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Tiki Central Forums Collecting Tiki Von Franco/Crazy Al Chalice
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Von Franco/Crazy Al Chalice
foamy
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 590
From: The Land of Pleasant Living
Posted: 2004-07-12 8:55 pm   Permalink

I like Tiki-Toa. I go to yard sales, church sales, flea markets, etcetera. "Buyer/sellers" advance on the above mentioned like a swarm of locusts. They are generally pushy, rude, unprincipaled people. Yeah, it's a way to make a living, but I for one, like to lay my head on my pillow at night and know that I've been a decent human being. The above mentioned are, in my opinion, a lower life form.

 
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RIBEERGUY
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 11
Posted: 2004-07-12 9:01 pm   Permalink

"....but also a proven INVESTMENT."

Being a pretty involved collector for the past 27 years ago in things other than tiki (I helped publish a book on Brewery advertising a few years back, most of our collection is turn of the century to the 1950s), I would like to say that most "limited editions" have never proven to be much of an "investment" if they are specifically made for a collector's market.

Collect "limited editions" if you love em, but don't be fooled that they're going to put your kids through school. It didn't work for beer cans, teddy bears, beanie babies,ball cards, etc. At some point in time, people are going to wake up to the fact that another "limited edition" will be out tomorrow as long as there is a market for it. That's what is called a "trend", which some have found to be pretty profitable. The problem is that at some point in time there becomes a glut in the market for this stuff. Worse yet, people are going to wake up to the fact that this heroine they are being offered never goes away and they burn out from the hobby. Trust me, it's happened with many other collectibles.

That being said, I like some of my Shag stuff, but I like it because it looks great, not because it's going to be worth a lot in the future (It won't).

To be perfectly honest, paying $350 bucks for something that came out last week is ridiculous.

Trust me, invest in something with a little age to, especially if it was originally made to be thrown away, if it's money you're interested in.

Wish I took High School ceramics more seriously. Think of the money I could have made as long as I came up with a fancy name behind it.

Then again, that's only my opinion. Take it for whatever it's worth. That, and $350 bucks will buy ya an expensive cup of coffee in a chalise that may be still hot out of the oven. But as P.T. Barnum once said (although I heard that he never really did say it)......

Greg


Gotta get back to ebay now <G>

Greg


 
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McDougall
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 489
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posted: 2004-07-12 9:03 pm   Permalink

"To me the Chalice is kind of truly the Holy Grail now in a way, because of how scarce it is"

I'm with you in wanting this mug badly TT. But consider why it is so scarce? Was it produced in 50 because it could only be? If ebay did not exist would the edition still have been 50? You lavish praise on the creaters (for good reason!) and insult the sellers, but it is the creators who made this "Limited Edition" work which often fuels the ebay Tiki mug market, I think you should consider.


 
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MakeDaMug
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 28, 2002
Posts: 1182
From: behind a cluttered desk
Posted: 2004-07-12 9:58 pm   Permalink

Quote:

Wish I took High School ceramics more seriously. Think of the money I could have made as long as I came up with a fancy name behind it.
Greg

Gotta get back to ebay now <G>

Greg


Well, since our name isn't that Fancy but more kind of a Tiki "podunk" name, he can't mean us but if this guy only knew what it takes to make it happen in any manufacturing endeavor (especially that of ceramics w/offshore competition knock-offs arriving daily), this statement wouldn't have come off as so lame. True for any company that succeeds - and we hope to succeed... some day I hope...I hope!
Mahaloz,
Holden


 
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mexatiki
Tiki Centralite

Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 83
From: The South Bay
Posted: 2004-07-12 10:34 pm   Permalink

Ribeerguy, I have dealt in vintage Tiki, Hawaiiana, Surf & Skate for the last 12 years and I like to think I have done it well...I think your opinion and yes it is your opinion that these things will not be worth much. But I have to disagree...there is value in what makes someone feel good and if buying a 100.00 chalise makes someone feel good then so be it...it is worth more than they paid for it...no some of these items will not put kids through college but they have merit...and they have value...and you dont have to like it but these limited edition will go up in value...we are not talking about random "COLLECTIBLES" put out by Time Life or the US Mint...we are talking about excellent pieces of Modern Art...the Tiki Farm, Munktiki, Tiki Diablo etc etc limited editions have their proud place in collections...
If you are a dealer/collector you know that some limited editions do have their place..
Holden I am proud to own one and have it in my home.


 
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MachTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 16, 2004
Posts: 1364
From: San Diego, CA
Posted: 2004-07-12 10:38 pm   Permalink

Holden! Great to see you here. We're all looking forward to the new mugs & artists.
______________


[ This Message was edited by: MachTiki on 2004-07-13 07:14 ]


 
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RIBEERGUY
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 11
Posted: 2004-07-13 05:23 am   Permalink

Guys,

If you read my post again, I'm not saying there's not a place for limited editions. I have some and enjoy them. What I was commenting on was the "for investment" statement.

