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Tiki Central Forums Tiki Events California Events TIKI OASIS IV - How was the Event? How was the Resort? How was The REEF?
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TIKI OASIS IV - How was the Event? How was the Resort? How was The REEF?
PolynesianPop
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 2368
From: Corona, Ca
Posted: 2004-05-19 08:13 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-05-19 00:41, Conga Mike wrote:
Post your opinion, don't attack others for theirs !!



Thanks Conga Mike. I agree. I think the challenge here is to argue your side of the coin without turning this thread into a flame war. Regarding the burlesque issue (btw-- I really don't have problem with burlesque!), I just didn't see how it fit into the Tiki genre. But it started a lively debate and my comments had absolutely nothing to do with anything personal against Conga Mike.

If I'm correct, Casey ultimately started this thread to ask us for feedback - publicly. After all, he did title the thread, TIKI OASIS IV - How was the Event? How was the Resort? How was The REEF? Just the act of leaving a comment, positive or negative, shows that we care about this event.

It blows me away how these comments, which are meant to improve the event -- therefore, benefitting everyone's experience, made people so huffy. The comments were not a personal attack (as I've stated now for the third time) to anyone however, some of the comments in defense of the event organizers seem to illustrate otherwise.

I'd like to think that the event organizers would want to put their best foot forward for an event thats got their name and reputation all over it. Right? I know its hard to read negative criticism, but really, how do you improve an event with positive criticsm only?


_________________

Poly-Pop *



He who dies with the most broken mugs WINS!

[ This Message was edited by: PolynesianPop on 2004-05-19 08:46 ]


 
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AquaZombie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 461
From: Thrillville
Posted: 2004-05-19 10:48 am   Permalink

I had no intention of igniting a "flame war". GOD, no. I've been involved in those and they are an utter waste of time. I would prefer to take up the subject in person sometime, if I have to. I didn't realize some of you are so sensitive about your cultural heritage. Frankly, I feel my off-handed reference to our version of "Tiki" as being a "white thing" (a snide generality at best, since my wife is the Tiki Goddess around here, and she's Mexican-Navajo, and CongaMike is Greek), was taken out of context, misconstrued and caused us to stray off Topic, not to mention my original point, which is NO ONE here can define Tiki in the strict sense, or hold anyone to any particular definition, since it's not only "impure" in its original 50s variation, but we've also brought it into the 21st Century, with its own influences. Hence: Tiki Oasis will never please everyone. The borders of definition are too fluid.

This is turning into a What Is Tiki and What Isn't Forum, and that's my fault. That's another thread I have no desire to start because I've said my peace on the topic and am frankly tired of it already.

I know one thing: sitting around bickering about what is Tiki and What Isn't, and What is White Culture (Punk, Country, Rockabilly, "Frasier") and What Ain't (Hip Hop, Jazz, Blues, Polynesian pagan religions, etc) is definitely NOT Tiki, in my book. Sorry I even went there. I guess I was a bit personally pissed Baby Doe felt the need to defend herself at all. I also put on big events and know what kind of pressure that entails, plus she is a good friend of mine, so maybe I was overly defensive. And I do not mean to dis Poly Pop or anyone else for expressing their views, either. No hard feelings here. I always welcome private corresponense if anyone feels the need to pick this thead up elsewhere.

It's Mai Tai Time. Peace and aloha from Thrillville.

[ This Message was edited by: AquaZombie on 2004-05-19 10:49 ]


 
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floratina
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 998
From: West Los Angeles
Posted: 2004-05-19 1:22 pm   Permalink



[ This Message was edited by: floratina on 2004-05-19 13:25 ]


 
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martiki
Official Mixologist

Joined: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 3058
From: http://www.smugglerscovesf.com
Posted: 2004-05-19 2:07 pm   Permalink

Well, this was a great thread for a while. Sad to see it has been experiencing "mission creep" to use a crappy buzz word. Since the original topic is long gone, I was going to lock this, but I won't. Instead, let me just nudge everyone back on track.

No more apologies.
No more explanations.
No more attacks.
No more weirdness.

Post here only if you want to share your Oasis experiences, post some pictures of the event, and offer some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, suggestions, or ideas for future Oasis's (Oasees? Oasississes?).

You know, like the first 10 or so pages.


 
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Tiki_Bong
Deleted

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 0
Posted: 2004-05-19 2:27 pm   Permalink

You know, I'm a type-A hyper mo-fo in my normal mode (no way!), but when I'm heading out to Tiki Oasis I always try to force myself to remember that it's going to be somewhat on 'Hawaii time'. That means things are going to be a bit loose in the organizational department. And that's OK.

Yeah, you may have to plan ahead or wait for ice, you may have to circle the lot a few times to get a parking spot, you may experience something you didn't think was going to happen, but that's OK.

When I was planning the Inter'l Tiki Day gig at Sam's I did the best I could for someone only doing it for fun (Tiki Oasis is a money maker - do the math). But it was inevitable that some folks would start to whine about this or that - so I cancelled it. Let's not let that happen to Tiki Oasis.

