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Tiki Central Forums Beyond Tiki The Root of Jimmy Buffet Bashing
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The Root of Jimmy Buffet Bashing
Hula Cat
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 171
From: Bellows Falls Vermont
Posted: 2006-08-03 12:18 pm   Permalink

WOW ! page 9...while not a big Buffet fan ("Come Monday" excepted) most of his music I'm not familiar with...... (as overplayed top 40's gets the boot on my dial) .....but let's face it ,warm sand,cool fruity drinks,and sharing some fun are common goals ....there are some asses that have that "frat Idiot"result no matter which camp they get loaded in..... the ignorant "masses" of them should be.......( multiple choice here)....(hey,do they vote?...could explain a few things?)....but musical taste? hell, I always thought J.B. was James Brown !....we do seem have a bit more class in Tiki land with the art SOME of the misic and proprely mixed drinks......the main bitch seems to be the mix of other than tiki in our "sacred" places....My gal and I were in Pittsburgh at the Tiki lounge and while totally taken with the fantastic decor and pleased with reasonably good drinks and service....the music was(at least for our 2 hour stay on a Thursday afternoon) a mix of new alt rock (blasting!.as it should be ) with a bit of classic pop rock...and yeah" THAT " Jimmy Buffet tune..... as the father of two "rock star" sons ....I dealt with it.....and understand many posters' angst.....as Ringo said "I'm a mocker" when asked in "Hard Days Night" if he was a rocker or a mod...It's freedom man...as long as you don't mess with MY TIKI......Aloha and Mahalo
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Coco Loco
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 21, 2004
Posts: 820
From: Exotic Isle of Alameda
Posted: 2006-08-04 08:57 am   Permalink

Look we all need to get along. While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki.

I'll admit, the 3 months I spent in Key West gave way to openness to the JB music mix and culture. It couldn't be helped, he's everywhere the Keys. While not a fan of the music, or non-fan (oddly neutral on it), I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.

Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear.

Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me.


 
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DawnTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 1675
From: next stop Hulaville!
Posted: 2006-08-04 09:58 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-08-04 08:57, Coco Loco wrote:
Look we all need to get along.

Why? I mean it's not like the Crips and the Bloods. Or is it?

Quote:
While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki.


I would like to think that too but from the looks of some of the more recent posts I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play. With more and more people who post their watered down version of "tiki" the more the current definition of popular polynesian/tiki culture will change. Can you say ....Martin Denny who? Does he carve?

I don't have an issue with people loving the Buffet. But why not do it where everyone loves the Buffet?
Like, saaaay...
Buffetworld


Quote:
I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.


Lucky for you you can...




Quote:
Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear.


You said it right there...UNDERSTANDING that the buffet culture pollutes the traditionalist tiki culture, why on earth would you want the two to mix? EVER? EVER? EVER? Sooo at the risk of repeating myself
Although I am certainly no purist in the world of collecting, I gotta say this ...(sorry Hanford)
I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture.
These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture?



Quote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me.


No stoning... just getting tired of beating this dead horse. Let the flames begin...

[ This Message was edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 10:34 ]


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Hakalugi
Site Administrator

Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Posts: 3025
From: Redondo Beach, CA
Posted: 2006-08-04 10:14 am   Permalink

Jimmy Buffet leads to this:


 
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Humuhumu
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 3599
From: San Francisco
Posted: 2006-08-04 10:44 am   Permalink

Blech. I hope that all this gabbing about the guy whose name rhymes with Timmy Tuffet isn't bringing TC up in google searches for the guy.

This is a swell community for like-minded folks who love Polynesian Pop culture. If someone comes in here, thinking that they've found a community of like-minded folks who like something else entirely -- that is, generic Tropical-- there's nothing harsh or criminal about that, it's a simple mistake. I don't take it as a slap on the face.

