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tiki trader trickery
VonTiki
Grand Member (6 years)  

Joined: May 05, 2004
Posts: 207
From: Ventura, Ca
Posted: 2006-08-14 12:39 am   Permalink

Sorry for your loss, I'd hold a grudge if I were you. It was a nice shirt though, free too. What could I do?

 
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Phillip Roberts
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 1601
From: OAHU/Seattle
Posted: 2006-08-20 8:10 pm   Permalink




[ This Message was edited by: Phillip Roberts 2012-01-21 15:11 ]


 
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tikibars
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Apr 11, 2002
Posts: 2024
From: Aku Hall, Chicago
Posted: 2006-08-21 1:32 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-07-19 00:52, Sneakytiki wrote:
Rattiki, "tiki" IS a word of Polynesian origins and is used among the Marquesans and New Zealanders among others, Hawaii is a more recently settled island and though Hawaiians speak a Polynesian tongue related to the others, they lost the "t" consonant, often replacing it with a "k" sound, thus Tapa in Fiji and Polynesia became "kapa" in Hawaii and Tiki became "ki'i", which is close to kiki, which is what you'd expect it to be with the k replaces t rule, whew! Hope that clears up some thing for somebody, even if that something is only that I am a nerd!



My understanding has always been:

The glottal stop (written as an apostrophe) in Hawaiian, is a 'k' sound in Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui.

The 'k' sound in Hawaiian, is a 't' sound Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui.

Tiki in Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui therefore becomes Ki'i in Hawaiian.

'Tahiti' in Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui becomes 'Kahiki' in Hawaiian!


 
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Dr.TikiMojo
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 26, 2006
Posts: 465
From: Elk Grove, CA
Posted: 2006-08-26 2:06 pm   Permalink

Thankfully I was warned by weirduncletiki about this store's/guy's reputation when we were starting a business.
I've heard a mix of bad and good comments and hope that no one ever mistakes TIKI HUNTER for Tiki Trader!
We've been in the Tiki scene only a couple of years and just now getting off the ground as a Tiki Business.
I will have to remember always walk carefully....you never know whose toes you may be stepping on!
Just remember me as the FRIENDLY GUY IN THE TOP HAT!



 
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Phillip Roberts
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 1601
From: OAHU/Seattle
Posted: 2007-03-22 1:39 pm   Permalink



[ This Message was edited by: Phillip Roberts 2012-01-21 15:12 ]


 
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Sneakytiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 31, 2003
Posts: 1795
From: Boise, Idaho
Posted: 2007-03-24 9:24 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-08-21 13:32, tikibars wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-07-19 00:52, Sneakytiki wrote:
Rattiki, "tiki" IS a word of Polynesian origins and is used among the Marquesans and New Zealanders among others, Hawaii is a more recently settled island and though Hawaiians speak a Polynesian tongue related to the others, they lost the "t" consonant, often replacing it with a "k" sound, thus Tapa in Fiji and Polynesia became "kapa" in Hawaii and Tiki became "ki'i", which is close to kiki, which is what you'd expect it to be with the k replaces t rule, whew! Hope that clears up something for somebody, even if that something is only that I am a nerd!



My understanding has always been:

The glottal stop (written as an apostrophe) in Hawaiian, is a 'k' sound in Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui.

The 'k' sound in Hawaiian, is a 't' sound Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui.

Tiki in Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui therefore becomes Ki'i in Hawaiian.

'Tahiti' in Tahitian / Maori / RapaNui becomes 'Kahiki' in Hawaiian!





Here is a confirmation that my assertion of Ki'i being the Hawaiian name for Tiki is correct:

Ki'i
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In Hawaiian mythology, Ki'i is a creator god. In some other Polynesian languages, the name appears as Tiki.
In M?ori mythology, Tiki is the first man. In traditions from the East Coast of the North Island, the first human is a woman created by T?ne, god of forests. Usually her name is Hine-ahu-one. In other legends, T?ne makes the first man Tiki, and then makes a wife for him. In some West Coast versions, Tiki himself, as a son of Rangi and Papa, creates the first human by mixing his own blood with clay, and T?ne then makes the first woman. Sometimes T?matauenga, the war god, creates Tiki.[1] In another story the first woman is M?rikoriko. Tiki marries her and their daughter is Hine-kau-ataata (White 1887-1891, I:151-152). [2] In some traditions, Tiki is the penis of T?ne (Orbell 1998:178, Tregear 1891:510-511). In fact, Tiki is strongly associated with the origin of the procreative act.[3]
Here is one story of Tiki among the many variants:
Tiki was lonely and craved company. One day, seeing his reflection in a pool, he thought he had found a companion, and dived into the pool to seize it. The image shattered and Tiki was disappointed. He fell asleep and when he awoke he saw the reflection again . He covered the pool with earth and it gave birth to a woman. Tiki lived with her in innocence, until one day the woman was excited by an eel. Her excitement passed to Tiki and the first procreative act resulted (Reed 1963:52).
In M?ori usage, the word 'tiki' is also the name given to large wooden carvings in roughly human shape.

