated "..it was Cook's job to transform his fantasy drawings into reality."


Pete was hired by his friend Donn Beach to design the International Market Place. A fantasy shopping plaza to also include a location for Donn's Beachcomber. Donn and Pete were personal friends and shared the same passion for tropical escapism.



But Pete was also responsible for the design of most of the Polynesian Pop architecture that we all love but is now gone in Hawaii.

He designed the Coco Palms Resort on Kauai




He designed the volcano inspired Cocos Coffee Shop



He designed the Canlis Restaurnt



He designed the Waikikian (Hawaii's Most Beautiful Hotel)



He designed the Kona Hilton on the Big Island (now the Royal Hawaiian)



He designed the Kanapali Beach Resort on Maui





I'm taking a long time to come around and make my point, but when Pete was asked about his design concept, his response was:


"There is commercial value in good architecture. You make places people really enjoy and you make money."


Sums it all up pretty well, and that's from the original architect.

Thanks Pete for all of your wonderful designs and fantastic contributions to Polynesian Pop Architecture!






 
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Dustycajun
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Nov 16, 2007
Posts: 4356
From: Santa Barbara, CA
Posted: 2009-04-10 4:33 pm   Permalink

Zulu,

Thanks for the architecture lesson. Pete was a great designer, I love his buildings.

DC


 
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ron-tiki
Grand Member (first year)  

Joined: Feb 24, 2007
Posts: 390
From: los angeles
Posted: 2009-04-10 5:05 pm   Permalink

what an incredible body of work pete did. to have completed any one of these projects would be a statement but all of these??awesome!!!

 
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