There has always been the occasional My-Vision-Of-Tropical-Is-A-Mishmash person who has wandered into Tiki Central. The trick is how to communicate to them that, a) there's nothing wrong with that, they're totally entitled to love their neon toucan (**cringe**), but that b) they've stumbled into a community of folks who are here for something specific, Polynesian Pop, and thus, this probably isn't the community for them, because we will make fun of their neon toucan (**cringe**).

I do think it would be totally appropriate to point out to someone when they have posted something that isn't particularly Poly Pop, and why it isn't. It's not an inherently mean-spirited thing to do, and without doing that, what we'll end up with is a community of like-minded folks who like watered-down Tropicalia. Which would be a shame.

Yes, it's being a little exclusive, but not with people -- it's with subject matter. If someone wanted to come here and start talking about bass fishing, it wouldn't be a good fit, because this site isn't about bass fishing. The problem arises because most people out there don't even know what Polynesian Pop is, so they don't know that this site isn't for them -- they just see something tropical and assume they've found the place to post their bar that's full of parrots and surfboards and not much else.

Which brings me to my next point: we were *all* new to Polynesian Pop at some point -- we didn't magically pop out of the womb to the strains of Les Baxter, with a Mystery Bowl for a baptismal font. Lots of folks have come to very much love Polynesian Pop because they learned about it through Tiki Central. If you go back and look at the first things I posted about, I was way off the mark, the stuff I posted about was crap. If I'd been run off, you wouldn't have Critiki, Ooga-Mooga, Humu Kon Tiki, or several thousand photos of tiki spots around the nation.

I don't really know what the answer is, except to feel free to critique the stuff people post (just try to keep to critiquing the stuff, not the people -- don't be a dick about it), and to try to create a community that is friendly to those who are here because they want to learn more. And to lead by example, and post cool stuff from your own collection (which should be a lot easier now with image upload!).

There's my 2 coconuts.

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Tiki-Kate
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 21, 2003
Posts: 1700
From: Yucaipa, CA
Posted: 2006-08-04 11:41 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-08-04 09:58, DawnTiki wrote:
I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play.

I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture.
These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture?



Wow Dawn. Thank you for expressing that so perfectly.

The mere mention of Jimmy Buffet always gets me riled up. Yes, that's my own issue, and maybe I should just deal with it quietly on my own. But it just seems to be getting worse. When we checked into the Caliente Tropics a few weeks ago and Margaritaville was playing in the lobby, I literally wanted to cry. It makes me desperately sad to see the continual watering down of that which I hold near and dear.

I miss the folks who would put the smack down on violently lame posts. Granted some people went a little overboard, but it kept things focused no matter how mean it sounded at the time.

When I first started posting about three years ago, I received the occasional snarky comment, but I knew that my opinion was valid because I lurked before I started posting. I got the lay of the land and knew that I never wanted to say anything so stupid that I would incur the wrath of Bong. I decided back then that I didn't want my posts to be meaningless. Unless I had something important to say or something really cool to show off, I stayed silent.

We all saw the way things changed back in March. Some punk ass puts up 252 meaningless, useless posts and then disappears after six weeks, and this place has never been the same.

The fun that results in meeting through TC seems to be more and more contrived these days. Everything is so ultra planned down to how everyone should spend every minute at an event. Who wants to go to something like that? I don't want any vacation Nazis planning my weekends for me. Let's just hang out. See what happens. If you are really into tiki, the fun will follow. It comes from this commonality of interest and not from some ridiculous, inherent need to party. If you just want to drink margaritas and listen to Buffet or whatever, apparently the world of Buffet does exist. Hang out there. It will probably mean a better time for everyone.



 
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DawnTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 1675
From: next stop Hulaville!
Posted: 2006-08-04 12:55 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-08-04 10:44, Humuhumu wrote:
Which brings me to my next point: we were *all* new to Polynesian Pop at some point -- we didn't magically pop out of the womb to the strains of Les Baxter, with a Mystery Bowl for a baptismal font. Lots of folks have come to very much love Polynesian Pop because they learned about it through Tiki Central. If you go back and look at the first things I posted about, I was way off the mark, the stuff I posted about was crap.