-The term tiki bars has quoted "Kahiki", follows the same "k" replaces "t" rule, Kahiki is the Hawaiian name for a place called Tahiti, from which the second wave of Hawaiian migration came from. You can see that K replaces T, just as I said. The same proves true with Kapa replacing the T in tapa.

As far as glottal stops go, they are never pronounced with a k sound or any other consonant type sound in any language, that is why it's a glottal "stop". They are usually very subtle vowel-ish pauses in mid-word. The Tahitian glottal stop is NOT a "K" sound but a very subtle, easily missed uh-uh type sound. A word in Tahitian with a glottal stop does not mean the same word in Hawaiian will have one. Here is the Tahitian alphabet with proof that their glottal stop is not pronounced as a K sound but as a subtle uh-uh:

Tahitian Alphabet

Typologically, Tahitian word order is VSO (Verb-Subject-Object), which is typical of Polynesian languages. It also features a very small number of phonemes, as further evidence of its linguistic heritage: five vowels and eight consonants not counting the lengthened vowels, diphthongs and the glottal stop.
letter name pronunciation notes
IPA English
approximation French
approximation
a ’? [a], [??] a: butter, ?: father a: patte, ?: pâte
e ’? [e], [e?] e: late, ?: same but longer e: été, ?: il bée
f f? [f] friend as in French becomes bilabial [?] after o and u
h h? [h] house - becomes [?] of shoe after i and before o or u
i ’? [i], [i?] as in machine
either shorter i or longer ? i: vite, ?: cîme may become diphthong ai in some words like rahi
m m? [m] mouse as in French
n n? [n] nap as in French
o ’? [?], [o?] o: not, ?: go o: roc, ?: pôle the short o more like (French) eau if not accentuated
p p? [p] spunge (not aspirated) as in French
r r? [r] - - the rolled 'r' of Scottish and Spanish
t t? [t] stand (not aspirated) as in French
u ’? [u], [u?] u: foot, ?: moo u: cou, ?: moue strong lip rounding
v v? [v] vine as in French becomes bilabial after o and u
’ ’eta [?] uh-uh ils hachent (without liaison) the GLOTTAL STOP *************************************************************************************************************************
The glottal stop or ’eta is a genuine consonant.

The missing second K in the Hawai'ian Ki'i, is replaced by a glottal stop. Once again the example of Tiki turns to Ki'i, the glottal stop is not a cognate to a "K" sound in Tahitian. Actually the T sound in Tahitian is very similar to the k sound in Hawaiian, the T sound in Tahiti is very soft approaching a k already. The glottal stop ki'i (Hawaiian) is just an example of phonetic loss or deterioration. Here it is explained, I put astericks in front of the most pertinent info:

Art. LXIV.—The Track of a Word.
By E. Tregear, F.R.G.S.

[Read before the Wellington Philosophical Society, 4th August, 1886.]

In seeking to attract attention to the immense geographical district over which a word may be in use, and to the very great periods of time during which a word must necessarily have existed, I would confine myself mainly to a record of the facts concerning it collected by modern science, and leave for discussion the points arising from such record. The word I propose to examine is the Maori noun mata, which means “the eye,” or “face.” This word has been often commented upon as one which maintained itself most purely and with little phonetic variation among the dialects spoken in Polynesia; but I believe that the full significance of its very extraordinary diffusion over a large area of the world's surface has not been sufficiently observed or commented on. We will now, with the aid of a map, pass along a track where this word, sometimes in a form exceedingly pure, sometimes corrupted almost beyond recognition, may be found in the spoken languages of mankind at the present moment.