Now, big group sex, er... I mean hug!
_________________
"I'm ashamed to be here, but not too ashamed to leave..."


    
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Atomic Cocktail
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 25, 2002
Posts: 925
From: Land O' The Next Big One-L.A.
Posted: 2004-05-19 10:25 pm   Permalink

AquaZombie,

No one is disputing that the Mid-Century Tiki movement had racist aspects to it or even that it is an appropriation of Polynesian Culture. One can look at the works of Guy Huze or William M. Kay for the former. You also cite some good examples. If you want to start a post dealing with racism in the Tiki Movement please do so with all possible vigor. I whole heartedly approve.

What I disagree with are your following statements:

"I didn't know white people had their own culture!" she exclaimed. "They don't - that's the point," I said..."

Just remove "White" and add, for example, "Filipino", "Mexican", "Korean" or "Persian". Would you consider that racist? I sure would. So what makes using "White" any different? Nothing at all. Your ethnicity, your wife's ethnicity, my ethnicity and Conga Mike's ethnicity are irrelevant. It does not matter who it comes from or to whom it is directed; Racism is hateful and divisive. You can claim it is humor (though I fail to see the humor in it). It is mean-spirited. Additionally, it's generality makes it even more demeaning. It is stereotyping at it's worst. I think Herman Melville, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Cole Porter, Sylvia Plath, Harold Pinter, Aaron Copeland and John Updike, (just to name a random few) would also take exception.

What I find ironic is that Polynesian Pop makes a few suggestions on how to improve a PARTY, and a certain group acts as if the very GODS themselves have been insulted! In fact, they should swoop down from the airy perch on Olympus and smite him with all their mighty powers. Yet, one of their group makes a blatant racist statement and the tepid response is, "It's just his opinion" and "Your being too sensitive." Am I the only one who finds this wrong?

And talk about being sensitive: Brother, you are ready to quit after this one thread! This is a public forum and if you make such bold statements you had better be ready to defend them! If you can't take the heat you had better leave, because I've seen a lot worse over a lot less on Tiki Central.

If you leave perhaps the board will be improved, perhaps it will be worse. I cannot tell as I am not a fortune teller. I would like to think it would be the latter. It is up to you.

I know this post goes against what Martiki has asked us not to do, and will most likely lead to a locking of this thread. For that I most humbly apologize to him, to Hanford and the board as a whole as it is not my intention. I also apologize for going so far off topic. However, I feel such statements cannot go unanswered.


 
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CaseyJPS
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: 184
From: Palm Springs
Posted: 2004-05-19 10:52 pm   Permalink

Aloha!

Do I have to stop this car? Turn around and put your seatbelts on, NOW!

Oh, I almost forgot......Wait 'til your father gets home!

I would like to add a point, if you all don't mind. I want everyone to think about this (after counting to 20)...are more controls and structure fitting for this easy-going and laid-back group? We can make the whole event like signing a car rental contract (isn't our registration form enough?), but I've always sensed that this event is really about hanging-out, relaxing, and simply going-with-the-flow.

I truly trust that you are all being VERY SINCERE AND HAVE THE BEST INTEREST OF THE GROUP IN MIND, when you are commenting. Thank you all for taking the time to help with the improvements.

Mahalo!


 
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vintagegirl
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 12, 2002
Posts: 542
From: Los Angeles
Posted: 2004-05-19 11:16 pm   Permalink

I invited some friends of mine who are not on TC, but do like Tiki/Lounge stuff. Here's what my friend Jill had to say about the event:

Thanks for letting me know about it! Your Tiki Central friends were all so nice, it was
refreshing to meet friendly people from the LA area. You frequent enough
bars and clubs, and you start to wonder if everyone wanders around with
their noses in the air!


 
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real kamaaina
Member

Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 5
Posted: 2004-05-20 12:47 am   Permalink

as a longtime reader and never poster, i had to make a post. i think most of you totally missed the aquazombie guy's point. as someone who grew up on oahu my whole life, i have to agree with him. he was being lighthearted, not being racist. jeesus. i thought it was kinda funny. in hawaii, we are constantly making fun of other cultures; its how we survive on an island with so many other ethnic backrounds. ask anybody from hawaii to tell you a portagee joke. we do it across the board, nobody gets left out. its part of the spirit of aloha, believe it or not. it is the most un-pc place on earth, and i love it for that. i love the fact that the people of hawaii can make fun of each other and themselves. how else are you going to live on an island? anyway, the tiki oasis is always a blast, and i had a great time, my only bummers was that i couldnt see the screen, as it was too small. i miss the large sheet and hawaiian eye. that needs to come back. that and i would love to hear exotica poolside the whole time. speakers poolside, im sure we could get volunteer djs poolside all day . not back there with the vendors. other than that, carry on! it was a great time as usual. i look forward to next year. aloha nui loa...