Having a strong opinion on something shouldn't make that person viewed as a dick. I'm sure no one sets out to be a dick when they wake up in the morning. The answer is simple, if you don't want to be treated like one, then don't be one.
Of course most of us know how little we knew when we joined TC. That was the draw to TC for me. Look at this place, with all the fun people and huge amount of information dolts like me now have access to. Paradise!
Obviously anyone can love the Buffet, I'm sure plenty of TC'ers do, but are they shoving their Buffet love down my throat? No. Does the Buffet belong here? No.
It's become too hard to sit here and ignore these stupid posts. I've done it and they aren't going away.
If anything, ignoring them seems to invite more of the same. The more and more parrotheads that feel this is the place to discuss the Buffet, will eventually open TC up as a place to go to to talk about the Buffet.
I am by no means an expert on poly pop or tiki culture, but I do know if people don't want to be treated like they are in the wrong place, trying to drudge up topics that don't belong here.
Then maybe, just maybe, THEY need to make the effort, THEY need to sit back and read, read and read some more. THEY need to take the time to figure out if THEY and their interests belong on this forum before THEY start pushing the Buffet love.

[ This Message was edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 13:01 ]


 
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Humuhumu
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 22, 2002
Posts: 3599
From: San Francisco
Posted: 2006-08-04 1:00 pm   Permalink

Oh, absolutely! Don't ignore them, point it out when something isn't tiki. After all, that's discussion. A strong opinion, and voicing it, doesn't make a person a dick -- sharing that strong opinon in a dicky way makes someone a dick.

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Rev. Griz
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 75
From: Distant Shores of the Great Salt Lake
Posted: 2006-08-04 1:10 pm   Permalink

Sorry for the long quote section, I'm to lazy to edit it down This attitude makes me uncomfortable. I came here with a parrothead background after realizing that there's more to tiki than the "tropical mishmash" someone else mentioned. I have learned a lot here, and I have learned something about what tiki is and isn't. What you wrote, Dawn, comes across to me as being the kind of attitude that will discourage people from coming here and learning so that they DON'T commit the sin of mixing parrothead and tiki. (And really, why that's such a big deal, I don't know. We are very much in danger of over-defining our cliques here like junior high students.)

Furthermore, you talk about real tiki. One can make the argument that there's been no addition to real tiki for nearly a century since the last old traditional carvers in the south seas carved the last traditional god in wood for religious rather than commercial or even artistic reasons.

Wait, you say, I'm talking about the post WWII polynesian pop craze. Okay, well, there are several versions of that. Which is right and which is wrong? Is it only right if the recently carved tiki is a copy of a "real" historic tiki? Is it only right if the tiki mug is a vintage mug from an accepted "real" tiki place? Those two definitions rule out most of the artwork done by the people who post here.

What is "real" tiki, someone explain this to me? Because if you don't, I live in fear of letting my Buffett roots influence a post and getting slapped down by those who have taken it upon themselves to define what tiki is for me.

This web site has a huge potential to educate people in the roots of the generic tropical themes that are so popular these days. If they come here and see people posting basically "you're all wrong but I'm not going to explain why" then those folks will go away and keep doing what you don't want them to. That, of course, is the desire of snobs, to set themselves apart from the unwashed masses through the percieved superiority of secret knowledge, which is secret because it usually doesn't stand up to inspection. The folks here are not snobs, the folks here are much better than that. Let's embrace the mission to educate and convert all those potential "real" tiki fanatics.

Quote:

On 2006-08-04 09:58, DawnTiki wrote:
Quote:

On 2006-08-04 08:57, Coco Loco wrote:
Look we all need to get along.

Why? I mean it's not like the Crips and the Bloods. Or is it?

Quote:
While everyone has their own take on what's Tiki, here at TC we tend to have a common perception of what's Tiki.