Leaving New Zealand and moving to the northward, we arrive at the Fijian Group, the natives of which, although not Polynesians, retain in their language many Polynesian words, and these in great purity. Here we find it mata, as in Maori; thence journeying eastward to Samoa, it is mata; at Rarotonga and Mangaia (Cook's and Hervey Islands), it is mata; at Tahiti (Society Islands), mata; at Nukuhiva (Marquesas Islands), mata; at Easter Island, mata; at Hawaii (Sandwich Islands), mata. This course has passed through the principal Polynesian islands, and before proceeding further I must digress for a brief space to notice the dialectical change producing the variant k of the Hawaiian. The change from t to k seems at first sight to be peculiar, and to those who have not made the transference of sounds a specialty of study appears almost impossible. But it is by no means confined to the Polynesian; in many languages far more advanced this letter-change occurs: in the Latin, Basculi and Bastuli, Vectones and Vettones; in Danish, mukke, for English “to mutter,” and laktuk (Latin lactuca), for English “lettuce;” in Greek we find the Doric makes ??â for ???, ???o03C2 for ????03C2; the modern French of low-class Canadians gives mékier for métier, moikié for moitié, according to Professor Max Müller,* on whose choice of this word mata as a text I shall have much to say at a future time; but here it is only necessary-
*****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
-to remark that in Polynesian the t to k transfer is exceedingly well marked, and that it is, even now, changing and spoiling the Samoan vernacular speech. The real k of the western dialects is, in Hawaiian, Tahitian, and Samoan, either lost altogether, or replaced by a kind of soft catch of the breath; the k which appears in the Hawaiian being the Maori and Tongan t. Thus, the Hawaiian kai is the Maori tai, the sea; the Maori kai, food, being represented by the Hawaiian ai. The Hawaiian kii, a carved image, is the Maori tiki, the medial k being lost, the t replaced by k.


I hope this settles the manner. I wasn't giving out bogus info. to anyone. I've studied Polynesia fairly extensively. Please take no offense at my re-correction.
Thanks again,
ST


[ This Message was edited by: Sneakytiki 2007-03-24 21:53 ]


 
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Phillip Roberts
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 09, 2003
Posts: 1601
From: OAHU/Seattle
Posted: 2007-11-03 4:55 pm   Permalink




[ This Message was edited by: Phillip Roberts 2012-01-21 15:12 ]


 
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retry
Member

Joined: Sep 02, 2008
Posts: 2
Posted: 2008-09-02 02:46 am   Permalink

Wow I'm so glad I found this thread. I'm a recent immigrant to HI from SF and been a user of http://www.yelp.com/ for many years. I found a fairly vibrant yelp community in HI and have been using it for its intended purpose. Mr. St. James has been fronting on the talk threads there for a long time and giving me a lot of crap. Now I find out not only is he a crooked white sleaze but possibly not even really from here. On there he acts like the expert of all things Hawaii and fills the talk threads with a lot of smug BS!

I encourage any of you interested in deflating that ego to join yelp.com and participate in the hawaii threads.

Regardless, I'm glad to know his true character.

Here's a taste
Quote:
Kimo "Kameraman" K. says:

Had... a nice wardrobe. I hadda shop well. I had a limousine service in Cali back in da 80's. Did some modelling then. catwalk stuff. High end clients in the hills of beverly and Montecito. So had to know clothing and how to wear it well. got so I was a regular at ralph lauren's shop on Rodeo. Saw Tom Selleck there. maria Shriver. her hubby, Ahnold. the governator. Long before he knew the word politics. Drank next to him as the upstairs bar at Lauren's shop.

Loved Battaglia. Hermes. MCM.
used to meet clients at da Polo Lounge. fab place.
Drove them all, met them all. Martin Sheen. Burl Ives. Jim Messina from Logins and messina. Calvin Klein. Kathy Ireland. (regularly. I was her nautilus instructor before she made it big)
another lifetime ago.



He also talks pidgin a lot, but now I think he only speaks 'internet' pidgin after watching those youtube vids.

Anyway I just HAD to register to share. I'm not expecting a personal army. I'll leave you fine tikifolk to your business.


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bananabobs
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 824
Posted: 2008-09-02 9:05 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-09-02 02:46, retry wrote:
Mr. St. James has been fronting on the talk threads there for a long time and giving me a lot of crap. Now I find out not only is he a crooked white sleaze but possibly not even really from here. On there he acts like the expert of all things Hawaii and fills the talk threads with a lot of smug BS!

Regardless, I'm glad to know his true character.