 
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AquaZombie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 461
From: Thrillville
Posted: 2004-05-20 11:52 am   Permalink

I am not going to apologize or explain anything again - in deference to Martiki's wishes, and also because I have nothing to defend, since I know I am not a racist and do not feel the need to prove that to anyone - but I find it odd no one took note of the fact that in the quote, which I included to illustrate the difficulty in explaining our Tiki thing to "outsiders," the Asian lady said to MY ruddy face, without blinking, "I didn't know white people had their own culture," and my reponse, without flinching, was a simple joke we both laughed at. I didn't feel the urge to launch into a tirade defending Andy Griffith. Then she realized that a convention celebrating Polynesia by non-Polynesians was never meant to be taken that seriously anyway.Most of the music I love is Lounge which is "whiter" than Liberace's teeth, for God's sake.

I was going to respond snidely by saying "Hey, I couldn't replace the world 'white' with Mexican or Filipino in that sentence, because they HAVE a culture!" But I won't.
Might hit some thin skinnned folks the wrong way.

This reminds me of the "Seinfeld" episode where Jerry's dentist converts to Judism and starts making all these Jewish cracks to him as well as Catholic jokes, since he feels he's entitled to make 'em now that he is a Jewish ex-Catholic. Jerry takes his grief to a priest:

Jerry: "I think he converted strictly for the Jewish jokes!"

Priest: "And this offends you as a Jewish person?"

Jerry: "No! It offends me as a comedian!"

Then Kramer accuses Jerry of being a "rabid anti-dentite":

Kramer: "Next you'll be saying they (dentists) should have their own schools!"

Jerry: "But they DO have their own schools!"

As a white person (by birth, not conversion) I reserve the right to poke fun at my own people sometimes, and God knows, they deserve it. Most faces on American TV and movies are White, (and sadly, their shows suck, too), so I don't see how anyone would think I somehow missed the fact we dominate the Culture, therefore my "joke" was an ironic riff on this fact (and also the fact that a lot of the stuff we dig is derived from other cultures, but so what, I promote the mingling of cultures - it's the eventual way to World Peace. Jeez, I married a Mexican-Navajo, isn't that "pennance" enough?). I just won't make fun of us whiteys around here again because it is never my intention to offend anyone, ever. That is not how I get my kicks.

I never said I was leaving the board, by the way, just this tired topic. Aloha.


 
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tiki mick
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 398
From: Socal
Posted: 2004-05-20 12:11 pm   Permalink

Personally, I was not offended by aqua zombie at all! His (or her) post just sounded a little too much like that "I've eaten my own mana in tropical jungles in the Amazon" post a few months back, where the one dude (or dude-ess) came off as being more tiki then thou, and insulted Poly-pop!!!

But I doubt Aqua zombie had the same sentiment in mind, and I agree with some of the statements he/she made..about how we sort ofappropriated tiki culture from overseas....but imitation is flattery, right?

So I don't feel guilt of much besides having a better time then most of my non-tiki friends on mother's day! It was a blast!!


 
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AquaZombie
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 01, 2003
Posts: 461
From: Thrillville
Posted: 2004-05-20 12:26 pm   Permalink

"He/She?" I said I was married to the Tiki Goddess, are you inferring I'm a lesbian now? Must have been that pink robe I wore at Oasis....

Anyway, one last aside to real kamaaina:

Mahalo for your post. What I miss most about the islands - and which you can't really get in Palm Springs, though they're nice too - is the innate warmth and good nature of the people, even when they gently made fun of me for asking where the local "tiki bar" was. To me, that light heartedness IS the spirit and allure of "Aloha," along with the beautiful scenery, and why I would love to live there someday, despite the fact not a single native islander I encountered on either Kauai or Oahu had ever even HEARD the names "Martin Denny" or "Arthur Lyman."


 
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tiki mick
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Aug 11, 2003
Posts: 398
From: Socal
Posted: 2004-05-20 12:40 pm   Permalink

Hi aqua...no, I read your post too quick..truth is, I never know for sure if the posters are male or female..so to be polite, I say "he or she"

I forgot that "he/she" is for transgendered personel only!! ha ha!


 
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boingo
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jul 01, 2003
Posts: 13
From: San Francisco
Posted: 2004-05-20 1:57 pm   Permalink

Quote:

. in hawaii, we are constantly making fun of other cultures; it is the most un-pc place on earth, and i love it for that. i love the fact that the people of hawaii can make fun of each other and themselves.



It's time the mainland Americans followed suit. This PC thing is getting way outta hand!! I work in Berkeley and deal with it on a daily basis.
Talking of, Atomic Cocktail, you should move to Berkeley. You'll be welcomed with open arms !!


 
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floratina
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 998
From: West Los Angeles
Posted: 2004-05-20 2:19 pm   Permalink

Boingo, you don't know Atomic Cocktail...

PC at it's heart is mainly about bashing "Whitey". That's it's main purpose. Bash "Whitey" and you can prove that you're "down with the people"!! There's no consequences - you even get to mock him when he points out the double standard and hypocracy.



 
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