I would like to think that too but from the looks of some of the more recent posts I would have to disagree with you on that one. I think the posts by people who appreciate/understand the Polynesian Pop/Tiki culture are becoming farther apart and fewer in numbers while more and more of the Buffet loving Parrotheads seem to be finding TC as a place to play. With more and more people who post their watered down version of "tiki" the more the current definition of popular polynesian/tiki culture will change. Can you say ....Martin Denny who? Does he carve?

I don't have an issue with people loving the Buffet. But why not do it where everyone loves the Buffet?
Like, saaaay... Buffetworld



Quote:
I really do think it would be interesting to hear his point of view on Tiki.


Lucky for you you can...




Quote:
Understanding that the TC perspective doesn't correlate with the JB culture. Understanding the perception that the JB culture pollutes traditionalist tiki, I still really think it would be interesting to hear his perspective. Doesn't mean I have to accept it. It would just be interesting to hear.


You said it right there...UNDERSTANDING that the buffet culture pollutes the traditionalist tiki culture, why on earth would you want the two to mix? EVER? EVER? EVER? Sooo at the risk of repeating myself
Although I am certainly no purist in the world of collecting, I gotta say this ...(sorry Hanford)
I find that people who have the balls to post images of lame, thrown together cracker jack boxes with two or three target tiki's in it is an insult to every true tiki collector and artist on this forum. People who have worked very hard adding to their collections and participating in the tiki community with real, consideration to the tiki culture.
These posts are a slap in the face to people who take their poly pop collections, tiki carvings, home lounges and businesses VERY seriously. Buffet has NOTHING to do with Polynesian Pop. So why should a tiki traditionalist care what the Buffet personally thinks abou the poly pop/tiki culture?



Quote:
Wouldn't it be ironic if there was common ground. Or maybe he doesn't have a point of view and just does. Who knows? Now don't stone me.


No stoning... just getting tired of beating this dead horse. Let the flames begin...

[ This Message was edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 10:34 ]


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Rev. Griz
Dissolute Missionary, Church of Jim Beam Orthodox
Spreading good news by the bottle in the jungles of Utah


 
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The Granite Tiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jul 02, 2005
Posts: 809
From: Nashua, NH
Posted: 2006-08-04 1:13 pm   Permalink

I'm Carl, and I'm a Buffett fan. I'm also a Beatle fan. I don't play Beatle songs in my Tiki Lounge, (unless you consider Ringo's duet with Leon Redbone on "My Little Grass Shack" a Beatle song) and I don't play Buffett in my Tiki Lounge.

Although it could be, and has been argued that Buffett is like training wheels for a burgeoning tikiphile, once you really get into Polynesian Pop, you no longer associate the two. I don't anyway.

I like that Buffett himself is in love with many elements of tikistyle and music, and it influences his work.

As a reminder of my days as a Parrot Head, and the Jimmy Buffett Parties I had in the early 90s, which have been replaced by Tiki parties now that I've matured, I keep a few of his colorful books on a bottom shelf in my lounge.


 
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Tiki-Kate
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 21, 2003
Posts: 1700
From: Yucaipa, CA
Posted: 2006-08-04 1:16 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-08-04 13:10, Rev. Griz wrote:

Furthermore, you talk about real tiki. One can make the argument that there's been no addition to real tiki for nearly a century since the last old traditional carvers in the south seas carved the last traditional god in wood for religious rather than commercial or even artistic reasons.



Ever heard of a little country called New Zealand?


[ Edited by: hanford_lemoore - fixed bb code - 2006-08-04 13:38 ]


 
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Rev. Griz
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 75
From: Distant Shores of the Great Salt Lake
Posted: 2006-08-04 1:22 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-08-04 13:16, Tiki-Kate wrote:

Ever heard of a little country called New Zealand?



Why, yes, yes I have. On a dinner cruise on Lake Tahoe last week I sat at the table with a very nice couple from there who informed me of its existance

Help me interpret your comment, though. Is that your way of saying that they're still carving traditional tikis for religious reasons in New Zealand? If so, is that the "real" tiki then?
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Rev. Griz
Dissolute Missionary, Church of Jim Beam Orthodox
Spreading good news by the bottle in the jungles of Utah


 
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Rev. Griz
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 75
From: Distant Shores of the Great Salt Lake
Posted: 2006-08-04 1:24 pm   Permalink

Quote:

On 2006-08-04 13:13, The Granite Tiki wrote:
I'm Carl, and I'm a Buffett fan.