What I'm saying is that the original ebay ad ran something "for investment" which some others also commented on. All I'm saying is that at some time there will be a point where a value hits it's peak due to supply and demand. The more "limited editions" that hit the market, the less there will be a demand for them.

I'm not criticizing the talents of the manufacturers, or the items themselves.

And yes, I think it's crazy paying $350 for something sold for $100 a week earlier.

No offense meant by my post, honest.

greg


 
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TNTiki
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 464
From: Knoxville, TN
Posted: 2004-07-13 11:11 am   Permalink



[ This Message was edited by: TNTiki on 2004-11-06 16:49 ]


 
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bananabobs
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 824
Posted: 2004-07-14 12:03 am   Permalink

Okay, I make 50 limited edition mugs, cool as they may be they aint no "Shag mug" I sell them for $25.00 and it takes months to sell. But there is the chance that they are hits and in the rush to own mugs people buy extra, kick the price way up and put them on E-bay the same day, I still only got $25.00 a mug, Oh but wait...I'm gonna get bank for the next edition eh? I don't really care for Picasco's stuff, (all in all) but I willingly paid thousands for a litho, I have a better appreciation for his work owning a piece and because it was difficult to obtain (spell that $$$) It helped my appreciation. All of that to say this, The mugs on E-bay did NO dis-service to the artists, even if it was not the coolest mug ever, the fury over it has increased the value and "have to have" Does that make sense?
_________________


 
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Tiki-Toa
Tiki Socialite

Joined: May 30, 2004
Posts: 1012
From: Somewhere on Planet Tiki
Posted: 2004-07-14 12:13 am   Permalink

Quote:

On 2004-07-14 00:03, bananabobs wrote:
The mugs on E-bay did NO dis-service to the artists, even if it was not the coolest mug ever, the fury over it has increased the value and "have to have" Does that make sense?



BBobs, you are correct in saying that ebay does no dis-service to the artist, in some ways it may do them a service if you consider that some times a person may find an item by an artist that they did not know that either ever existed.
But that said. The consumer sets the value, period. A ebayer can "try" and sell it for what he believes is market value, bascially he is estimating what he thinks some guy will pay, and yes if some guy wants it bad enough well maybe he will pay it. But if not I guess he will either lower his price or be stuck with a very expensive drinking device that looks neat.
_________________
May the aloha spirit be with you in all that you do.

Toa


 
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tikijunkie
Member

Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Posts: 1
Posted: 2004-07-14 12:45 pm   Permalink

Aloha everyone!!!

I've read what you are all upset about, and thought I'd add my 2 cents. I'm really thankful for ebay, and have found mugs and TIKI that I would have never been able to find otherwise. I don't always agree with what they go for, but when people are willing to bid/pay for it you can't just blame the seller. I have bought lot's of TIKI on ebay in the past. I have also sold some & I think it's a great place (most of the time) for all of us to find stuff for our addictions

Have fun!!!!

p.s. ebay is also a great way for promoting all these GREAT ARTISTS! Von Franco/Crazy Al/Bamboo Ben & Tiki Farm will only benefit from all of this publicity. Look at how much we are talking about them. Next year they will be even more popular and they deserve all of it. They've been doing this for awhile. Unlike some bandwagon jumpers that are popping up!

MAHLO


 
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RIBEERGUY
Tiki Centralite

Joined: Jun 15, 2004
Posts: 11
Posted: 2004-07-15 5:00 pm   Permalink

By the way, if anyone hasn't followed up on the auctions, neither sold.

 
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ErichTroudt
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 27, 2002
Posts: 452
From: SoCal
Posted: 2004-07-16 01:00 am   Permalink

Actually, only one didn't sell as of yet.

One didn't sell at the price of $233.50 (over twice its original price) Because it didn't meet reserve.

The $350 has no bids with 2+ days to go.

The 3rd one has 2+ days to go and is currently bid up to $228.01

The first one didn't sell because it wasn't an "viewed as an investment" or because of lack of interest (it had 11 bids), it didn't sell because the owner appeared to be holding out for big money.

Personally, I see Ebay sales as getting recognition for the artists, allowing people who couldn't be at the event a chance to receive one, and perhaps get the mug in collectors hands that appreciate it as art, investment, and a prized piece to their collection.



 
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Trader Woody
Tiki Socialite

Joined: Mar 25, 2002
Posts: 2301
From: Tiki Manor, Forest of Bowland,UK
Posted: 2004-07-17 10:00 am   Permalink

Sheesh, I just wish they would make more than 50.

Personally, I think that the ideal for artists/manufacturers is to do a limited run for the really anal collectors, and a less limited run that enables the object to be available to those that really want it but either can't get to the sale event or don't want to jump through hoops to get said object. By all means, create a special signed edition of 50/100 to be sold only to those that are there on the day, but why not make another 200 less exclusive versions for those that love the design, but are not dealers or those that can make it on the night?

Surely the artist would prefer to see their work go out to a larger appreciative audience than a motley contingent of eBay profiteers and lunatics with sleeping bags and expensive mug collections? And the manufacturers certainly know the cost of making them goes down the more they make. Surely this benefits everyone?

Trader Woody


 
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