It makes me sad. I met St. James back when he had a store in Ventura, 4 1/2 minuets into the conversation I knew this mans character, or lack thereof. Then to see how he abused and used people on Tiki Central, and STILL he keeps popping up and the topic? His lack of character. What a waste. Potential ruined. A reputation lost. All for the want of character. To see such potential wadded up and flushed down a public toilet.
It makes me sad.
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lanikai
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 490
From: Hawaii
Posted: 2008-09-03 1:56 pm   Permalink

I am hesitant to interrupt the cheery mood and direction of this haters club thread here, but would like to interject; if anyone individually feels slighted by Tiki Trader, I invite them to enter into discourse at my email
hawaiianstyle55@hotmail.com
so that I may try to resolve it. The rest of you bystanders can resume shaking your pitchforks and torches.
Mahalo nui.
and aloha

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malama ki'i kahiko

[ This Message was edited by: lanikai 2008-09-03 13:56 ]


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pappythesailor
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 1564
From: Mass.
Posted: 2008-09-03 2:00 pm   Permalink

You guys got torches and pitchforks? I've been waving this hoe.

 
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Bohemiann
Grand Member (8 years)  

Joined: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 444
From: Sarasota, Fla.
Posted: 2008-09-03 2:48 pm   Permalink

Pappy! Let go of my wife! She ain't no hoe!

[ This Message was edited by: Bohemiann 2008-09-03 14:48 ]


 
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MrBaliHai
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 01, 2002
Posts: 799
Posted: 2008-09-03 3:45 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-09-03 13:56, lanikai wrote:
if anyone individually feels slighted by Tiki Trader, I invite them to enter into discourse at my email...so that I may try to resolve it. The rest of you bystanders can resume shaking your pitchforks and torches.


Based on the total lack of response and cooperation I got the last time I e-mailed you, I'd recommend that folks go straight to the Honolulu Better Business Bureau instead.


 
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lanikai
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 490
From: Hawaii
Posted: 2008-09-04 03:08 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-09-02 02:46, retry wrote: I'm a recent immigrant to HI from SF and been a user of http://www.yelp.com/ for many years. I found a fairly vibrant yelp community in HI and have been using it for its intended purpose. Mr. St. James has been fronting on the talk threads there for a long time and giving me a lot of crap.
He also talks pidgin a lot, but now I think he only speaks 'internet' pidgin after watching those youtube vids.



First thing ya gotta know; don't come on like gangbusters to a local Hawaii chat room dissin everything and everyone. I wasn't the only one givin ya grief. In fact you got called on da carpet by a girl. She bitchslapped ya and called ya a well deserved name after your relentless gittin up on erryone's ass fer no reason. Supwidat, boy!? I just gave ya a bit of the newbie hazin ritual. Which I apologized for as, yea, it may have been ruff. Or didn't show much of that "aloha spirit" that so many haoles demand. (and don't even start on the "oh dear me; he called me haole and it's a racial slur" boosheeyit. Haole is a foreigner to the islands. It's also an attitude. That islanders carry much disdain for.
It don't sit well to ass ume and judge how and why the way some people talk pidgin when and where. Or how long they been in da islands or not. Or to what degree they know and love Hawaiian culture. Same damned haole m.o. ; judge, complain, insult, diss, and assume... "I bet this..." "no doubt that..." "he probably this.." "most likely that..."
Don't start trouble. chill out. Learn sumpin. I know I did when I got pissy here on TC. Yer in Hawaii now. aole pilikia. K den.



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malama ki'i kahiko

[ This Message was edited by: lanikai 2008-09-04 03:16 ]

[ This Message was edited by: lanikai 2008-09-04 12:40 ]


 
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lanikai
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 490
From: Hawaii
Posted: 2008-09-04 03:25 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2008-09-03 15:45, MrBaliHai wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-09-03 13:56, lanikai wrote:
if anyone individually feels slighted by Tiki Trader, I invite them to enter into discourse at my email...so that I may try to resolve it. The rest of you bystanders can resume shaking your pitchforks and torches.


Based on the total lack of response and cooperation I got the last time I e-mailed you, I'd recommend that folks go straight to the Honolulu Better Business Bureau instead.


*sigh*... ah well, I knew I would see this. Justifiable, I suppose.
But does is give ya more satisfaction to be negative than to maybe help me a small degree to work thru this and rectify it? c'mon.


 
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