Everyone: Hello Carl.

Welcome to the 12 step program for Buffaholics
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Rev. Griz
Dissolute Missionary, Church of Jim Beam Orthodox
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DawnTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Sep 01, 2002
Posts: 1675
From: next stop Hulaville!
Posted: 2006-08-04 1:49 pm   Permalink

On 2006-08-04 13:10, Rev. Griz wrote:
Quote:
This attitude makes me uncomfortable. What you wrote, Dawn, comes across to me as being the kind of attitude that will discourage people from coming here and learning so that they DON'T commit the sin of mixing parrothead and tiki. (And really, why that's such a big deal, I don't know.

All the answers are here grasshopper, you can find what you you seek!

Quote:
We are very much in danger of over-defining our cliques here like junior high students.)

Do what you want, mix what you want when you want...but be prepared for some TC folks (like myself) to disagree on the Buffet mixing with their TC. Whats the big deal aren't I allowed my opinion without being compared to being in a junior high school clique? tsk...tsk..tsk...

Quote:
Furthermore, you talk about real tiki.

Nope, No I didn't....

Quote:
One can make the argument that there's been no addition to real tiki for nearly a century since the last old traditional carvers in the south seas carved the last traditional god in wood for religious rather than commercial or even artistic reasons.
Wait, you say, I'm talking about the post WWII polynesian pop craze. Okay, well, there are several versions of that. Which is right and which is wrong? Is it only right if the recently carved tiki is a copy of a "real" historic tiki? Is it only right if the tiki mug is a vintage mug from an accepted "real" tiki place? Those two definitions rule out most of the artwork done by the people who post here.
What is "real" tiki, someone explain this to me?


Not my job, but I will tell you what it's isn't ... BUFFET!

Quote:
Because if you don't, I live in fear of letting my Buffett roots influence a post and getting slapped down by those who have taken it upon themselves to define what tiki is for me.
This web site has a huge potential to educate people in the roots of the generic tropical themes that are so popular these days. If they come here and see people posting basically "you're all wrong but I'm not going to explain why" then


Then READ the forums, it's all here!

Quote:
those folks will go away and keep doing what you don't want them to. That, of course, is the desire of snobs, to set themselves apart from the unwashed masses through the perceived superiority of secret knowledge, which is secret because it usually doesn't stand up to inspection.

If you've read my previous post...I have made no secret that I know less than most people here on poly pop's history or the current polynesian pop revival, but I have taken some time in my history on TC to try to edumacatate myself on the subject and not expect others to spoon feed me the smarts that everyone has access to, it's free for the taking. Just take the time and apply yourself.

Quote:
The folks here are not snobs, the folks here are much better than that. Let's embrace the mission to educate and convert all those potential "real" tiki fanatics.




I have always hoped there is plenty of room here for everyone, and the Buffet argument has been going on as long as I've been visiting TC and I'm sure long, long before. This is a place where I hope we are free to say what we think when we think it without being reduced to name calling, thanks for the "Snob" referral. I've been compared to worse. So there you have it... I still hate Buffet!


[ This Message was edited by: DawnTiki 2006-08-04 14:22 ]


 
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Rev. Griz
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Posts: 75
From: Distant Shores of the Great Salt Lake
Posted: 2006-08-04 2:39 pm   Permalink

Well, Dawn, I'm sorry you took my post personally. Really the only part of it that was directed at you was the part where I said the attitude makes me uncomfortable. I probably did a bad job communicating that the rest was general and not in reference to one person. I don't know why you took the snob comment to heart, because I said in plain black and white that the people here are not snobs, but since you did, let me make sure that you understand that I did not mean that I think you or anyone else here is a snob.
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Dissolute Missionary, Church of Jim Beam Orthodox
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